In bed for a couple of weeks? Or do you mean forced to isolate as they have tested positive, despite feeling fine?Not many at present. But that's irrelevant - even if Omicron causes zero hospitalisations you will still see significant short term disruption to normal life if large numbers of people are in bed for a couple of weeks.
Oh he'll get the votes, thanks to Labour. That's not my point. But the 1922 committee will get its signatures to start a leadership campaign.I think you are naive if you don't think he would have the votes.
If he wanted more restrictions the would absolutely get through parliament - Labour would support pretty much anything so you would need a near total rebellion which ain't going to happen.
Sorry to be blunt but this isn't Brexit - the Opposition are not opposed
It's not a technique that we use for any other respiratory illness though. Given that 95% of people have antibodies, I struggle to see how this is different anymore.Boosters are very effective but we don't how effective against Omicron. And we don't yet know whether Omicron will turn out be more severe, more mild or about the same as Delta. Isolating those who have tested positive seems to me to be the most basic measure to take.
Don't forget Starmer asking for 'clarity' on something.You only really have to worry about a lockdown when Starmer calls for one and Boris denies it. We’re two for two on that one now.
He would get the votes but the bigger the rebellion the better for several reasons.I think you are naive if you don't think he would have the votes.
In the short term, it has the potential to be, if the Government acts in a manner that is inappropriate and out of step with the clear wishes of the majority. But in the longer term it's likely to spell the beginning of the end of the pandemic. This variant is such a fit virus that it will ensure almost all those who do not already have prior immunity (e.g. refused to be vaccinated or not eligible) will gain that immunity through natural exposure. Those who are vaccinated will be given a natural booster to gain even higher levels of immunity.Well this is thoroughly depressing.
The problem with isolations can be resolved by removing the requirements to isolate. Isolation is arguably no longer appropriate for Sars-CoV-2 both due to the Omicron evolution and also the increased level of immunity we have.Rumours abound about a 2 week circuit breaker after Christmas. I'm really not wanting a lockdown but clearly the high cases are causing much disruption in many industries due to workers off with Covid isolating or close contacts isolating (no jab) so a couple or so weeks circuit breaker in January which is a quiet month for many businesses wouldn't be too bad and would bring cases down. I'm sure furlough can be brought back temporarily.
But this would not end the argument as hard leftists will say we can afford anything as an unlimited amount of money can be invented/printed and if it results in hyperinflation, so be it. They are utterly bonkers but they are stubborn and will word their argument in such a way that they try to convince normal people it's a good idea. They are dangerous.The Government should just make a statement now that the country cannot afford it, which it can't...
I think this link is appropriate here:Okay you are talking to an idiot here - by your definition.
You say the hospital ICUs are full of us idiots.
Really?
Give me your evidence to back this up?
Yes there have been a few high profile cases pushed by the media in which someone who does die stated they wished they had had been vaxed - but just how many are there really?
My decision not to have a C19 vaccine is not based on the belief vaccines are not good for you. It is clearly demonstrated that MOST vaccines are good for MOST people. I would NEVER advocate not having polio / small pox / MMR. They are very important.
My own personal decision on not to have the C19 vaccine is based on the same reasoning for not having the flu vaccine.
I have never had flu in 62 years and never had the flu vaccine either. However, I have worked with flu vax enthusiast colleagues who went on to catch the flu.
C19 is just another variation on colds and flu.
Therefore, my strategy is to deal with C19 in the same manner as flu and not have it.
In this thread people who have had it have reported side effects, I know of one former colleague on on having his second C19 vax developed vision problems. There is much speculation about heart issues arising from the C19 vaccine.
Further more I have poked two fingers up at all the rules and restrictions imposed by both England and Wales since March 2020 and I am still fit and healthy. Umpteen people have predicted my demise or serious illness because of my views but yet I am still here fit and healthy.
The final thing that made me decide to follow the path of rebellion rather than compliance were the figures which circulated in spring 2020 which made it quite clear the vast majority of us would not die of Covid let alone catch it.
On a personal basis I was much more seriously concerned a few years ago when Ebola looked as though it could turn into a pandemic. Now that really did look scary as survival rates were much, much lower.
Basically I have made an informed decision to react in the way I have. I am not stating it is right for everyone.
People have the right to do what is right for themselves, not their family, friends, neighbours or wider community.
They are not idiots for doing so.
