Trivia: Largest settlement in Great Britain which has never had an Intercity rail service

[BeijingDave]

'Frequent'? If you mean the CLC line, has it ever seen more than two stopping trains an hour? Manchester end, even less.

"As of the May 2022 timetable, an average of eight trains an hour stop at Warrington Central at off-peak times." If you're a Warringtonian, I'd say that is a fairly 'frequent' service.

As I recall, it was at its worst for a brief period in the 80s when there would be an hourly stopper in each direction between Manchester and Hunts Cross (somewhat uselessly as most Liverpool-bound passengers wouldn't have expected to change), with an hourly fast in each direction between Liverpool Lime Street and Hull.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Portsmouth and Weymouth would be perfect examples

 

[pompeyfan]

Portsmouth and Weymouth would be perfect examples

Except for the fact both were served by 47 + Mk2 until the voyagers came on stream, Voyagers also served Portsmouth for a few years.

158s also used to run Portsmouth - North West services via Guildford

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Except for the fact both were served by 47 + Mk2 until the voyagers came on stream, Voyagers also served Portsmouth for a few years.

158s also used to run Portsmouth - North West services via Guildford

They used 158s for a 4-5 hour long journey!!!???

Interesting, did not know that XC used to go to Portsmouth and Weymouth. I assume Weymouth used to be an extension of the current Manchester-Bournemouth line right?

 

[pompeyfan]

They used 158s for a 4-5 hour long journey!!!???

Interesting, did not know that XC used to go to Portsmouth and Weymouth. I assume Weymouth used to be an extension of the current Manchester-Bournemouth line right?

There are several threads on here regarding Portsmouth to Liverpool and Blackpool. They used a mixture of 158s, 47+Mk2 and HSTs.

Regarding the Weymouth services they are mentioned above, I believe they were essentially extensions of Manchester - Bournemouth services.

 

[plugwash]

They used 158s for a 4-5 hour long journey!!!???

Liverpool to Norwich is over 5 hours and until recently 158s were the nicest rolling stock used on the route (it now seems there are some 170s in the mix too).

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Don't get me wrong, I do like the 158s, they have really comfortable seats. But I question whether they are suited to a 4-5 hour long intercity journey which ideally should be something like an 80x, Voyager or loco hauled set (e.g. 68+Mk3 like what Chiltern Railways has on its fast London-Birmingham services or HSTs)

 

[urbophile]

"As of the May 2022 timetable, an average of eight trains an hour stop at Warrington Central at off-peak times." If you're a Warringtonian, I'd say that is a fairly 'frequent' service.

As I recall, it was at its worst for a brief period in the 80s when there would be an hourly stopper in each direction between Manchester and Hunts Cross (somewhat uselessly as most Liverpool-bound passengers wouldn't have expected to change), with an hourly fast in each direction between Liverpool Lime Street and Hull.

8 trains an hour: isn't that 4 in each direction? Not bad I agree but many lines have a far more frequent service.

 

[zwk500]

8 trains an hour: isn't that 4 in each direction? Not bad I agree but many lines have a far more frequent service.

A train every 15 minutes is positively enviable!

 

[urbophile]

A train every 15 minutes is positively enviable!

Since most of them are run by Northern I wouldn't bank on it.

 

[zwk500]

Since most of them are run by Northern I wouldn't bank on it.

The reliability of the advertised service is a different question.

 

[Falcon1200]

AFAIK Harlow could be a good contender for this

During my time working at Harlow Town (1978-80) my preferred trains to and from Liverpool Street were the Cambridge loco-hauled services which stopped there; Whether these could be called Inter-City is debatable however as they were frequently Class 31-hauled!

 

[plugwash]

A train every 15 minutes is positively enviable!

A train every 15 minutes in each direction would be positively enviable.

But what they actually mean when they talk about four trains per hour in each direction. is two stoppers and two fast trains. The fast trains tend to catch up with the stoppers, and the slow trains terminate at Oxford road rather than running through to Piccadilly. So although there are four trains scheduled towards Manchester only two of them are actually much use for people travelling to Manchester.

Oh and one of the two fast trains seems to be missing at the moment, either not running at all or running empty coaching stock.

 

[zwk500]

A train every 15 minutes in each direction would be positively enviable.

But what they actually mean when they talk about four trains per hour in each direction. is two stoppers and two fast trains. The fast trains tend to catch up with the stoppers, and the slow trains terminate at Oxford road rather than running through to Piccadilly. So although there are four trains scheduled towards Manchester only two of them are actually much use for people travelling to Manchester.

Oh and one of the two fast trains seems to be missing at the moment, either not running at all or running empty coaching stock.

Still a pretty good service compared to lots of lines.

