News report: At King's Cross, train details will be deleted from departure boards three minutes before they leave.

[sheff1]

And this is exactly why the policy is a good idea - to prevent latecomers from running onto the platform just as the train is departing, potentially causing a safety risk.

So preventing someone delayed through no fault of their own catching a train which doesn't actually leave for 5 mins and then charging for a new ticket is a good idea - sums up the 'GB railway attitude' nicely.

In the case quoted the passenger arrived on the platform just as the train was departing, whereas if the train had been displayed they would have arrived some mins before departure.

 

[Horizon22]

Will this extend to the displays at individual platforms? I'm sure I'm not the only person who has seen on the main departure board which platform my train is leaving from, but by the time I've gone through the barriers it has either slipped my mind or I am doubting myself. To have no confirmation at the individual platforms would be very unhelpful.

It would do, yes.

So preventing someone delayed through no fault of their own catching a train which doesn't actually leave for 5 mins and then charging for a new ticket is a good idea - sums up the 'GB railway attitude' nicely.

But you could say that now? If you miss your connection because your bus / tube is late and you have an standalone Advance ticket and miss your booked train then that's unfortunate but it is what it is. And when did your "5 minutes" come from? This is a 1 minute change.

 

[357]

delayed through no fault of their own

If it's the railways fault they can get the next train anyway.

If it's not the railways fault, ****e happens sometimes. I didn't insist on a free transfer to the next flight from Warsaw because my coach from Kyiv was delayed recently. I took the hit, told work I need emergency leave, and because my trip wasn't insured accepted the fact I need to swallow the cost.

 

[43066]

So preventing someone delayed through no fault of their own catching a train which doesn't actually leave for 5 mins and then charging for a new ticket is a good idea - sums up the 'GB railway attitude' nicely.

The person said they’d arrived at the station at the train’s departure time, so would have missed the train anyway had it departed on time.

As for attitude, it’s easy to be cavalier about these issues when you haven’t had the experience of watching latecomers almost fall in front of the train you’re driving out of Nottingham station….

 

[Discuss223]

As a former Station Manager, anything that helps to ensure that passengers present themselves on the platform (and preferably by the right coach in these days of reservations) in comfortable time is a good thing.

At some stations, this is possible. At King's Cross, it's quite late when the Grand Central services are announced. Blackpool North doesn't allow customers to board until less than ten minutes before departure.

King's Cross station also has ticket barriers, so if one does make one's way on to the platform early, there won't be much in the way of benches/toilets or other amenities whilst waiting for the train to start boarding.

 

[MikeWM]

Not sure I’ve ever heard a “last call” at a station. On trains in the good old days when there were restaurant cars, but that’s a different matter.

A couple of years back, GA's automated announcements at origin stations 3 minutes before the departure time explicitly said 'this is the last call for the nnnn service to yyyy'.

It irritated me every time I heard it, because a train isn't a plane.

Fortunately they stopped using that specific language recently - they still do an announcement 3 minutes before departure, but they don't annouce it as a 'last call' anymore.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I don’t really see the relevance of school start times

Or pickup times. If you cannot do whatever you are doing before a particular time not of your choosing, and then have to catch a train on a 2tph or even 1tph frequency, you may have only minutes in your margin.

IF I left work at the very moment core time ended, and IF the tube and train were running to time, I could just scramble on board the train with a few seconds to spare, and get to school before after-school club closed.
And if you are late collecting the children too often they wouldn't let you use the club any more - the staff there have homes and family commitments too.

 

[Horizon22]

Blackpool North doesn't allow customers to board until less than ten minutes before departure.

We shouldn't be using Blackpool North as the basis for anything!

A couple of years back, GA's automated announcements at origin stations 3 minutes before the departure time explicitly said 'this is the last call for the nnnn service to yyyy'.

It irritated me every time I heard it, because a train isn't a plane.

Fortunately they stopped using that specific language recently - they still do an announcement 3 minutes before departure, but they don't annouce it as a 'last call' anymore.

They can also be done manually by a station/information controller. You might here the phrase with an announcement: "Platform A for the XX:XX service to Y...which is ready to leave".

 

[Failed Unit]

The story has made it to ITV London, I need to see if the train disappears from the platform boards as well.

