Trivia: Largest settlement in Great Britain which has never had an Intercity rail service

[D365]

Cambridge?

Cambridge had 'InterCity' trains from Liverpool Street before the Royston electrification was extended.

(Oops - I've just spotted that this has been pointed out)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do find it odd that the OP has included both present day "Inter-city" services and services under the InterCity brand in the British Rail era, seeing as it seems the criteria was very different for the two. After all, as alluded to in earlier posts, in British Rail times the Waterloo & City Line of all things was considered National Rail.

 

[D365]

PS: I might only be a few months off twenty, which seems young to some perhaps, but please try not to use phrases that make it seem as though I’m seven, even if it’s just in jest

I have relatives who get called "young man" at the age of ~50, and they were certainly old enough to have travelled to Cambridge on an InterCity.

I do find it odd that the OP has included both present day "Inter-city" services and services under the InterCity brand in the British Rail era, seeing as it seems the criteria was very different for the two.

Is that not the intention of this thread? To compare and contrast how 'InterCity' branded trains have changed since BR.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I have relatives who get called "young man" at the age of ~50, and they were certainly old enough to have travelled to Cambridge on an InterCity.

That's all very well and good. I personally considered the tone of the message to be patronising. All some days ago now though, and a closed matter.

Is that not the intention of this thread? To compare and contrast how 'InterCity' branded trains have changed since BR.

Goodness how you're keeping my alert count up today!

I personally understood the thread was intended to find out the communities that have only really received local or commuter services. London to Cambridge is a short-distance service operated today by commuter stock yet branded under British Rail as "InterCity" ; other areas by contrast may have long-distance services operated with InterCity style stock today, but would not have been an "InterCity" destination, and therefore I questioned having both as criteria. A bit like having a science experiment and having no control variables.

 

[BurtonM]

Did Rochdale (pop 107k) ever have an intercity service?

 

[jfollows]

Did Rochdale (pop 107k) ever have an intercity service?

1A16 06:43 Rochdale to London Euston run by First NorthWestern in 1998. Was joined by 1F03 06:27 from Blackpool North at Warrington Bank Quay at 07:34. Arrived in London at 10:32 after being sent slow line at Tring. The 07:30 from Manchester Piccadilly (1A17) arrived in London Euston at 10:00. The Rochdale experiment wasn't a success. And, no, this doesn't meet any of the criteria set in the first post in this thread, I know!
From https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_d7186483-15d5-4b4d-a4b3-522ae7e52009/:

 

[daodao]

Did Rochdale (pop 107k) ever have an intercity service?

In the distant past:

• Liverpool (Exchange) to Newcastle-upon-Tyne restaurant car expresses via Wakefield (Kirkgate) used to call at Rochdale.
• There were frequent expresses from Liverpool (Exchange) to Bradford and Leeds, that generally divided at Low Moor.
• Through expresses called at Rochdale en route via Knottingley to Hull and pre-WW1 once daily to Doncaster, where through carriages were attached to the North Country Continental to Harwich Parkeston Quay
• There were through carriages to London (Euston), attached to Manchester expresses at Stockport (Edgeley); these trains called at Oldham (Clegg St) and Ashton (Oldham Rd).

I accept that this was before the BR InterCity brand was coined, but they illustrate the long-distance connections that were available in the Railway Age.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Sandwell and Dudley (SAD) had inter city stops when it first opened.

Ah, but that's in Oldbury (Sandwell), which is miles away from Dudley...

Whereas Stourbridge Junction is in the Dudley Borough (that gets the Chultern Mainline silver sets)

Dudley? Despite having 2 stations with the name in their title they both happen to come under Sandwell council.

It has the Chiltern Mainline silver service from Stourbridge though (which is in the Dudley borough)

Didn't it also have (pre Beeching) a London service via Worcester?

 

[WizCastro197]

There are several threads on here regarding Portsmouth to Liverpool and Blackpool. They used a mixture of 158s, 47+Mk2 and HSTs.

Regarding the Weymouth services they are mentioned above, I believe they were essentially extensions of Manchester - Bournemouth services.

