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Northern rail strike ?

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O L Leigh

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Because everyone on this forum knows absolutely everything about all aspects of the railways and their operation in great detail...

...except for those of us who have actually been trained for it and do it as a job day in, day out.

O L Leigh
 
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mac

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You know he aint going to answer that one (and i had better choose my words very carefully after a comment i made about the name of a poster got me an infraction and a wraning) because he wont have any evidence to back it up. He will troll all through the other issues but will evade that one A Driver.

I like the fact that some on hear would prefer all of us to be on minimum wage and therefore resulting us to get state handouts costing the government purse. The reason why companies sub contract and bring in agency staff is purely all about the company saving money.

In probability Northern rail do not want these staff on there books in the first place.

I will try to answer that for you, one thing was these well trained drivers where going though red signals so all trains had to have extra safety devices fitted to stop them
 

Ferret

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I will try to answer that for you, one thing was these well trained drivers where going though red signals so all trains had to have extra safety devices fitted to stop them

Do you come with English subtitles at all?
 

mac

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<Ignore>

O L Leigh

Why it's true the unions used to have the miners and shipbuilders out on strike now they have gone rail staff are all that's left, why don't they call lorry drivers out on strike or what are the unions doing for agency staff.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The funniest statement on here yet.

The 'average' wage you quoted is so far out it has got to be a wind up.

What would you call the average wage, if you look on the jobcentre website most jobs are below £9 per hour.
 

ANorthernGuard

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mac

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and midwifes at 223 we can do without guards but can we do without midwifes
 

ANorthernGuard

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and midwifes at 223 we can do without guards but can we do without midwifes

You were talking about average wages. In that list are the average wages for most professions, you have no argument that has any substance, Train crew are highly trained professionals no one here will argue that Nurses etc are underpaid that isn't the issue, you said the average wage was approx £8-9 an hour at your local job centre, read the list mac, and come up with something substantial, if you cannot you are adding absolutely zero to what this thread is all about.
 

mac

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This thread is about the union wanting to call a strike about northern using agency staff which is something that companies all over do but no mention of union action or no mention of what they are doing for agency workers. There was a new law that came in about 18 months ago protecting agency workers but the agencies ignore it what are the unions doing about it, I can tell you nothing because there is nothing in it for the unions.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I think many on this thread know that I always speak with an impartial mind on such matters and all that I wish to say on the matter is that I have spoken to a wide range of commuters ranging from workers to shoppers who use Northern Rail services, since this thread was first set up in my capacity as a retired person able to do this at different times of the day, to ask of their views on how they would view a strike that was called to object to the usage of agency staff rather than the use of the existing rail staff.

It would appear that many of those asked did have moral support for the rail staff facing this problem, but I regret to report that the overwhelming number of the workers were more concerned with the disruption to their travel plans to go to work and back that such a strike would cause, which could leave them open to strictions by their own employers for causing disruption in their own companies in this period of employment uncertainty.

A sign of the times in which we live...<(
 

Ferret

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and midwifes at 223 we can do without guards but can we do without midwifes

Go and kidnap the Guard from an HST at Kings Cross and tell me if the train leaves without him........


 

northwichcat

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Forget all the pathetic rhetoric about what people earn, chemist I have some booking office staff that would love to earn close to 20k let alone 30k a year, because its all false.

Remember outside of the railway retail sales jobs quite often only incur £12k to £15k, many only earn minimum wage when starting out. £20k would be a supervisor or junior manager's salary.
 

A-driver

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I will try to answer that for you, one thing was these well trained drivers where going though red signals so all trains had to have extra safety devices fitted to stop them

Yes-drivers make mistakes. They arnt the only cause if incidents though by far. You have absolutely no idea what causes this human error but all industries use technology to work with humans to minimise risks, every single industry.

As I said before, incidents on the railway are caused by an endless list of factors, human error and driver error is a tiny tiny percentage and how about the number of incidents which the impact has been hugely reduced or sometimes averted all together by train crews?