We can all agree that MOST people have only experienced relatively mild cold-like symptoms from Covid, and that will of course be true for Omicron as well.Without wishing to answer what someone else is thinking/saying, looking at the big picture, it is highly likely that the pandemic of around 1889 was caused by a Coronavirus which we now call HCoV-OC43; over time we have had to live alongside this virus in a state of endemic equilibrium and we now simply refer to this, and many other viruses as a "common cold"; it is widely expected that the same will happen with Sars-CoV-2 although we are not yet at the stage where the virus will be referred to in similar terms and categorised accordingly, but the reality is that for most people an Omicron infection will be similar to an infection of a so-called "common cold"
Indeed I've had conversations with people who have had viral infections over the last year who said that their most recent infection of Sars-CoV-2 was milder than an infection they had with a viral infection for which they tested negative to Sars-CoV-2.
So I suspect your disagreement with the other member is perhaps over semantics and a lack of understanding.
I think this link is appropriate here:
Mandatory remedial maths lessons planned for people who argue against vaccines with ‘most Covid patients in hospital are vaccinated’
The government is to introduce mandatory remedial maths lessons for anyone arguing against the efficacy of Covid vaccines with the line “most Covid patients in hospital are vaccinated”.newsthump.com
Indeed and it is proving to be even more true for Omicron; have you read any of the links I provided? Did you listen to any of the podcasts?We can all agree that MOST people have only experienced relatively mild cold-like symptoms from Covid, and that will of course be true for Omicron as well.
Due to the virus still being relatively novel, it is currently more comparable with 'flu in that sense.The problem is that the proportion of people experiencing severe symptoms has been orders of magnitude greater than a typical cold season.
Actually in this sense, it's not really that much different to what you might expect for 'flu, depending on the year (we have good years and bad years).Vaccinations have been a great success in reducing the severity down to a level that most people have found acceptable - although at over 100 deaths per day for several months this is still significantly higher than we'd see for a cold. Eventually this will decline to levels we see with other endemic respiratory illnesses. But we cannot yet do so.
I am not saying it is sensible to do that; I said what I said in my post above and if there is a part of my post you disagree with, please feel free to quote it and we will debate it further.So to dismiss Omicron as 'just a cold' is not very sensible, although it will eventually be that.
...oh yes you do!!I have the Panto booked for 27th. I'm attempting to rebook for this week, as I just don't trust them not to do anything silly after Xmas.
I think you are naive if you don't think he would have the votes.
If he wanted more restrictions the would absolutely get through parliament - Labour would support pretty much anything so you would need a near total rebellion which ain't going to happen.
Sorry to be blunt but this isn't Brexit - the Opposition are not opposed
I suspect a larger number of Tories plus a significant number of Labour members would be opposed to a full lockdown.
With the exception of the vaccine passports, Plan B isn't too heavy. A full lockdown is.
If a lockdown is passed, I expect it would be with strict conditions and criteria for when it would be lifted.
In other words, the government would have to specify a roadmap out the new lockdown, giving dates about which restrictions would be removed and when, before the new lockdown came into force.
I think this link is appropriate here:
Mandatory remedial maths lessons planned for people who argue against vaccines with ‘most Covid patients in hospital are vaccinated’
The government is to introduce mandatory remedial maths lessons for anyone arguing against the efficacy of Covid vaccines with the line “most Covid patients in hospital are vaccinated”.newsthump.com
Newsthump is a parody news site if you want a laugh, if whatever they came out becomes actual news we're in real trouble.I think this link is appropriate here:
Mandatory remedial maths lessons planned for people who argue against vaccines with ‘most Covid patients in hospital are vaccinated’
The government is to introduce mandatory remedial maths lessons for anyone arguing against the efficacy of Covid vaccines with the line “most Covid patients in hospital are vaccinated”.newsthump.com
What it is being highlighted is there is not enough hospital capacity to cope with the current situation, a situation that in many ways is unavoidable; much of Europe is seeing record high cases a year on from when vaccines were first being rolled out. We have seen and still will see an increase in population in the years ahead, both numerically and in average age. Problems like this are not going away, because they are inevitable for the demographic situation the developed world is now in.We can all agree that MOST people have only experienced relatively mild cold-like symptoms from Covid, and that will of course be true for Omicron as well.
The problem is that the proportion of people experiencing severe symptoms has been orders of magnitude greater than a typical cold season.
Vaccinations have been a great success in reducing the severity down to a level that most people have found acceptable - although at over 100 deaths per day for several months this is still significantly higher than we'd see for a cold. Eventually this will decline to levels we see with other endemic respiratory illnesses. But we cannot yet do so. So to dismiss Omicron as 'just a cold' is not very sensible, although it will eventually be that.
Newsthump is a parody news site if you want a laugh, if whatever they came out becomes actual news we're in real trouble.
What it is being highlighted is there is not enough hospital capacity to cope with the current situation, a situation that in many ways is unavoidable; much of Europe is seeing record high cases a year on from when vaccines were first being rolled out. We have seen and still will see an increase in population in the years ahead, both numerically and in average age. Problems like this are not going away, because they are inevitable for the demographic situation the developed world is now in.
