Discussing with a colleague this morning who said it was a travesty that train drivers are paid over twice what bus drivers are paid -bus drivers have to manoevre their vehicle in conflicting traffic whereas train drivers just have to know when and how to start and stop. I couldn't contradict her - is a loco cab and more complicated that a bus cab these days? Is it just comparative union strength which is responsible?
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Train drivers overpaid?
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nb2001uk
Member
"whereas train drivers just have to know when and how to start and stop."
You've been on this forum for 11 years and all that you've been able to discover about a train drivers job description is that they just have to press start and stop.
You've been on this forum for 11 years and all that you've been able to discover about a train drivers job description is that they just have to press start and stop.
There's a few things to consider, yes union strength does play a part as does the recruitment process. Testing is far more intense.
Consider the highways code, even conductor rules are far more comprehensive never mind train driver.
Also consider how many passengers potentially are on a train compared to a bus.
Yes a bus can manoeuvre out of the way, but that actually makes the job easier not harder. Imagine the difference between the two roles when someone or something jumps out in front of the vehicle - a train driver knows it is highly likely to hit it, a bus driver can drive around it. The job is far harder and, when things go wrong, has to deal with potentially far greater physical or mental effects of the work.
Consider the highways code, even conductor rules are far more comprehensive never mind train driver.
Also consider how many passengers potentially are on a train compared to a bus.
Yes a bus can manoeuvre out of the way, but that actually makes the job easier not harder. Imagine the difference between the two roles when someone or something jumps out in front of the vehicle - a train driver knows it is highly likely to hit it, a bus driver can drive around it. The job is far harder and, when things go wrong, has to deal with potentially far greater physical or mental effects of the work.
RJ
Established Member
A job is worth whatever a company is willing to pay for labour.
A way for a bus driver to up their income is to become an owner operator - doing so it’s entirely possible to have £1k a week to spare after costs.
I suspect this thread won’t last long as it seems to be intentionally incendiary.
toot toot
Member
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Driving a bus is just the same as driving a car then surly? Just a Steering wheel and pedals? Dont even need to change gear…
bramling
Veteran Member
Wages are determined by supply and demand, and at present there is a shortage of train drivers, and some difficulty getting suitable people to fill vacancies. So on that basis they are possibly under paid.
There may be a case to say that there is more of an issue in the disparities between different TOCs, however. I’d say it’s rather unsatisfactory that a metro driver on Southeastern gets a lot less than an LNER driver.
Grvrdvicdr
Member
Grabbing the popcorn for this one.
But all seriousness sit a bus driver up front with a train driver during middle of leaf fall in the thick fog at 90mph then break down and fix it
But all seriousness sit a bus driver up front with a train driver during middle of leaf fall in the thick fog at 90mph then break down and fix it
12LDA28C
Established Member
You couldn't contradict her? Really?
Bus drivers do a good job however I could probably get in a bus right now, drive it away and stop at a bus stop. Could a bus driver get in a train cab and drive it with no training and stop at the next station? I doubt it.
Different skill set, different responsibilities. You might as well try to compare cheese to a trampoline.
Should we get pilots into the comparison as well? In the end of the day they earn double train drivers wage and they don't even fly the plane 
Personally I rather fly with highly trained professional on high salary, and I'm not in any rush to get into their seat instead!
Personally I rather fly with highly trained professional on high salary, and I'm not in any rush to get into their seat instead!
High Dyke
Established Member
Having joined the railway, from being a bus driver, then I have experience in both camps. Either profession has its own level of skills that need to be utilised. When I was a bus driver, I faced the day-to-day challenges of being in traffic. I considered the train driver to be a better paid job, but they merely had to rails to guide them. That view has considerably changed, having volunteered as a driver on a heritage railway. Whether the train goes 25mph or 125mph you still need to know how to control the train and understand when it breaks down.
