Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

[Domh245]

That picture is of one of the short sets. The lack of orange stripe along the lower bit of blue gives it away

 

[Merle Haggard]

The livery thread lists 19 ex LNER power cars in service, 3 EMR originals left.
I'm out of date probably but I think there's only 2 LNER sets of coaches in use.
But the objective of the transfers was to improve access for PRM by replacing the coaches.

 

[43 302]

The livery thread lists 19 ex LNER power cars in service, 3 EMR originals left.
I'm out of date probably but I think there's only 2 LNER sets of coaches in use.
But the objective of the transfers was to improve access for PRM by replacing the coaches.

NL51, NL56 & NL57 in use. NL55 & NL58 at Neville Hill.

 

[DB]

NL51, NL56 & NL57 in use. NL55 & NL58 at Neville Hill.

Are both of 55 and 58 expected to enter service or is one for spares?

Thanks

 

[43 302]

Are both of 55 and 58 expected to enter service or is one for spares?

Thanks

NL58 is expected to enter service and I am not sure on NL55.

 

[Merle Haggard]

NL58 is expected to enter service and I am not sure on NL55.

Thank you for that.
The 'frequently requested diagrams' for EMR shows trains operated by HSTs, rather than their diagrams, so it's a bit hard to tell how many are needed at the moment, but it looks (from the early starters from Leeds and Sheffield) about 5 long sets. If NL55 does get into service, that might be enough completely to replace the EMR sets while restrictions last. 22PCs for 5 sets seems generous though!

It’s a totally new timetable once the Corby electrics start, so making direct diagram comparisons isn’t very meaningful.

Yes, thanks for that, I should have realised much more intensive use possible with an homogenous fleet.

 

[cactustwirly]

Thank you for that.
The 'frequently requested diagrams' for EMR shows trains operated by HSTs, rather than their diagrams, so it's a bit hard to tell how many are needed at the moment, but it looks (from the early starters from Leeds and Sheffield) about 5 long sets. If NL55 does get into service, that might be enough completely to replace the EMR sets while restrictions last. 22PCs for 5 sets seems generous though!

There's 8 HST diagrams a day that are HST (2+8) operated on Weekdays, 5 on Saturdays and 7 on Sundays.

In order to provide ample capacity the 360s and 180s need to free up atleast 10 5 car 222s, for Saturdays alone.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There's 8 HST diagrams a day that are HST (2+8) operated on Weekdays, 5 on Saturdays and 7 on Sundays.

In order to provide ample capacity the 360s and 180s need to free up atleast 10 5 car 222s, for Saturdays alone.

Presumably with clever, intensive diagramming.
I'll say no more...

 

[43096]

There's 8 HST diagrams a day that are HST (2+8) operated on Weekdays, 5 on Saturdays and 7 on Sundays.

In order to provide ample capacity the 360s and 180s need to free up atleast 10 5 car 222s, for Saturdays alone.

Not strictly true - with a more homogenous fleet the 70min turnround for the Nottingham fast service at St Pancras can be reduced, which will save units.

 

[WesternLancer]

Spot on, the EMR HST interior is now dated heavily and is clearly an old train. Contrast with the ex LNER ones which are very pleasant and (with the exception of the doors) could be only a few years old.

studying one yesterday I was reminded that Standard Class interiors on the ex LNERs have, I think, fewer table seats and somewhat poorer window alignment to seating than the older EMR HST interiors, both of which re not to my liking. Def a more 'modern' ambiance tho, but not sure if people notice that as much as condition / cleanliness (and plugs!). 1st have a fair number of uni directional single seats, which are rare on the original interiors (just one in the restaurant vehicle IIRC).

 

[Pippy1505]

5 Diagrams on weekdays from Dec timetable change so 6 sets will be required to allow for a maintenance set

3 HST sets replaced by 3 x 180 diagrams

 

[yorksrob]

studying one yesterday I was reminded that Standard Class interiors on the ex LNERs have, I think, fewer table seats and somewhat poorer window alignment to seating than the older EMR HST interiors, both of which re not to my liking. Def a more 'modern' ambiance tho, but not sure if people notice that as much as condition / cleanliness (and plugs!). 1st have a fair number of uni directional single seats, which are rare on the original interiors (just one in the restaurant vehicle IIRC).