Not well received. I am not sure why they are doing it on Great Northern services, more so on LNER. But on Great Northern you get more instances where the service is slightly late out, such as my example yesterday on the 1227.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can't agree with that. The 1300 is at the platform, but it is 1315 and it hasn't departed due to a points failure and the doors are unlocked. Why should someone who has just arrived for the 1330 not be allowed to board (assuming their ticket is valid of course).

That was quite obviously not what I meant. Clearly if a train is late it can be boarded later than the published time and nobody is suggesting otherwise.

 

[Failed Unit]

We shouldn't be using Blackpool North as the basis for anything!



They can also be done manually by a station/information controller. You might here the phrase with an announcement: "Platform A for the XX:XX service to Y...which is ready to leave".

That use to be the case a Kings Cross, again hardened commuter - I am not sure if they use it now. The bell is back however, it does encourage people to run.

 

[MikeWM]

They can also be done manually by a station/information controller. You might here the phrase with an announcement: "Platform A for the XX:XX service to Y...which is ready to leave".

They may say something along those lines now, but whatever they do say, the automated ones have definitely changed to something that doesn't explicitly say 'last call'. I don't tend to remember the details of announcements unless they irritate me - the 'last call' ones did, I was pleased when they stopped

 

[jon0844]

A couple of years back, GA's automated announcements at origin stations 3 minutes before the departure time explicitly said 'this is the last call for the nnnn service to yyyy'.

It irritated me every time I heard it, because a train isn't a plane.

Fortunately they stopped using that specific language recently - they still do an announcement 3 minutes before departure, but they don't annouce it as a 'last call' anymore.

King's Cross does have the 'please join the train now as it is ready to leave' message, but I'm not sure exactly how many minutes before this is played.

 

[sh24]

As a proportion vanishingly few passengers use RTT, it's really only rail enthusiasts and staff who even know it exists.

I have had 2 conversations this week with people who are very normal, both of whom are regular users of RTT. Neither had heard of Traksy...but now they do!

 

[357]

At King's Cross, it's quite late when the Grand Central services are announced.

The Senior Conductor calls the Station Information Controller to say ready for boarding. The call shouldn't ever be less than ten minutes before and is frequently 15 or more minutes before.

 

[800001]

King's Cross does have the 'please join the train now as it is ready to leave' message, but I'm not sure exactly how many minutes before this is played.

3 minutes before departure I believe.

 

[infobleep]

At Waterloo, the boards at the platform ends (beyond the gate line) display the information until the train departs, at least on the suburbans. I know the departure times exactly, so if the service has disappeared from the main board then I just go through the nearest barrier to platforms 1-5 and then walk along until I see my service, and jump on at the last door just before departure.

I'm not certain if they stayed on in the subway. It's some years now since I did this.

That was quite obviously not what I meant. Clearly if a train is late it can be boarded later than the published time and nobody is suggesting otherwise.

But I have the examples at London Waterloo where a 6 minute late train isn't shown due to it being shown as on time.

This would be in the morning and the train wouldn't be packed solid either.

 

[Hadlow Road]

The Senior Conductor calls the Station Information Controller to say ready for boarding. The call shouldn't ever be less than ten minutes before and is frequently 15 or more minutes before.

Fifteen minutes at Euston would be a joy - and so much more comfortable (safer?).

 

[Krokodil]

Blackpool North doesn't allow customers to board until less than ten minutes before departure.

We shouldn't be using Blackpool North as the basis for anything!

Except for 'how not to do things'. Mind you, in the above example they seem to be more generous than certain other stations can be.

3 minutes before departure I believe.

I've heard that announcement go off at Chester on the dot of departure time. Clearly the system needs work. No stampedes caused though.

 

[jon0844]

3 minutes before departure I believe.

I wonder if they've made it 4 or 5 minutes or scrapped it, as it's not a good idea to announce at the same time you remove the train from the boards.

 

[bramling]

I am not sure if they still even display them (show how little attention I pay to the boards)

I checked tonight, no St Pancras departures shown. Also, the final PA is made at 3 minutes for GN services.

 

[12LDA28C]

The UK rail industry doesn't particularly want to attract people to rail; at busy times the trains on many routes are full and the Government doesn't want to pay for additional capacity, so we do things like price people off, and deter them in other ways.

The market share of rail in the UK is very much lower than certain other countries, as it's more 'convenient' for it to be kept that way. As there is insufficient capacity for the demand, people who support the anti-passenger sentiment can point to "full trains" as evidence that their policies are correct, while ignoring the fact that in sensible countries the capacity would increase to match demand.