I actually trained on a 'stick' bus, not these new-fangled automatic things. You still have rules, regulations and procedures to follow in either job, as many threads over these forums will attest to.
As someone who has done both I can tell you a bus driver job doesn't compare to a train drivers job in terms of training and safety etc, dont get me wrong you couldn't just jump in a bus and drive it, you'd be through the windscreen the first time you braked if you didn't know how air brakes work lol but there's a reason it takes a bus driver a week to get a licence, a train driver 12-18months.
Both very responsible jobs for what they do and you couldn't pay me to drive a bus again in London, they definitely deserve more pay but different jobs completely.
Yes there are rules and regs to follow in both but entirely different for the job itself.
Both very responsible jobs for what they do and you couldn't pay me to drive a bus again in London, they definitely deserve more pay but different jobs completely.
Yes there are rules and regs to follow in both but entirely different for the job itself.
I've been neither a bus driver nor a train driver (not yet anyway) but from an outside viewpoint with some degree of knowledge regarding both jobs, they're not comparable. Train drivers have to learn and memorise a whole new set of rules as well as retain sufficient core traction and route knowledge, whereas bus drivers have to deal with traffic on a regular basis as well as dealing with passengers and selling tickets as well as retaining their own route knowledge for their journeys. But if anyone thinks it's wrong for them to not receive the same rate of pay, then maybe they should advocate higher salaries and support their strikes rather than see it as a race to the bottom.
RJ
Established Member
You’d be surprised - seemingly every weekend qualified bus drivers turn up on jobs and not be able to work out how to switch the bus on, operate the doors, carry out safety checks or release the brakes, let alone drive their designated route unaided.
I’d be surprised if you could start up one of my articulated buses, get it moving, reverse shunt it in a confined space and negotiate the tight corners without touching any bollards, kerbs or fences, with no experience or training.
It’s not fair on either side for people to undermine the skills required to do a job without having done it. And in any case, time taken to gain competency isn’t necessarily correlated with pay. There are a lot of people in transport who are in roles that pay several hundred pounds a day, whose period of training is probably less than that of a train driver. I don’t know why people keep attacking the train driving grade when there are many ways to earn a lot more money!
Oh no, not this again! It’s an incredibly boring subject that has been done to death.
It takes a few days to become a bus driver. It takes a year to eighteen months to become a train driver (more comparable to the length of time it takes to become an airline pilot). The skill and training required is orders of magnitude apart.
Your colleague sounds very bitter.
Should we get pilots into the comparison as well? In the end of the day they earn double train drivers wage and they don't even fly the plane
I’ve already mentioned them. They normally crop up in these conversations. So do nurses
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O L Leigh
Established Member
They normally crop up in this conversations, so do nurses
When are the nurses arriving?
ExRes
Established Member
Have we had the relative abilities and responsibilities of ultra large crude carrier Masters yet?
OK, I honestly didn't know. Looking in a bus cab they seem much more complex than in the day when you had to know how to move a Leyland Atlantean as opposed to a Daimler Fleetline. I suppose it's not so much getting the traction to stop and go but the complexities of the network and the big book of rules you have to be aware of.
Tinyterror
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I am a long time Lurker but thought the original question was an interesting one, whilst I think it's difficult to compare the driving of a train to driving an alternate vehicle type, i do feel that the overriding issue isn't that train drivers are overpaid it is that much of society is underpaid in particular roles within the private sector. Teh harsh reality of taking any public service into private hands is the competitive tender process this ensures a race to the bottom for pay rates.
The railway is one of very few areas left where unions maintain strength, and this strength does ensure a fair wage. I don't believe that the average person should need to work overtime just to get by and pay bills, I do think that an average working couple should be able to buy a home, run a car, go on a holiday and maybe enjoy the weekly takeaway.
The train driver salary hasn't increased without compromise over the years, DOO far more prevalent, Sunday working now becoming incorporated and some very demanding shift work with very odd shift timings.