The leatherette of 1st seemed a bit stressed when I was on it a couple of weeks ago. Moquette definitely more hard wearing !

 

[Merle Haggard]

3 HST sets replaced by 3 x 180 diagrams

That's interesting because the 3 short sets (which the 180s theoretically replace) I think only worked 2 diagrams, one of which was very slack.

 

[WesternLancer]

5 Diagrams on weekdays from Dec timetable change so 6 sets will be required to allow for a maintenance set

3 HST sets replaced by 3 x 180 diagrams

Thanks for posting that. Useful to know.

 

[DannyMich2018]

That's interesting because the 3 short sets (which the 180s theoretically replace) I think only worked 2 diagrams, one of which was very slack.

I believe since Covid there is only 1 diagram for the short sets and it's weekdays only too. As far as I know even when the 2nd diagram ran it was only part time as this didn't start till about lunch time.

 

[Hairy Bear]

I believe since Covid there is only 1 diagram for the short sets and it's weekdays only too. As far as I know even when the 2nd diagram ran it was only part time as this didn't start till about lunch time.

Pre covid the 2nd set didn't go out until it went empty to Nott'm to work the 19.45 London.
Now it's a 222 and the 2 other rakes are stored. 3 of the Angel power cars are on full sets with the remaining one stored also.

 

[43055]

6 coaches of set NL58 entered service yesterday. I think this just leaves one red set to enter service. There are also some other 8 coach sets running with 6 or 7 coaches.

 

[Killingworth]

2 red sets must have passed each other near Chesterfield yesterday afternoon. At a distance they looked good, closer up they looked very battle weary!

EMR may be cleaning interiors but externally almost all their units currently look filthy. Where and when do they do any washing?

 

[warwickshire]

6 coaches of set NL58 entered service yesterday. I think this just leaves one red set to enter service. There are also some other 8 coach sets running with 6 or 7 coaches.

NL51 57 AND 56 ALSO are in service so that leaves just two more. As far as I am aware.

 

[WesternLancer]

2 red sets must have passed each other near Chesterfield yesterday afternoon. At a distance they looked good, closer up they looked very battle weary!

EMR may be cleaning interiors but externally almost all their units currently look filthy. Where and when do they do any washing?

Yes, since the EMT sets were generally reasonably clean on the outside how is it that EMR sets / fleet has now descended to a lower dirty standard?

On a related Q can anyone list / update on which 'original' interior HST sets are still operating with EMR (thanks @43055 for update on red set roll out)?

 

[Hairy Bear]

They get washed at Derby and Neville Hill each night unless it drops below freezing. One set stays at Cricklewood overnight but doesn't get washed. There was a problem with the Derby wash plant in the past few weeks. The 6 coach angel never gets washed because they seem to think it doesn't need it .

 

[Wyrleybart]

They get washed at Derby and Neville Hill each night unless it drops below freezing. One set stays at Cricklewood overnight but doesn't get washed. There was a problem with the Derby wash plant in the past few weeks. The 6 coach angel never gets washed because they seem to think it doesn't need it .

Is it the case that a predominantly white train with splashes of red shows grime far more than the bluey grey of the EMR livery ?

 

[43055]

On a related Q can anyone list / update on which 'original' interior HST sets are still operating with EMR (thanks @43055 for update on red set roll out)?

I will see what I can find out later when I finish work in regards to sets.

 

[WesternLancer]

Is it the case that a predominantly white train with splashes of red shows grime far more than the bluey grey of the EMR livery ?

Anyone with a white / light coloured car probably knows that how good they are are disguising dirt....ie not good at all!

I will see what I can find out later when I finish work in regards to sets.

Thanks!

