Northern rail strike ?

[YorkshireBear]

Yet police officers and nurses earn far less.... They also require huge amounts of training. No one is paid enough.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

On that I totally agree bear (police, nurses and the armed forces especially)

 

[MacRae13]

I think I have seen on this site of some train conductors on £30000 then you have sick pay, holidays pensions all ends up with a very big bill this cannot go on for ever before some account thinks of ways to cut costs

Ehm, the £30000 you speak of (which not all TOCs pay conductors anyway....) would be inclusive of sick pay and holidays - not over and above, like the wording of your post suggests.

And are railway employees not entitled to a pension like other people now?

Jeez, I blame myself for rising to the bait.

 

[A-driver]

Yet police officers and nurses earn far less.... They also require huge amounts of training. No one is paid enough.

Police officers and nurses don't earn that much less and they are both jobs with progression which leads to far higher wages than a train driver or guard. If you become a driver you may earn 45k but that's pretty much it, you arnt going to progress further in your career to a higher paid job. If you are a police officer then fair enough you may be on mid20k as a PC but over the years of climbing ranks, specialising etc you can earn much more, same with nurses. A newly qualified basic nurse will earn a lot less but surgical nurses, private nurses, specialist nurses etc can earn more than a train driver.

There is more to this kind of thing than people think.

 

[mac]

Train drivers and train guards are not minimum wage jobs though, they require a lot of training, work and skill.

Or are you saying any job at all that pays above minimum wage must stop? Teachers, police officers, firefighters, paramedics etc all earn above minimum wage-they are at cost to the tax payers, should that stop to?

As for other rail staff, many arnt on much above minimum wage.

I think you are just trolling as you actually have nothing at all useful to add to this discussion.

£8 is not the minimum wage so drivers and guards would be above at that level, as for training 12 weeks for a guard is not that long true drivers do more but when things go wrong most times it's driver error.
I am not trolling just looking at things from the other side, my dad was a driver for 30 years when the wages where what I call normal and I could of had a job just by asking but went elsewhere for more money now when you read on the job page they are getting 3000 applicants for each role most of this is down to money.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is strike pay by any railway union in any way commeasurate to those wages of the people who go out on strike ? Has it kept pace with the wages paid to their members, as I am sure that the union would want to preserve the wage rights of their members, even at times of a strike?

 

[A-driver]

Is strike pay by any railway union in any way commeasurate to those wages of the people who go out on strike ? Has it kept pace with the wages paid to their members, as I am sure that the union would want to preserve the wage rights of their members, even at times of a strike?

Most of the people who I know who have every actually strikes have never been paid for it.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

3000 applicants and only the BEST gets through. I applied. I passed everything they threw at me and I got the job... Simples. that was 10 years ago and I still have a spotless safety record because of what they throw at us.

 

[mac]

I wouldn't drop to his level. This 'mac' guy apparently knows all there is to know about our jobs and knows for a fact that we are vastly overpaid and its all down to the unions.

It's very sad that so many threads on this forum end up going this way because of people with such a blinkered factually inaccurate view of things. Sadly the problem with Internet forums is that no knowledge is actually required before you post very offensive things.

What was offensive?

 

[A-driver]

What was offensive?

What you said was very offensive to a railway worker especially as there was no factual content to any of it! Just mis informed cliches.

 

[A-driver]

What was offensive?

Also, could you please provide some evidence that when things go wrong its mainly down to driver error please? I have had countless things go wrong since being a driver but none of them have ever been down to me at all.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Signalling errors are the usual or one of us giving 2 at a red (it does happen albeit rarely)

 

[mac]

I never put anything that's not true. The unions have called rail staff on strike because they are one of the only groups of workers left where they can cause trouble it used to be miners but they have all gone.

 

[A-driver]

I never put anything that's not true. The unions have called rail staff on strike because they are one of the only groups of workers left where they can cause trouble it used to be miners but they have all gone.

You stated most problems are driver error didn't you?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

So fighting for our colleagues futures is causing trouble! Ok then.......

 

[Clip]

Forget all the pathetic rhetoric about what people earn, chemist I have some booking office staff that would love to earn close to 20k let alone 30k a year, because its all false.

The simple and main fact here is the increasing use of agency staff in place of normal staff hired by the TOC. This is not on. Yes I use them but only sparingly when I have gaps to fill but they are not in place of proper staff. Its not on. And every time one of you whinge and moan about ineffective and not bothered staff, think about where they may come from and what you're paying for.

 

[wigwamman]

Its best to look at this in a pragmatic sort of way,the Toc wants to use agency staff as they will lower costs,these savings will go directly to shareholders and would not be used to provide cheaper fares or provide any sort of service improvements.
The unions job is to protect its members and so it is understandable why they would like to tackle this issue.
As far as I can the union has said it would like too see the staff carrying out these barrier dutys brought in house,so some of the agency staff would benefit by being employed on a proper contract.
Its the age old battle between workers and big buisness,every group is governed by self intrest,I wouldn't take it personally as a worker,but I would stand your ground and fight to keep your living standards,no one else will care about your jobs or livelyhood,all power too you.