Can you provide evidence of this claim? I can assure you that the UK rail industry would very much like to attract more people to rail but are prevented from doing so by the actions of Government, particularly the DfT, as I’m sure you’re aware. It’s well known that the Treasury’s refusal to pay for more stock (or even existing stock in some cases) has led to severe overcrowding on many parts of the network which cannot be blamed on the rail industry itself. As you rightly say though, this is hardly ‘sensible’.

 

[yorkie]

Can you provide evidence of this claim? I can assure you that the UK rail industry would very much like to attract more people to rail but are prevented from doing so by the actions of Government, particularly the DfT, as I’m sure you’re aware. It’s well known that the Treasury’s refusal to pay for more stock (or even existing stock in some cases) has led to severe overcrowding on many parts of the network which cannot be blamed on the rail industry itself. As you rightly say though, this is hardly ‘sensible’.

I'm referring to the industry as a whole, i.e. including the DfT, and not attributing blame to any particular company or group.

 

[urbophile]

people don’t seem to bother to walk quickly nowadays also.

Some people can't.

 

[12LDA28C]

I'm referring to the industry as a whole, i.e. including the DfT, and not attributing blame to any particular company or group.

I wouldn’t include the DfT as being part of the rail industry. That’s rather like claiming Thatcher’s Government were part of the mining industry in 1984. But anyhow, that’s off topic.

 

[BAFRA77]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet - but a hypothetical situation.

You have made your way across London on the Tube after a day out in the capital - and get to the station to catch the last service of the night to your destination some way outside of London - paid for by a nice reasonably costing Advance Ticket for that service.

Just before you hit the top of the escalators from the Tube - the 3 minute window shuts - and the service is removed from the screens before you are within sight of the display to see that happen.

You spend precious seconds searching the displays for your service - which of course is no longer showing - so you think it has been cancelled.

A short while later you see a member of staff and you enquire “hope you can help - I need to get back to X - but the last train of the night there has been cancelled - it wasn’t on the screens”

The staff member then informs you that it wasn’t cancelled - but left on time - and “sorry guv - you’re on your own now”.

Where does that leave the passenger then?

They cannot invoke the cancellation of last train rights (taxi or hotel paid for by the TOC) as the service wasn’t cancelled.

 

[yorkie]

I wouldn’t include the DfT as being part of the rail industry. That’s rather like claiming Thatcher’s Government were part of the mining industry in 1984. But anyhow, that’s off topic.

In that case replace the wording with whatever wording you seem appropriate; the point still stands!

 

[Via Bank]

Irrespective of the wording (“final call,” “ready to leave,” “all aboard” etc.) some kind of improved customer information for trains about to depart would be beneficial. Right now you get a poorly stitched-together announcement and… that’s it. Maybe the flashing departure lights you get at airports, or for longer-distance services Eurostar’s solution of having attendants with lollipops and batons guiding latecomers to the front of the queue and pointing them the right way (particularly when they’ve all come off a connecting train.) Then you at least reduce the risk of someone on the concourse missing the fact their departure is imminent.

Once again I am not convinced any of this will deal with the issue of people arriving late at the station and deciding to run regardless of whether or not the train is on the boards, which is an unfortunate reality of operating a railway anywhere.

 

[sheff1]

And when did your "5 minutes" come from?

Post #146

The person said they’d arrived at the station at the train’s departure time, so would have missed the train anyway had it departed on time.

Indeed, but it didn’t depart on time and had it been on the screens they would have caught it easily.

Fortunately, the practice of removing trains from the screens when they are delayed and still in the station is not in place at Sheffield. If it was, I would’ve missed a number of trains over the years.

 

[Failed Unit]

Just interested if anyone is at the station tonight.

2227 London - Cambridge is delayed (expected to leave 2246)
2242 London - Kings Lynn is cancelled.

Surely passengers for the later would prefer this to stay on the board until 2242 and the former should stay on the board until until it ready to depart to get passengers for the later closer to home. If they take the 2227 off the board 3 minutes before departure it probably will never go up as it will have a very quick turn around.

Following it on a live departures app - it never actually got a platform (probably did at the station I hope) but that is concerning if.a train can come and go and the platform never be displayed on the app.