I work in the private sector at around £55k, to give up the "luxury" flexi working over a Monday to Friday pattern, i would want 20% more to entertain shift working as a fair trade of value.
Bus Drivers (as the comparison was originally framed) are in my opinion very much underpaid, and although the route to entry in easier for a wheel turner than a lever puller, over the years the unions have had much of the negotiation leverage removed; with a longer-term determent to those on the coal face. Pay and conditions have been slowly being eroded and people should be taking a stand
The railway is one of very few areas left where unions maintain strength, and this strength does ensure a fair wage. I don't believe that the average person should need to work overtime just to get by and pay bills, I do think that an average working couple should be able to buy a home, run a car, go on a holiday and maybe enjoy the weekly takeaway.
The train driver salary hasn't increased without compromise over the years, DOO far more prevalent, Sunday working now becoming incorporated and some very demanding shift work with very odd shift timings.
I work in the private sector at around £55k, to give up the "luxury" flexi working over a Monday to Friday pattern, i would want 20% more to entertain shift working as a fair trade of value.
Bus Drivers (as the comparison was originally framed) are in my opinion very much underpaid, and although the route to entry in easier for a wheel turner than a lever puller, over the years the unions have had much of the negotiation leverage removed; with a longer-term determent to those on the coal face. Pay and conditions have been slowly being eroded and people should be taking a stand
And being responsible for upward of 1000+ passengers at any given time. Even more so on DOO routes when things go wrong and you're the only staff member on there.
This is quite correct and I must say very insightful for someone not even working in the industry.
You should consider lurking less and posting more
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O L Leigh
Established Member
Higher pay also works as a way of protecting the investment made in training drivers, as it helps to ensure good staff retention rates. While drivers may move from company to company, it's not often that they are entirely lost from the industry.
I was a former bus driver, i’m currently a few weeks away from qualifying as a train driver.
I think the skillset required in both roles differ even if ever so slightly - the actual handling of the vehicle i would say bus driving edges it whereas in terms of knowledge retention and application of said knowledge - it’s the trains 100%.
A lot of us on the buses (especially those not lucky enough to make it into the train driving grade) did have a feeling that we were significantly underpaid.
A lot of jobs look easy from the outside (see the “you only pull a lever” committee) but once in them, you discover that’s not quite the case.
I have done both roles and respect both roles plainly put.
As was alluded to earlier, people should be in positions to negotiate better salaries without a race to the bottom. The strength of the union on the buses compared to the trains is not even a worthwhile conversation.
I think the skillset required in both roles differ even if ever so slightly - the actual handling of the vehicle i would say bus driving edges it whereas in terms of knowledge retention and application of said knowledge - it’s the trains 100%.
A lot of us on the buses (especially those not lucky enough to make it into the train driving grade) did have a feeling that we were significantly underpaid.
A lot of jobs look easy from the outside (see the “you only pull a lever” committee) but once in them, you discover that’s not quite the case.
I have done both roles and respect both roles plainly put.
As was alluded to earlier, people should be in positions to negotiate better salaries without a race to the bottom. The strength of the union on the buses compared to the trains is not even a worthwhile conversation.
This is a 319 cab. It is labelled with 13 different bits of cab equipment. By my count there are at least 20 bits of equipment still not labelled. Nothing in this picture tells you how to use the equipment, what circumstances they are supposed to be used, or what to do when they break.
This website here ( http://www.dawlishtrains.com/uk-emu-cabs-3xxx.html ) Shows an excellent series of photos with the evolution of train cabs over series 3xx and 7xx units. This link shows a series of cab photographs.
Anyone who has played TrainSim on hard mode will attest that the cab (traction) is not to be sniffed at. Train Drivers also need to be acutely aware of the differences between a Class 319 and a 700 Desiro City.
Memories!
I wouldn’t even say we’re “well paid”, more “paid a salary which is representative of our vast training and responsibility”.
We are well paid, but relative to the job role.
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