 

[Oswyntail]

The baseline wage that a post attracts is generally determined by the ease with which suitable people can be recruited to and retained in that post. Some posts require more training, or particular personal qualities, so recruitment can be harder, and pay is higher; some posts can be filled more easily so pay is lower. A problem arises when either the nature of the job or the supply of suitable candidates changes such that it becomes easier to recruit and retain to a suitable level. In a vacuum, there are two ways to address this: the brutal option of getting rid of the higher paid staff and replacing them with equally competent but cheaper alternatives (or simply reducing their pay); the (IMHO) better option of negotiating the nature of the job so that it continues to justify the higher pay. In a commercial world, the one certainty in this situation is that it cannot remain static.

 

[O L Leigh]

I never put anything that's not true. The unions have called rail staff on strike because they are one of the only groups of workers left where they can cause trouble it used to be miners but they have all gone.

<Ignore>

O L Leigh

 

[313103]

Also, could you please provide some evidence that when things go wrong its mainly down to driver error please? I have had countless things go wrong since being a driver but none of them have ever been down to me at all.

You know he aint going to answer that one (and i had better choose my words very carefully after a comment i made about the name of a poster got me an infraction and a wraning) because he wont have any evidence to back it up. He will troll all through the other issues but will evade that one A Driver.

I like the fact that some on hear would prefer all of us to be on minimum wage and therefore resulting us to get state handouts costing the government purse. The reason why companies sub contract and bring in agency staff is purely all about the company saving money.

In probability Northern rail do not want these staff on there books in the first place.

 

[pinguini]

Signalling errors are the usual or one of us giving 2 at a red (it does happen albeit rarely)

For the benefit of us non-railway workers could you explain what this means please, because I don't understand.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Giving the ready start signal against a red aspect signal which if the driver took it. Could cause a spad. Which is not good.

 

[A-driver]

For the benefit of us non-railway workers could you explain what this means please, because I don't understand.

2 on the bell is the guards signal to the driver that station duties are complete and that the train may be moved. Giving 2 on a red means that the guard hasn't noticed the station starting signal is still red and given the driver authority to proceed. If the driver also fails to notice the red signal then there could potentially be a SPAD.

In all honesty the list of errors/problems/incidents which happen in the railway is endless. Driver error does of course happen, but its certainly not the cause of majority if incidents or anywhere close to a majority!

 

[sheff1]

I never put anything that's not true.

The funniest statement on here yet.

The 'average' wage you quoted is so far out it has got to be a wind up.

 

[455driver]

Average wage I would think is maybe £8 per hour so based on 35 hour week £280 or £14560 per year. I think I have seen on this site of some train conductors on £30000 then you have sick pay, holidays pensions all ends up with a very big bill this cannot go on for ever before some account thinks of ways to cut costs

We also have Saturday pay, Sunday pay, Bank Holiday pay, Unsocial hours pay, overtime pay.

Oh these are all either zero or flat rate (overtime)

You have really got it bad havent you!
Regret not "getting in" when your dad could "put a word in" for you but the pay was poor, so you went chasing the money elsewhere, now you are unable to "get in" or simply cant be bothered to try?
Of course some might say that you were "chasing the money" if you got in now wouldnt they?
Easier to sit behind the keyboard moaning about those over-paid railstaff isnt it!:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

2 on the bell is the guards signal to the driver that station duties are complete and that the train may be moved. Giving 2 on a red means that the guard hasn't noticed the station starting signal is still red and given the driver authority to proceed. If the driver also fails to notice the red signal then there could potentially be a SPAD.

Funnily enough 2 on the bell used to mean station duties complete, go when ready.

It didnt matter what colour the signal was as that wasnt part of the guards responsibility but after a few SPADs the rule was changed making it part of the guards duties.

2 on the bell at a red (on my train) translates as coffee with 2 sugars ta!

 

[A-driver]

When I started at southern guards used to buzz me up on busy trains and say they would be '10-belling' me if ok. It took me ages to work out what it actually meant! All I knew was that I would have to close the doors myself when they said it but I had never counted all the bells when you do that so for the first few months never understood why it was called 10 belling!

 

[455driver]

never worked "10 bells", it would be nice to do it just for a change.

 

[313103]

The rule on the two on the bell meaning Station duties are clear, driver ready to go. Was change after a fatal accident at Paisley Gilmour Street in April 1979. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paisley_Gilmour_Street_rail_accident

It was changed to the system we know and love now.

Now working 10 bells is a nightmare. I only did this for a very short time when i was on the Chiltern Line, just after the tubos had come in the 10 bell code was the method used. Most of the time it wasnt done and as the trains were going DOO and the Guards being made surplus to requirements, most of the time it was done in DOO mode anyway.

 

[Captain Chaos]

10 bells? You mean guard gives 1 - 2 to close, driver repeats, closes doors, guard gives 2, driver repeats and off you go? Do it all the time on the North Downs. Redhill stopper 10 bells at each stop! Joy!

The only time I don't need to do it is when I get the rare 150 on a Basingstoke. I like guarding them. Shame they aren't proving to be reliable though!

 

[Jock]

Why oh why, must every thread involving the unions have certain people who are insistent on trolling involved in them.

Jesus god what has gone wrong with this world. Some of you need to join a union and understand what its all about - nobody takes strike action likely for heavens sake, are people really suggesting that the Northern Staff should lie down and have there stomach's tickled? God I hope not, if the staff make the decision to stand up and fight for themselves then good on them.