Yes they were during the Olympics in 2012 where sailing was held in Weymouth so XC services extended.

 

[pompeyfan]

Yes they were during the Olympics in 2012 where sailing was held in Weymouth so XC services extended.

i had thought it was just a rumour however there are some great pictures and website via Google, this one particularly got my attention.

Railway Operations during the Olympics: Weymouth

 

[D6968]

Ah, but that's in Oldbury (Sandwell), which is miles away from Dudley...

Whereas Stourbridge Junction is in the Dudley Borough (that gets the Chultern Mainline silver sets)


It has the Chiltern Mainline silver service from Stourbridge though (which is in the Dudley borough)

Didn't it also have (pre Beeching) a London service via Worcester?

Stourbridge is even further away from Dudley though!

 

[WizCastro197]

i had thought it was just a rumour however there are some great pictures and website via Google, this one particularly got my attention.

Railway Operations during the Olympics: Weymouth

Thanks for this, it has some nice pictures. Wasn't aware there was a Bournemouth-Weymouth shuttle in operation (for the benefit of the sailing), I'd of thought they would've had increased services from London rather than asking people to change a Bournemouth and wait.

 

[route101]

Woking also. Perhaps Salisbury?

There might of been Cross Country services to Manchester via Bristol in the early days.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for this, it has some nice pictures. Wasn't aware there was a Bournemouth-Weymouth shuttle in operation (for the benefit of the sailing), I'd of thought they would've had increased services from London rather than asking people to change a Bournemouth and wait.

The services from Waterloo had already been increased to 2 tph in anticipation of the Olympics, from 2008 IIRC. The long-standing electrical restrictions in the whole area west of Poole would have been the main reason for DMUs also being used as extra capacity. Although I seem to remember all the discussion at the time was about the capacity provided being too much.

 

[Andyjs247]

Has Walsall ever had an InterCity service to anywhere?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Has Walsall ever had an InterCity service to anywhere?

If I remember correctly there was plans as part of Avanti's franchise bid

Stourbridge is even further away from Dudley though!

But at least its in the same Council area

 

[Jack Hay]

'Frequent'? If you mean the CLC line, has it ever seen more than two stopping trains an hour? Manchester end, even less.

Some confusion here. Manchester-Warrington-Liverpool is the line usually referred to as the CLC, and it has had a mix of express and stopping services ever since the day it opened with four an hour (two of each) until the Covid cuts. The Mid Cheshire Line is Manchester-Altrincham-Northwich-Chester and it was also a CLC route. It has rarely had an express service and hasn't got one now but it did have three trains an hour between Manchester and Knutsford in the peaks, until the diversion via Stockport in 1989 reduced the frequency.

"As of the May 2022 timetable, an average of eight trains an hour stop at Warrington Central at off-peak times." If you're a Warringtonian, I'd say that is a fairly 'frequent' service.

That timetable was never actually operated with the withdrawal of the Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester Airport express service, so there are three per hour each way, not evenly spaced.

 

[davidknibb]

Kenilworth. Pop 22500 in 2021. Closed by BR in 1965 - and reopened in 2018. The reopened station has had no 'Inter City' services - and sometimes has no service at all for weeks on end due to staff problems. I've checked a couple of old Bradshaws and can not find any long distance services stopping .
I suppose that there may have been such services - probably for brief periods - in the dim and distant past

 

[androdas]

In terms of Tyne and Wear borough areas, South Tyneside and North Tyneside?

Didn't North Shields (Commissioners Quay) have a boat train from Kings Cross to meet the Norway ferrys until the 70s? Would this have been branded InterCity?

 

[work-traveller]

Dudley? Despite having 2 stations with the name in their title they both happen to come under Sandwell council.

On that basis, wouldn't Dudley be ineligible, as it wouldn't be considered to actually have a station?

 

[Purple Orange]

All Greater London boroughs, except Westminster, Camden, Lambeth, Southwark, Kensington & Chelsea and the City of London too.

All Greater Manchester boroughs, except for City of Manchester, Bolton, Stockport and Wigan.

