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Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

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DustyBin

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Apparently if you don’t support vaccine passports you’re an anti-vaxxer. Are these people thick? I’ve no problem with being vaccinated, I have a BIG problem with having to prove it in order to participate in society. They’re two completely separate issues. This has really pushed my buttons, in case you can’t tell!
 
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NSEFAN

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Apparently if you don’t support vaccine passports you’re an anti-vaxxer. Are these people thick? I’ve no problem with being vaccinated, I have a BIG problem with having to prove it in order to participate in society. They’re two completely separate issues. This has really pushed my buttons, in case you can’t tell!
A medical version of "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear"?
 

bramling

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Not that we needed proof of this, but one of many examples here that politicians change their opinions when it supposedly suits them best:




View attachment 93046

I don't think changing opinions is necessarily a problem, indeed in some ways it's the sign of a healthy mind when someone has the capability to weigh up a situation and form a conclusion. The problem with Johnson is that I'm not sure he actually goes through that process of thinking it all through, instead just coming out with whatever seems like a good idea at the time. So we don't really know what he actually believes or what his actual opinion is on a given matter. This is one reason why he's proving so useless, as he thought he could get through the job by bull****ting, and has quickly found this is impracticable. "Follow the science" hasn't really saved him, the only real glimmer for him is that the vaccine programme is going well. I still think on balance he'll be gone some time this year though, though I must admit that is looking slightly more unlikely than might have been the case several months ago (unfortunately - though there's still no one obvious to replace him if he does walk).
 

joncombe

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I think the problem with Boris is he is too easy to manipulate. He previously stated he was opposed to vaccine passports (and ID cards, given the quotes above). Yet a bit of ear bending from the SAGE mob and he's changed his mind. Just has happened so many times before. Unfortunately those with an agenda know he is easy to manipulate.
 

DB

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Great. So people like me who absolutely refuse to take the vaccine need to accept that we are toxic, filthy scum who deserve to be excluded from society.

No doubt some people will end up committing suicide over this, but that might even be the intention from this increasingly fascist dictatorship - a quick way to get get rid of some of those who they clearly regard as the "useless eaters" of our time.
 

35B

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Great. So people like me who absolutely refuse to take the vaccine need to accept that we are toxic, filthy scum who deserve to be excluded from society.

No doubt some people will end up committing suicide over this, but that might even be the intention from this increasingly fascist dictatorship - a quick way to get get rid of some of those who they clearly regard as the "useless eaters" of our time.
No, you need to accept that your choices have consequences. Just as in some places, children whose parents refuse to allow them to be vaccinated, are refused admission to schools and youth activities.
 

liam456

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No, you need to accept that your choices have consequences. Just as in some places, children whose parents refuse to allow them to be vaccinated, are refused admission to schools and youth activities.
I would say people live DavidB have the right to put themselves at risk for no real reason in the case of not accepting a medical procedure. The healthcare system will take care of them like it does to those who dare take risks in their lives that will lead to injuries, or smoke, or drink, e.t.c.

I thought that was the price we all pay for a modicum of freedom?
 

DB

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No, you need to accept that your choices have consequences. Just as in some places, children whose parents refuse to allow them to be vaccinated, are refused admission to schools and youth activities.

Typical of the obnoxious, patronising response I expect from you. How dare you lecture me about "consequences" for not accepting a forced medical treatment. People like you are a danger to society as you enable this sort of fascist behaviour from the vile govermnent which is tightening its grip on this country ever more.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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No, you need to accept that your choices have consequences. Just as in some places, children whose parents refuse to allow them to be vaccinated, are refused admission to schools and youth activities.
Why did I not need to give proof of two negative tests taken three days apart when I visited the pub in October, November and December, when nobody was vaccinated?
 

yorkie

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It may only be possible to introduce a vaccine passports scheme once all adults have been offered a jab, Prime Minister Boris Johnson has suggested.
He said no decisions had been made but there would be an update on the idea in April. A review will report in June.
If vaccine take-up is high, then for domestic purposes, it sounds like there will never be a concept of a vaccine passport for things like pubs etc as vaccination passports will be pointless once almost everyone has been vaccinated.

Clearly some sort of evidence of vaccination is required for international travel (this is not unprecedented and we are at the mercy of the country we are visiting).
 

liam456

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Why did I not need to give proof of two negative tests taken three days apart when I visited the pub in October, November and December, when nobody was vaccinated?
I think now, every single death needs to be seen as an abhorrent tragedy! I wonder when the government will decide to turn off their coronavirus data API's. That's when it will really be over!
 