You are obviously very bitter towards train drivers which is very sad as its affecting your ability to have a proper discussion or debate. Sadly you hatred towards rail staff is causing you to spout ill informed nonsense instead if contributing anything remotely useful to the discussion.
 

DD

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I see what all his resentment and stupid comments arise from,

What I wondered was how did 3 members of the same famliy all get jobs on Leeds station. When you read the careers page some people try for years to get a job with no success


I guess if you replace the words "some people" with Mac you will have your answer
 

O L Leigh

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This thread is about the union wanting to call a strike about northern using agency staff which is something that companies all over do but no mention of union action or no mention of what they are doing for agency workers. There was a new law that came in about 18 months ago protecting agency workers but the agencies ignore it what are the unions doing about it, I can tell you nothing because there is nothing in it for the unions.

Wrong. Let me educate you.

Permit me to be slightly pedantic about this, but the union has not called a strike. The members employed by Northern have.

The process is quite simple.

1) There is a concern with regard to some aspect of the job as experienced by staff, whether it be diagramming, adequate staff facilities or whatever. The staff have raised these concerned with their union representative.

2) These concerns are discussed by the union representatives with the appropriate management as part of the regular discourse between staff and company representatives with a view to the concerns being addressed. These discussions can go on for weeks or even months.

In most cases the concerns are addressed and any problems are resolved at this stage and nothing more is heard. However, sometimes a problem is so intractable that matters have to be taken further.

3) The union informs the company of a "failure to agree". This usually prompts more talks in the hope of seeking a resolution, but just every now and then a solution can not be reached (usually because the management side digs in and refuses to talk or engages in underhand tactics).

4) If this happens there is the possibility that the union might seek to take disruptive action, such as a work-to-rule or possibly even a strike. At this point the eligible membership is balloted for action to decide whether or not there is a mandate for action. If the majority return is a "Yes", then a strike is called.

This is all legal and above board and enshrined in employment law. You can go and check it for yourself if you like and see the process for yourself.

Your claim that the unions "get something out of striking" is just total hogwash. There is no benefit to the union by striking, and neither does the lack of a strike render them pointless. Failure to grasp that concept is the biggest problem of all whenever we discuss union matters here. The unions do a lot of things with regard to their membership that isn't seen by those on the outside.

Why are the unions doing nothing for the agency workers? Presumably because they are not union members and, therefore, are not represented by the RMT. I'm sure there aren't any barriers to them joining if they wish, or some other union, and getting the representation you feel they deserve. However, being agency staff, I'm not sure they are too concerned. By the nature of their employment, they would simply be redeployed elsewhere in other positions. Their jobs are not actually being threatened.

Mac: This is the last time I'm going to respond to your posts in this thread. You are exhibiting all the signs of a troll and simply aren't interested in this discussion except to stir up a lot of bad feeling. If others choose to continue to respond then that is their decision, but I know when I'm wasting my time with someone, and for you that time has come. We could have proper discussion about the role of trades unions in this and other industries, but it does require a bit more understanding and willingness to listen than you have so far demonstrated yourself capable of.

O L Leigh
 

mac

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I see what all his resentment and stupid comments arise from,




I guess if you replace the words "some people" with Mac you will have your answer

Not at all I could not stand the drop in money, but I was correct with that how did three members of same family get jobs when others try for years.
 

A-driver

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Not at all I could not stand the drop in money, but I was correct with that how did three members of same family get jobs when others try for years.

Because they were obviously all qualified for the jobs and able to get through the selection events/interviews. If they already have family or friends working there then that makes them quite well desired by the employer as they may have some idea of the job, company etc.

It's not so much the case anymore but in the old days family members were almost garunteed a job on the railway and many other industries.

Plus, those that try to get a job in the industry for years and keep getting knocked back probably arnt right for the jobs they are applying for-that's why they keep getting knocked back. I know that wont go down well with some on he but let's face it, it's the truth. If you are fit for a job then you will be offered it. People who fail the aptitude tests twice or keep failing interviews (for driver positions specifically I'm talking about) obviously arnt cut out for the job or else they would pass the tests and intviews!
 