Our perceptions of pandemics should be just seen as a natural control of the worlds' population appearing every so often to keep it in check.We have seen and still will see an increase in population in the years ahead, both numerically and in average age. Problems like this are not going away, because they are inevitable for the demographic situation the developed world is now in.
I certainly agree, but the problem is there is a widespread anthropocentric (or human exceptionalist) mindset where we think we are special, above nature and able to control every threat that comes our way. Therefore we must prevent deaths and serious illness as if they are preventable, when we never save a life, we just delay death, and life is never going to be a perfect painless journey. Dare I say that death may actually be preferable to living in perpetual fear to the point of just existing.Our perceptions of pandemics should be just seen as a natural control of the worlds' population appearing every so often to keep it in check.
Yes I know that can be difficult if it is you, your nearest and dearest or your friends that become victims.
When I used to teach population Geography I used a brilliant video I obtained from the web which illustrated the various issues with lab flasks representing the continents filled with different coloured water. There was a hole in the bottom of each flask. Water was poured in at the top and progressively plasters were applied at the bottom restricting the exit of the water for such things as improved health care / better food production / better sanitary facilities etc etc. As more plasters were added the outflow slowed and the levels of water increased significantly until they overflowed.
What we need to do is basically accept pandemics as a population correction built into the system to effect a correction and ensure that natural resources are not overwhelmed and remove some of those plasters for a while.
Perhaps we should approach pandemics in non emotional "Mr Spock" and look at the benefits of them as an effective means of population control?
Our perceptions of pandemics should be just seen as a natural control of the worlds' population appearing every so often to keep it in check.
Yes I know that can be difficult if it is you, your nearest and dearest or your friends that become victims.
When I used to teach population Geography I used a brilliant video I obtained from the web which illustrated the various issues with lab flasks representing the continents filled with different coloured water. There was a hole in the bottom of each flask. Water was poured in at the top and progressively plasters were applied at the bottom restricting the exit of the water for such things as improved health care / better food production / better sanitary facilities etc etc. As more plasters were added the outflow slowed and the levels of water increased significantly until they overflowed.
What we need to do is basically accept pandemics as a population correction built into the system to effect a correction and ensure that natural resources are not overwhelmed and remove some of those plasters for a while.
Perhaps we should approach pandemics in non emotional "Mr Spock" way and look at the benefits of them as an effective means of population control?
I certainly agree, but the problem is there is a widespread anthropocentric (or human exceptionalist) mindset where we think we are special, above nature and able to control every threat that comes our way. Therefore we must prevent deaths and serious illness as if they are preventable, when we never save a life, we just delay death, and life is never going to be a perfect painless journey. Dare I say that death may actually be preferable to living in perpetual fear to the point of just existing.
Apologies for not including this before, there will of course be conditions that can and should be saved/prevented, but society has not really thought through the consequences of the change in demographics that has resulted from technological advances. Personal and public finances are suffering as a result, particularly as the effective pyramid scheme model for funding old age care/retirement is reaching the collapse point. What we need is a compromise solution around ensuring the best quality of life, but that means talking about the so far taboo subjects. What definitely isn't sustainable is pursuing quantity with no regard for quality whatsoever. There is a reason pneumonia is sometimes referred to as "The Old Man's friend", and I wouldn't be surprised if covid is viewed and will eventually be viewed in a similar manner in years to come.Why stop at pandemics? Why should we treat any disease at all? Let nature take its course and 'correct' the population level...
This thread is becoming quite something.
Why stop at pandemics? Why should we treat any disease at all? Let nature take its course and 'correct' the population level...
This thread is becoming quite something.
I see that Sadiq Khan has declared an emergency in London due to the number of COVID cases (and people off work as a consequence).
There really needs to be a review of the ten day isolation policy as it is becoming pointless and more damaging than the virus. The suggestion that people isolate until they've had a couple of days negative tests earlier on seems eminently sensible.
I think the government is looking at reducing the isolation period to seven days.
Even Professor Pantsdown seems to think this would be OK.
Doing this would lessen the impact of staff shortages, and would help to reduce the pressure on the NHS, and the consequent need for more restrictions.
It's possible, but I won't say for definite, that we might just avoid 100k reported cases thanks to today's value not getting there. Sunday and Monday have tended to report slightly lower values across a 7 day period, and we're now into the school holidays, which has typically seen testing decline for previous holiday periods this year, so less cases numerically will be found should that materialise this time as well.Daily data has come through, still 90k of cases but still hardly much change to hospital and death figures. Looking at the hospital data over the last three months, so one battered at eye at the last peak in late oct, early Nov.
Cross fingers here it stays like this!