 

[Bald Rick]

Anyone with a white / light coloured car probably knows that how good they are are disguising dirt....ie not good at all!

But the dirt on a white vehicle is very good at disguising the scratches

 

[43055]

@WesternLancer This is to the best of my knowledge.

Sets in bold are in traffic today (23/11), according to gen on Facebook:

NL are 8 coach sets, DY are 6 coach sets

'blue' sets
NL01 Scrapped/3 coaches to 125 group
NL03 in service
NL04 in service
NL06 Scrapped
NL07 Scrapped
NL08 in service
NL10 last worked 18/11/20
NL11 last worked 20/11/20
NL12 in service (7 coaches)

DY21 at Barrow Hill
DY22 at Barrow Hill
DY23 in service

'red' sets
NL51 in service (6 coaches)
NL56 in service
NL57 in service (6 coaches)
NL58 in service (6 coaches)

 

[WesternLancer]

But the dirt on a white vehicle is very good at disguising the scratches

Maybe that is why EMR need to leave a lot of dirt on the stock then!

@WesternLancer This is to the best of my knowledge.

Sets in bold are in traffic today (23/11), according to gen on Facebook:

NL are 8 coach sets, DY are 6 coach sets

'blue' sets
NL01 Scrapped/3 coaches to 125 group
NL03 in service
NL04 in service
NL06 Scrapped
NL07 Scrapped
NL08 in service
NL10 last worked 18/11/20
NL11 last worked 20/11/20
NL12 in service (7 coaches)

DY21 at Barrow Hill
DY22 at Barrow Hill
DY23 in service

'red' sets
NL51 in service (6 coaches)
NL56 in service
NL57 in service (6 coaches)
NL58 in service (6 coaches)

Many thanks - v helpful overview of the state of play.

Perhaps worthy of being 'pinned' to the thread heading and updated from time to time as we get into the final months of HST service on the MML?

 

[43096]

@WesternLancer This is to the best of my knowledge.

Sets in bold are in traffic today (23/11), according to gen on Facebook:

NL are 8 coach sets, DY are 6 coach sets

'blue' sets
NL01 Scrapped/3 coaches to 125 group
NL03 in service
NL04 in service
NL06 Scrapped
NL07 Scrapped
NL08 in service
NL10 last worked 18/11/20
NL11 last worked 20/11/20
NL12 in service (7 coaches)

DY21 at Barrow Hill
DY22 at Barrow Hill
DY23 in service

'red' sets
NL51 in service (6 coaches)
NL56 in service
NL57 in service (6 coaches)
NL58 in service (6 coaches)

There's a Neville Hill to Sims Newport path in on Wednesday - don't expect NL10 to work again.

 

[43055]

Maybe that is why EMR need to leave a lot of dirt on the stock then!

Many thanks - v helpful overview of the state of play.

Perhaps worthy of being 'pinned' to the thread heading and updated from time to time as we get into the final months of HST service on the MML?

I'm not sure how to pin a post but I can update when required. I may add this to the main list on the EMR branding thread and then copy across when applicable like I have done with the 360's.

There's a Neville Hill to Sims Newport path in on Wednesday - don't expect NL10 to work again.

Unfortunately not surpriseing considering another red set has come into use.

 

[158722]

@WesternLancer This is to the best of my knowledge.

Sets in bold are in traffic today (23/11), according to gen on Facebook:

NL are 8 coach sets, DY are 6 coach sets

'blue' sets
NL01 Scrapped/3 coaches to 125 group
NL03 in service
NL04 in service
NL06 Scrapped
NL07 Scrapped
NL08 in service
NL10 last worked 18/11/20
NL11 last worked 20/11/20
NL12 in service (7 coaches)

DY21 at Barrow Hill
DY22 at Barrow Hill
DY23 in service

'red' sets
NL51 in service (6 coaches)
NL56 in service
NL57 in service (6 coaches)
NL58 in service (6 coaches)

Anyone able to confirm which coaches have been removed from NL51, 57 & 58?