They didn't say it like that. It was a .15% increase on overtime, RMT said it was a "15% increase on blue book terms" to make it look like it was an offer of a raise and stir up trouble.So it’s a 15% increase on the overtime rate then. .15 of £1 and 15% of £1 are the same thing.
My point being the RMT were trying to stir up division between grades by what they wrote and how they wrote it. They're not stupid, they knew exactly what they were doing.A multiplier of 1.15 (sometimes written as *1.15) and an increase of 15% (sometimes written as +15%) are definitely the same thing.
My point being the RMT were trying to stir up division between grades by what they wrote and how they wrote it. They're not stupid, they knew exactly what they were doing.
The drivers I know at TPE felt very much that it was a go at them, especially as many guards had been asking them why they were being offered a 15% pay rise.They weren’t.
The RMT reps are currently seeking an enhancement of the existing 2010 green book conditions regarding overtime. They were told pretty much point blank, no.
ASLEF reps onbehalf of the drivers did the same, and sought after a similar agreement and the company later came back with a time and 15%.
RMT aren’t having a go at the drivers themselves nor ASLEF, but the company for treating the two grades with completely different distain, despite both being required to physically run trains in passenger service. RMT are not verbally attacking or slating drivers, but simply stating that they’ve been told no, but at the same time they’re saying yes to other areas of the business.
A increase factor of 1.15 is still an increase on 1. It’s not a real terms increase, but we all know the RD and overtime payments will never be the same rate as they were previously (although I do agree they should be higher than 15% as it’s not worth getting out of bed for)
I think the only sensible solution to the WCML services will be an emergency timetable as the level of daily cancellations is now high each day.Aside from the ongoing strikes on sundays, there have been alot of cancellations on the TPE North route and liverpool to glasgow amongs others. Tomorrow (28th may), amongst the worst hit is the liverpool to newcastle route, i wonder how long this could go on for? I believe there are lot of absences in the york TPE depot too.
Or they could get over depots to to work west coast services. Liverpool depot could easily run the 3 services out towards Preston/ Carlisle with a Preston or Glasgow member to cover the rest or even open an edinburgh TPEdepot so they can focus on the east coast and Glasgow crews can focus on just west coast servicesI think the only sensible solution to the WCML services will be an emergency timetable as the level of daily cancellations is now high each day.
The obvious problem to this is when the trains do run they are very busy.
Long term though things can't carry on as Northern are now starting to cancel trains on the West side and Avanti also have some bad days of shortages.
So, why can't a driver just work a rest day anyway? I guess I can see that having an agreement in place is helpful but if TPE offers overtime then why can't the individual driver decide whether and when to work extra? That could keep things ticking over, and be good for the passenger and the company, while a new agreement is being sorted out. I have always been mystified about situations where a union seems to feel it should intervene in an arrangement that is essentially about the contract between employer and employee. I've always seen unions as being there to help members, not tell them what to do.Not quite as clear cut as that. ASLEF removed the RDW agreement due to a disagreement about covid measures. The company seem happy enough without one, as negotiations have only just started about a new agreement. Drivers didn't directly have a say in it either way.
I think the clue is in the first word of the expression "collective bargaining". To be an effective helper of its members there is an expectation that its membership will act in unity. Another expression which is sometimes cited in this context is "united we stand - divided we fall".So, why can't a driver just work a rest day anyway? I guess I can see that having an agreement in place is helpful but if TPE offers overtime then why can't the individual driver decide whether and when to work extra? That could keep things ticking over, and be good for the passenger and the company, while a new agreement is being sorted out. I have always been mystified about situations where a union seems to feel it should intervene in an arrangement that is essentially about the contract between employer and employee. I've always seen unions as being there to help members, not tell them what to do.
I have always been mystified about situations where a union seems to feel it should intervene in an arrangement that is essentially about the contract between employer and employee.
If money wasn't an issue I suspect the DFT would agree to a RD work agreement as that's much cheaper than any other options and wouldn't impact on crewing at other locations.Or they could get over depots to to work west coast services. Liverpool depot could easily run the 3 services out towards Preston/ Carlisle with a Preston or Glasgow member to cover the rest or even open an edinburgh TPEdepot so they can focus on the east coast and Glasgow crews can focus on just west coast services
Yes. Same as when ASLEF pulled Northern’s RDW agreement. Elected reps, as you say. But drivers weren’t consulted, and lots of them are unhappy about RDW disappearing.Maybe not directly, but they're still the people who the union representatives are elected to give voice to.
You’ve failed to mention drivers are sufficiently well paid to absorb a long term refusal of overtime otherwise a sizeable proportion simply wouldn’t observe such bans without adequate compensation form their union.With all due respect if you’re mystified as to why a union would “intervene” in these matters then you fundamentally misunderstand what unions are and their raison d’etre.
Any of those solutions would take a very long time. Whilst they potentially make sense from a long term perspective, they aren't going to solve the current issues.Or they could get over depots to to work west coast services. Liverpool depot could easily run the 3 services out towards Preston/ Carlisle with a Preston or Glasgow member to cover the rest or even open an edinburgh TPEdepot so they can focus on the east coast and Glasgow crews can focus on just west coast services
You’ve failed to mention drivers are sufficiently well paid to absorb a long term refusal of overtime otherwise a sizeable proportion simply wouldn’t observe such bans without adequate compensation form their union.
Other professions might not be as well paid or just have a far better relationship & understanding with their employer than much of the railway does.
You’ve failed to mention drivers are generally sufficiently well paid to absorb a long term refusal of overtime whereas many other professions might not be.,yes theoretically every workforce should have an equivalently strong union but most of us live on the real world where government doesn’t underweight everything
You probably don’t live in an area served by TPE if you think the word success should be associated with either it’s unions or managementYou're failing to mention most of them understand that is largely due to the success of the union,
You probably don’t live in an area served by TPE if you think the word success should be associated with either it’s unions or management
if you think the word success should be associated with either it’s unions or management