ANorthernGuard

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This is also my last post until the trolling ceases. There is no such thing as family getting you a job in today's railway. Everything is audited. So mac you continue blaming the unions for everything that you know nothing about. All you are doing is making yourself look like a troll which this forum has no place for.


ANG

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pinguini

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Oh dear, has somoneone spoken out over rail staff pay on a rail forum? A death wish.
 

A-driver

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Oh dear, has somoneone spoken out over rail staff pay on a rail forum? A death wish.

No, someone has spouted a load of factually incorrect and rather offensive nonsense in a way that adds nothing to the discussion.

And what is the problem with rail staff pay anyway out of interest? Rail staff are well paid but not overpaid, yes start comparing us to nurses and police officers in terms of pay but then read back a few posts to where I pointed out the facts about their pay and how many nurses and police officers earn more than train drivers.
 

175001

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Don't worry, i'm sure the trollers will soon declare Airline Pilots get paid too much as all they do is push buttons and turn dials on the Auto Pilot :D
 

ANorthernGuard

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Oh dear, has somoneone spoken out over rail staff pay on a rail forum? A death wish.

no just people who have zero knowledge of what they are talking about continuing to talk Bile when evidence points to the contrary, do you see any rail staff here take the michael out of trainspotters or hardcore enthusiasts? of course you don't? I don't have a clue what it is like to be a trainspotter or enthusiast or what it entails. I have respect for their hobby I enjoy the railway its my career and I come from a railway family.

Speak facts not what you would want as fact
 

pinguini

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Don't worry, i'm sure the trollers will soon declare Airline Pilots get paid too much as all they do is push buttons and turn dials on the Auto Pilot :D

Funnily enough some rail staff on this forum have recently criticised cabin crew; then get upset when people criticise their own industry.
 

O L Leigh

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Funnily enough some rail staff on this forum have recently criticised cabin crew; then get upset when people criticise their own industry.

Frankly I wouldn't dare comment on anyone else's job without taking the time to understand it first. I don't welcome people criticising me for discharging my duties when they have no understanding, so why should I do any different?

I would hope people can see why railstaff get annoyed from time to time. By all means comment if you feel you want to contribute, but at the very least you must understand that commenting from a position outside the industry may mean that your understanding is incomplete. Please be prepared to listen and learn and to modify your views. Is that not what respect is about...?

O L Leigh
 

ANorthernGuard

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Frankly I wouldn't dare comment on anyone else's job without taking the time to understand it first. I don't welcome people criticising me for discharging my duties when they have no understanding, so why should I do any different?

I would hope people can see why railstaff get annoyed from time to time. By all means comment if you feel you want to contribute, but at the very least you must understand that commenting from a position outside the industry may mean that your understanding is incomplete. Please be prepared to listen and learn and to modify your views. Is that not what respect is about...?

O L Leigh

Sadly some people look at us with contempt, the reasons? who knows but certainly a few and no matter what facts are they will never see it, however there are many people on here who do have the respect and understanding of our industry and a lot of them do manage to be taken on by a TOC and the railway is better for it.
 

mac

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This is also my last post until the trolling ceases. There is no such thing as family getting you a job in today's railway. Everything is audited. So mac you continue blaming the unions for everything that you know nothing about. All you are doing is making yourself look like a troll which this forum has no place for.


ANG

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You say no such thing as family getting you a job but one post above says It's not so much the case anymore which to me means it could happen. As I have put before my dad drove for years (with me beside him during school holidays) so maybe I do know something.
I am not a troll just someone with an opinion on a public forum.
 

ANorthernGuard

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You say no such thing as family getting you a job but one post above says It's not so much the case anymore which to me means it could happen. As I have put before my dad drove for years (with me beside him during school holidays) so maybe I do know something.
I am not a troll just someone with an opinion on a public forum.

My dad was railway my grandad was railway and my great grandad was railway, all were dead before I started on the railway. so there goes that one out of the water




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