UK Emergency Alert Tests

[Busaholic]

As King Charles might well have said if he'd been affected, not an auspicious start, or even end, to one's 75th birthday. A balloon might have been preferable. My phone will be in an appropriate sand bucket.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The difference, of course, being that if one were to scream "Fire!" then everyone will react at the same time, whereas with an emergency alert some people won't have their phones turned on or with them, some people will look at the alert immediately, and others will ignore it completely.

Regardless, virtually all will be caught up in a contagion of mass hysteria once a small number start to react. If the message said 'fire in screen 3' and the advice was 'please remain seated until escorted from the building'. How many people would read and react to the first part only? Once others start running for the exit just how difficult is it to remain seated. I suggest very difficult, especially if you don't have direct access to the message because your phone is turned off or at home.

At Grenfell recently, and at Summerland (Ise of Man) all those years ago the advice was to stay put, it's a small thing, it's being dealt with, no need to be alarmed.

 

[najaB]

Regardless, virtually all will be caught up in a contagion of mass hysteria once a small number start to react. If the message said 'fire in screen 3' and the advice was 'please remain seated until escorted from the building'. How many people would read and react to the first part only? Once others start running for the exit just how difficult is it to remain seated. I suggest very difficult, especially if you don't have direct access to the message because your phone is turned off or at home.

This really is a non-issue. There is zero intention (and I would say ability) to target messages that precisely.

And, assuming that it would be possible, how would the resulting panic be any different to that which would ensue if a fire alarm went off or people started to smell smoke?

 

[Meerkat]

Satnavs have basically rendered RDS redundant, but I did think the same, yes. I can actually remember the RDS tones because a number of radio stations used to incorporate them into their traffic jingle.

I used to enjoy the RDS on a long journey down the M6 - local radio meant you got all the local accents (sorry Black Country folk, but your accent just is funny) and they would usually overrun into some Partridge style local radio.

Causing a cinema full of people, or a ground full of football fans to stampede for the exit might not be such a good idea. What could possibly go wrong? Might as well go to the front / centre spot and hysterically scream fire.

What kind of alert is going to make people stampede for the door? The alert is either going to be 'stay in place' or one that requires you to get home soon rather than NOW, and will probably be ignored by a load of people who will finish their film/football/food/drink first (and of course all the conspiracy people who will have switched the function off!)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A point here:

If this system can over-ride the settings on the phone so that it sounds when it's on silent / do not disturb, how do we know that changing the settings to disable emergency alerts won't be over-ridden in any case?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I'm sick of the media saying the phone will emit a "siren" like noise. It sounds nothing like a siren, its just some annoying beeping. Scaring people for no reason.

 

[Broucek]

I had one of these in the US a few years ago. It just said that there was severe local flooding and to be cautious. Worked pretty well.

 

[najaB]

I'm sick of the media saying the phone will emit a "siren" like noise. It sounds nothing like a siren,

Give how different a US-style fire truck siren sounds to an old-school French police siren, I'm not sure that there's any single sound that meets the definition of 'siren-like'.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Give how different a US-style fire truck siren sounds to an old-school French police siren, I'm not sure that there's any single sound that meets the definition of 'siren-like'.

They could make it sound like a Carter siren...? Personally I think I'd actually prefer that!

 

[RichJF]

I'm struggling to see the fear that some are getting into because of this! Canada, France (to some extent), Japan, NZ & the USA all have them.

I had one of these in the US a few years ago. It just said that there was severe local flooding and to be cautious. Worked pretty well.

In the US they mirror the TV EAS broadcasts onto phones for things like natural disasters or escaped criminals. I guess this is what the UK system is for.
Yes the US has many issues but having visited a relative in the USA who lives in a tornado/wildfire prone area the emergency alert system works pretty well.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Give how different a US-style fire truck siren sounds to an old-school French police siren, I'm not sure that there's any single sound that meets the definition of 'siren-like'.

Well a siren is a loud sound which ungulates it's pitch and the same speed repeatedly. Not something that beeps.

 

[najaB]

Well a siren is a loud sound which ungulates it's pitch and the same speed repeatedly. Not something that beeps.

Not always.

 

[Ediswan]

Well a siren is a loud sound which ungulates it's pitch and the same speed repeatedly.

Maybe whale song would be better

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm sure the phone beep / siren / whale call will be nothing on the sound of the early warning sirens that were once tested, without many knowing in my area in the early 80s. Literally everyone on my street froze, whilst parents frantically searched all 3 (or 4, I can't remember just when it happened) TV channels and local news channels for info. I am only glad it happened before Chernobyl, that would have caused panic in 1986!

 

[Meerkat]

I'm sure the phone beep / siren / whale call will be nothing on the sound of the early warning sirens that were once tested, without many knowing in my area in the early 80s. Literally everyone on my street froze, whilst parents frantically searched all 3 (or 4, I can't remember just when it happened) TV channels and local news channels for info. I am only glad it happened before Chernobyl, that would have caused panic in 1986!