Ergo, the majority of London & Manchester has not had an Intercity service.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The Mid Cheshire Line is Manchester-Altrincham-Northwich-Chester and it was also a CLC route. It has rarely had an express service and hasn't got one now but it did have three trains an hour between Manchester and Knutsford in the peaks, until the diversion via Stockport in 1989 reduced the frequency.

Speaking of which, Altrincham must be the biggest settlement on the line without an intercity service. That said, did it ever have one?

(I would list Northwich, but I'm pretty sure Hartford used to have Voyagers stop sometime during VXC days)

 

[jfollows]

Speaking of which, Altrincham must be the biggest settlement on the line without an intercity service. That said, did it ever have one?

(I would list Northwich, but I'm pretty sure Hartford used to have Voyagers stop sometime during VXC days)

Hartford had trains in BR days, and before, there have been several discussions here on the topic. There was a Euston-Liverpool service first stop Hartford in the AC electric BR days, for example.
EDIT EG 1983-84 1F62 19:30 Euston-Liverpool Lime Street, Hartford 21aD39.5 (so arrive one minute earlier to set down only). In this particular timetable it also called at Lichfield Trent Valley, but that was the only intermediate call.
FURTHER EDIT In 1998 there was still 1P65 17:05 Euston-Liverpool Lime Street which called at Hartford 19pa18, with calls at Milton Keynes, Rugby, Stafford & Crewe, the "P" in the headcode at this time indicated that it was a "Pullman" service I recall.

 

[Recessio]

Does Gatwick Express count as Intercity?

 

[WizCastro197]

Does Gatwick Express count as Intercity?

Yes. I believe so at one point.

 

[paul1609]

Does Gatwick Express count as Intercity?

Yes Gatwick Express was deliberately taken off the Southern Regions books in to the Inter City sector. If it had been a Network Southeast line Intercity would have never been profitable.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also St Pancras trains.
Before the InterCity designation was applied but Birkenhead used to have expresses to Paddington.

And to Euston (tacked onto the back of North Wales trains).

Places like Bracknell (pop 117,000) are typical of London suburban towns, mainly south of the Thames, without an inter-city service.

 

[Merle Haggard]

1H78 09:38 SX Euston to Piccadilly in 2008 called at Northampton 10:24-10:26, Rugby 10:46-10:47, Nuneaton 11:00-11:02, Tamworth 11:19, Lichfield 11:25, Crewe 12:04-12:09, Wilmslow 12:30, Stockport 12D40-12D42, Piccadilly 12:51. See https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_c8d9d8b8-6b68-459e-9ba1-75ddec0114ae/

I didn't ever catch it either.

I didn't catch it either. The day I waited for it, the signaller routed it old line and the driver didn't query the route.
Until lockdown there was a Virgin/Avanti WC 06.43 Northampton Euston, which was the last vestige of the 'Cobbler' trains - it had originated in NSE days by intercepting an Oxley Euston I-C E.C.S. working. Double Voyager, and usually very well loaded from Northampton, but obviously the days of long distance daily commuting are over for good.
There's still a late evening up Scottish train that calls at Northampton to set down only just after midnight - quite often, a bus from Rugby due to engineering work, though. Wouldn't risk it myself - be too alert to hearing the sound of running through a long tunnel after leaving Rugby...

 

[route101]

Cambridge had 'InterCity' trains from Liverpool Street before the Royston electrification was extended.

(Oops - I've just spotted that this has been pointed out)

Has Cambridge been served by the Harwich boat train?

 

[Magdalia]

Didn't North Shields (Commissioners Quay) have a boat train from Kings Cross to meet the Norway ferrys until the 70s? Would this have been branded InterCity?

Through carriages between Kings Cross and Tyne Commission Quay were still being provided in 1967, but by 1969 it was a connecting service at Newcastle. The 1968 timetable is vague on whether there are through carriages or not.

I suspect that through working ended when air braked rolling stock was introduced.

Has Cambridge been served by the Harwich boat train?

No, apart from the occasional diversions when the route via Chelmsford was blocked.

But Ely did have the North Country Continental boat train and its successors. I suspect that was branded Inter City during the period when it worked through to/from Glasgow.