35B

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Typical of the obnoxious, patronising response I expect from you. How dare you lecture me about "consequences" for not accepting a forced medical treatment. People like you are a danger to society as you enable this sort of fascist behaviour from the vile govermnent which is tightening its grip on this country ever more.
You absolutely have the right to decline a vaccination. That choice, like all others, comes with consequences. One of those consequences may be your personal risk, another may be that on public health grounds, government may mandate or permit some restrictions on where those who are unvaccinated - which is where I've given the example of childhood vaccinations, imposed because of the measles deaths caused by unvaccinated children.

Personally, I think vaccine passports for domestic use would be a waste of time and effort, and cause disproportionate grief for very little gain. But I struggle with the idea that a government seeking to manage public health is acting in the way you describe (I'll not get into the ahistorical and hysterical misuse of terminology).
I would say people live DavidB have the right to put themselves at risk for no real reason in the case of not accepting a medical procedure. The healthcare system will take care of them like it does to those who dare take risks in their lives that will lead to injuries, or smoke, or drink, e.t.c.

I thought that was the price we all pay for a modicum of freedom?
It is. But the point of vaccination, which we easily forget, is that it has a public health effect as well as a personal one.
Why did I not need to give proof of two negative tests taken three days apart when I visited the pub in October, November and December, when nobody was vaccinated?
Because the government hadn't got to the point of having testing available to that degree? Perhaps they should have, but I still feel that the reality is implausible.
 

liam456

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It is. But the point of vaccination, which we easily forget, is that it has a public health effect as well as a personal one.
Absolutely right, but the truth is vaccine deniers (thankfully!) are a minority. And just like with other minorities, we don't trample over them in the name of it "just being easier" for the majority.
 

Eyersey468

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Apparently if you don’t support vaccine passports you’re an anti-vaxxer. Are these people thick? I’ve no problem with being vaccinated, I have a BIG problem with having to prove it in order to participate in society. They’re two completely separate issues. This has really pushed my buttons, in case you can’t tell!
I agree 100%. I expected some kind of vaccine passport wanted from other countries to allow travel but to effectively force people to have the vaccine to be able to participate in society here is overstepping the mark
 

35B

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Absolutely right, but the truth is vaccine deniers (thankfully!) are a minority. And just like with other minorities, we don't trample over them in the name of it "just being easier" for the majority.
Which cuts to the heart of an unsolved - and insoluble - ethical dilemma about vaccination for fatal diseases. At what point does the consequence of one person's refusal to accept a vaccine for themselves or their child reach the point where society is justified in saying that the cost is too high? That's not just about convenience, but lives.

There are a number of very difficult dilemmas like this - the Jehovahs Witness refusal to permit blood transfusion is a classic example - where all possible answers have major problems associated with them.
I agree 100%. I expected some kind of vaccine passport wanted from other countries to allow travel but to effectively force people to have the vaccine to be able to participate in society here is overstepping the mark
I observe a significant overlap between the two groups - and feel that vaccine passports are largely a waste of time and space, and unlikely to be of any value.
 

Eyersey468

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I observe a significant overlap between the two groups - and feel that vaccine passports are largely a waste of time and space, and unlikely to be of any value.
I agree that once everyone has been offered the vaccine a vaccine passport will be a waste of time, it just seems to me they are on about it to try to get people to take it up, I've no problem with them trying to encourage people to have it but it feels more like coercion to me, which I disagree with
 

initiation

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There are currently at least 170k people in the UK with HIV (compared to around 70k with Covid according to ZOE).

People attending night clubs and things like speed dating events, or signing up to dating websites should have to present a HIV passes confirming that they are not HIV positive.


Can you imagine this being suggested pre-2020? Yet this is now the logic being applied to covid passports. It is utterly bats**t insane and, because take up of the vaccine amonng risk groups has been so high, will make bugger all difference.

Many people will have said this was tin foil hat stuff last year yet here we are.

The one point on it being optional is the biggest pub chain (wetherpoons) is owned by someone who appears to be against heavy restrictions. On that basis, any pub who did choose to implement mandatory vaccine passports would, I suspect, lose out on trade.
 

yorkie

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There are currently at least 170k people in the UK with HIV (compared to around 70k with Covid according to ZOE).