I grew up near a mental hospital so got used to the warning sirens going off air raid style.
It was said that it was for escapes, but as the patients seemed to wander about I think the theory that the patients kept smoking under the smoke detectors was more likely.
Obviously the place is expensive apartments and generic estate houses now.

 

[Trackman]

A point here:

If this system can over-ride the settings on the phone so that it sounds when it's on silent / do not disturb, how do we know that changing the settings to disable emergency alerts won't be over-ridden in any case?

Not trawling through the whole thread, like my phone (iPhone) I can switch off the emergency alert - is there a post that says this *might* happen?
Anyway...... we'll find out when it happens.

 

[william.martin]

Just noticed this that has been auto installed onto my phones drive.

 

[OscarH]

A point here:

If this system can over-ride the settings on the phone so that it sounds when it's on silent / do not disturb, how do we know that changing the settings to disable emergency alerts won't be over-ridden in any case?

Phones are programmed to ignore silent for these alerts, rather than the system telling them to ignore it. It is theoretically possible the phone could be programmed to ignore you disabling it, but that's down the phone manufacturer not the government system, and I don't think that's likely, because the manufacturer could have just not added the option rather than add it but make it do nothing, so it'd be rather pointless

 

[Zamracene749]

To lighten the mood a little-Father Larry Duff

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Phones are programmed to ignore silent for these alerts, rather than the system telling them to ignore it. It is theoretically possible the phone could be programmed to ignore you disabling it, but that's down the phone manufacturer not the government system, and I don't think that's likely, because the manufacturer could have just not added the option rather than add it but make it do nothing, so it'd be rather pointless

Thank you; that's interesting - I can't even find the setting in mine anyway to have a look at it...

 

[biko]

Over here in the Netherlands, we have had this system since 2012. I’ve never received a real alert, only test alerts. Tests are twice a year, and I think that’s a good balance between testing often enough to have awareness and irregular enough that it isn’t a real nuisance.

The system is mainly used for big fires with dangerous smoke. The alert then advises to stay inside and switch off ventilation. Besides that, I can see they also sent an alert a few months ago for a major power cut which led to people trying to call the emergency services.

So I would say the system as used here works really well. It all depends on the criteria for sending alerts, but I would wait and see before saying it’s a bad idea.

 

[MattA7]

What I found interesting was the part when the government told people to ignore the alerts if driving and reminded of the laws regarding mobile phones when driving.

I think given it’s used to alert of dangerous situations even the most safety conscious of drivers would find it difficult to ignore (remember it overrides silent and is very loud).

Driving aside thankfully you can turn it off in the settings. It’s not just a normal notification sound it’s a loud buzzer like sound similar to the US tv warning

What is the point of warning people of missile strikes anyway, unless you happen to have a underground doomsday bunker in your back garden there isn’t much you can do about it.

 

[najaB]

What is the point of warning people of missile strikes anyway, unless you happen to have a underground doomsday bunker in your back garden there isn’t much you can do about it.

Which makes it a good thing that it's almost certainly never going to be used for warning of nuclear attacks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having done a bit of reading, I note that the facility (which was designed by and for the USA) actually has three levels - Presidential, Extreme and Severe.

Extreme and Severe can be turned off, but Presidential can't.

I wonder if the UK will use all three levels?

 

[MattA7]

Having done a bit of reading, I note that the facility (which was designed by and for the USA) actually has three levels - Presidential, Extreme and Severe.

Extreme and Severe can be turned off, but Presidential can't.

I wonder if the UK will use all three levels?

On my phone you can turn off extreme and severe (obviously there is no presidential in the UK) and it’s a regular IPhone it hasn’t been jail broken or anything so presumably the UK will have two levels.

 

[adc82140]

It's not the principle of the thing that concerns me. It's misuse by the authorities. We all know how everything has to be a melodrama now. I don't want a siren going off every time there's a yellow weather warning for a bit of a rainy day, for example.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not the principle of the thing that concerns me. It's misuse by the authorities. We all know how everything has to be a melodrama now. I don't want a siren going off every time there's a yellow weather warning for a bit of a rainy day, for example.

This is certainly my concern. "Imminent and severe danger to life if urgent action is not taken" should be the criterion used.

 

[PeterY]

I don't have a smart phone, so I wonder if I'll get any sort of message on my dumb phone.

 

[Dent]

This is certainly my concern. "Imminent and severe danger to life if urgent action is not taken" should be the criterion used.

The problem there is that "imminent and severe danger to life if urgent action is not taken" is not really well-defined, and is a label that gets applied to a lot of things whether true or not. If you set that as a criterion then politicians could just use the warning for whatever they feel like on the grounds that they deem whatever it is to be an "imminent and severe danger to life".

 

[william.martin]

Just to see what happens I will run my phones battery down to zero just before they do the test to see what happens.