 

[Farmer1997]

I can recall using the early morning Virgin service into London from Northampton when it ran and also the late Virgin service back from Wolverhampton once. I can remember the Virgin Manchester service from Northampton that’s been mentioned as well but never caught it; where did it call at ?

 

[jfollows]

I can recall using the early morning Virgin service into London from Northampton when it ran and also the late Virgin service back from Wolverhampton once. I can remember the Virgin Manchester service from Northampton that’s been mentioned as well but never caught it; where did it call at ?

1H78 09:38 SX Euston to Piccadilly in 2008 called at Northampton 10:24-10:26, Rugby 10:46-10:47, Nuneaton 11:00-11:02, Tamworth 11:19, Lichfield 11:25, Crewe 12:04-12:09, Wilmslow 12:30, Stockport 12D40-12D42, Piccadilly 12:51. See https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_c8d9d8b8-6b68-459e-9ba1-75ddec0114ae/

I didn't ever catch it either.

 

[Farmer1997]

1H78 09:38 SX Euston to Piccadilly in 2008 called at Northampton 10:24-10:26, Rugby 10:46-10:47, Nuneaton 11:00-11:02, Tamworth 11:19, Lichfield 11:25, Crewe 12:04-12:09, Wilmslow 12:30, Stockport 12D40-12D42, Piccadilly 12:51. See https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_c8d9d8b8-6b68-459e-9ba1-75ddec0114ae/

I didn't ever catch it either.

Thanks, I do recall the approximate departure time from Northampton but not the details

 

[jfollows]

Thanks, I do recall the approximate departure time from Northampton but not the details

Also, it didn't run any more from May 2009 when the full Virgin high speed timetable was implemented.

 

[JD2168]

Rotherham?

 

[jfollows]

Rotherham?

We had this earlier, I think, and I have memories of getting loco-hauled trains there (to the old station, Masborough) from Sheffield in the 1970s.

EDIT It even appeared in Table 51 in the all-line timetable, for example the 17:13 Rotherham-Cardiff in this extract (16:36 from Leeds) (May 1974 timetable):

 

[Iskra]

For a number of years Barnsley had a through HST to/from St Pancras. Basically an ECS move from Neville Hill utilised to provide the service.

Midland Mainline briefly linked it to London too.

 

[Jonny]

In terms of Tyne and Wear borough areas, South Tyneside and North Tyneside?

 

[Taunton]

By Population I'd say its Birkenhead followed by Southend.

Birkenhead Woodside long had through daily services to London Paddington, via Shrewsbury and Birmingham.

 

[urbophile]

Still a pretty good service compared to lots of lines.

Compared to lots of lines between two major cities with a large town en route?

 

[zwk500]

Compared to lots of lines between two major cities with a large town en route?

Yes, much of the south east is 2tph.

 

[BeijingDave]

This is correct, and in the north west St. Helens beats Birkenhead by 14,000 people. However, I can't remember whether or not Liverpool - Glasgow Intercity services in the 80s ever stopped at St Helens. I have a feeling their first stop out of Liverpool was Wigan, but I may be wrong.

*I know some Trans Pennine Express Liverpool - Glasgow services do, though.

Birkenhead Woodside long had through daily services to London Paddington, via Shrewsbury and Birmingham.

 

[paul1609]

This is correct, and in the north west St. Helens beats Birkenhead by 14,000 people. However, I can't remember whether or not Liverpool - Glasgow Intercity services in the 80s ever stopped at St Helens. I have a feeling their first stop out of Liverpool was Wigan, but I may be wrong.

*I know some Trans Pennine Express Liverpool - Glasgow services do, though.

I think both St Helens stations had stops on the Liverpool to Glasgow/ Edinburgh Intercity services at various times, whereas Birkenhead Woodside closed in 1967 with the services cut back to Wolverhampton which seems to allow Birkenhead to qualify under the OPs criterion.

 

[CunningPlan]

Don't get me wrong, I do like the 158s, they have really comfortable seats. But I question whether they are suited to a 4-5 hour long intercity journey which ideally should be something like an 80x, Voyager or loco hauled set...

158s were the traction of choice for the now-defunct Brighton-Cardiff Alphaline services: an end-to-end journey on those (including the trundle between Havant and Southampton, plus reversal at Bristol TM) would be in the same ballpark of journey time.

 

[Western Sunset]

158s still regularly used on the +3hr Cardiff - Portsmouth journey.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

158s were the traction of choice for the now-defunct Brighton-Cardiff Alphaline services: an end-to-end journey on those (including the trundle between Havant and Southampton, plus reversal at Bristol TM) would be in the same ballpark of journey time.

Hardly an Intercity route though; it's all very much on secondary lines for the whole journey.