People attending night clubs and things like speed dating events, or signing up to dating websites should have to present a HIV passes confirming that they are not HIV positive.
While I accept you have a point to some extent, the analogy does fall down when you consider that Sars-CoV-2 spreads rather more easily.

Also bear in mind that if you are making a comparison of infections, many people who are infected with Sars-CoV-2 do not actually become ill with the disease, Covid19; therefore the 70k could be higher (indeed while the Government claims 33% of infections are asymptomatic, this could potentially be far higher in children, so the true figure of infected individuals could actually be many times higher)

However I do share your concerns over the concept of these 'passports' for domestic purposes.
 

DB

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While I accept you have a point to some extent, the analogy does fall down when you consider that Sars-CoV-2 spreads rather more easily.

But most will recover, unlike with HIV where they will have the virus for life and need lifelong medication.
 

Skimpot flyer

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But most will recover, unlike with HIV where they will have the virus for life and need lifelong medication.
You are assuming the coercion to have the Covid vaccine will only be a 2021 thing, of course. If these outrageous vaccine passports are forced on us, you think you are not going to keep having to have a new shot whenever government decides it’s necessary??
‘Sorry, pal, no entry to this pub without an up-to-date VP...’
 

kez19

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No, you need to accept that your choices have consequences. Just as in some places, children whose parents refuse to allow them to be vaccinated, are refused admission to schools and youth activities.


Oddly enough when things go wrong on a political scale those very people don't suffer the consequnces of their actions so why should we as a general public put up with the BS?, come on its smoke and mirrors.

How many times have these politicians lied to the public that everything would be OK - that the public wouldn't need to do certain things but yet looking at this storm in a teacup they are backtracking on everything that was promised not to happen. Maybe if Jezza was still on air we could throw these people on a lie detector test and judge them ourselves?


I didn't see that many people kick up a fuss regarding children being vaccinated on certain diseases but again I believe in personal choice and it should forever be but if you are happy for the government/tech companies to follow what you do daily etc then be on your own head as I am sure this will be I see is the great awakening and quite possibly the public will realise what is going on.

I guess I can look back on one thing in terms of that programme on the World Service about people believing conspiracies etc - oh how true to life it has become and the media have done a good job in manipulating the public, the media will go down with a big bang.
 
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yorkie

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But most will recover, unlike with HIV where they will have the virus for life and need lifelong medication.
This is true; as with any analogy there will always be difficulties. I do take the point than an argument could potentially be made to require HIV 'passports' for certain scenarios.

No, you need to accept that your choices have consequences. Just as in some places, children whose parents refuse to allow them to be vaccinated, are refused admission to schools and youth activities.
Do you have an example of which vaccines you are referring to and where these places are?
 

Baxenden Bank

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This is true; as with any analogy there will always be difficulties. I do take the point than an argument could potentially be made to require HIV 'passports' for certain scenarios.


Do you have an example of which vaccines you are referring to and where these places are?
I'm not supporting 35B as I think he is incorrect but there was a situation, a few years ago, where measles vaccinations in certain small geographies had declined to the point where herd immunity was not being achieved and there was a rise in cases as a result. As a consequence there was certainly talk (perhaps just one or two headteachers grabbing their 15 minutes of fame) of banning unvaccinated children from schools. It's not my bag so I didn't follow it much at the time or keep clippings!
 

nedchester

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Apparently if you don’t support vaccine passports you’re an anti-vaxxer. Are these people thick? I’ve no problem with being vaccinated, I have a BIG problem with having to prove it in order to participate in society. They’re two completely separate issues. This has really pushed my buttons, in case you can’t tell!
Me too.

I am a massive supporter of the vaccine. I had my first dose on Saturday. I think we should all have the vaccine BUT having to prove it and various other measures absolutely not.
 

johnnychips

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I am actually outraged by this idea of a vaccine passport. Hopefully it is just something being suggested to try and placate the COVID obsessives but has no chance of happening. As somebody pointed out, most hospitality staff are under forty, so it would indeed be bizarre if you couldn’t go into a pub or cinema if you hadn’t been vaccinated, but then if you could get in you could be served by unvaccinated staff.

On another point, I do believe there are indeed nurseries in the US who will not let your children join if they have not been vaccinated as these are private institutions. However all state schools are obliged to admit all children.
 

Gadget88

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