Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

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P Binnersley

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I believe that analysis, but a friend volunteering at the local vaccination centre told me that the 15 minute wait was also introduced because they were having a very small number of incidents with people suffering shock reactions heading to the car park, and losing capacity as first aiders had to step away from vaccination to treating them.
Surely there is no difference in lost capacity if the first aiders treat somebody in a waiting area rather than a car park. They still have to stop vaccinating, give first aid and probably stay with them until an ambulance arrives.
 

Jamiescott1

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Tried to access my vaccine pass on the nhs app tonight to check in for a flight.
I was put in a queue to get to the covid pass section of the app due to high demand.
 

Kite159

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Had my Booster today at Ludgershall (nearby town), booked it yesterday afternoon (so must have had extra slots added during the day as in the morning when I checked on the booking website the closest site showing was in Eastleigh).

Quite busy, including a few walk-ups [guess it was at the end of the day and they had X spare shots from no-shows so better to use them up with people walking up than to throw them in the bin]
 

DelayRepay

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I had my booster this afternoon at a Walk In clinic.

I went past the clinic yesterday and there was a queue out the door and up the street. People on Facebook said they were waiting more than an hour. Today when I passed there was no queue at all - I was in and out in 20 minutes, including the 15 minute obligatory wait after the jab.

There were vaccinators with nobody to vaccinate. My vaccinator asked me to let any friends or neighbours know they were open til 7pm and weren't busy. The person in front of me in the queue wasn't even expecting a vaccine - she'd taken her teenage son for his appointment and they suggested she might as well have hers while she was there.

The problem is the NHS website and local health authority Facebook both say they close at 3pm... They extended it to 7pm on Monday but seem to have forgotten to publicise it!

Pleased to report no side effects at all (so far) - not even a sore arm.
 

35B

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Surely there is no difference in lost capacity if the first aiders treat somebody in a waiting area rather than a car park. They still have to stop vaccinating, give first aid and probably stay with them until an ambulance arrives.
They found otherwise - I think mostly because of the disruption compared with having people observing those waiting and being ready for them.
 

dm1

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Tried to access my vaccine pass on the nhs app tonight to check in for a flight.
I was put in a queue to get to the covid pass section of the app due to high demand.
I find it insane that the rest of Europe (and the world) seems to manage to generate static PDFs valid for 6/9/12 months for vaccine passes/certificates and has apps that allow them to be displayed instantly without an internet connection, while Brits are still expected to visit a website through an app, that then doesn't work when you need it most.

While most of the above mentioned apps are open-source...
 

The Ham

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I find it insane that the rest of Europe (and the world) seems to manage to generate static PDFs valid for 6/9/12 months for vaccine passes/certificates and has apps that allow them to be displayed instantly without an internet connection, while Brits are still expected to visit a website through an app, that then doesn't work when you need it most.

While most of the above mentioned apps are open-source...

As it's a QR based system it should be possible to view the QR code on your phone and take a screen shot of it, then it's likely to be up to the venue you are attending to have internet to check the status.
 

Lampshade

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On iOS (and probably Android) you can add it to the Wallet, download it once then that’s it for the next month.
 

WelshBluebird

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while Brits are still expected to visit a website through an app, that then doesn't work when you need it most.
But that isn't true is it.
The website and app do let you generate a static PDF that you can download and use offline, and as mentioned above iPhones and Android phones have a button in the app to let you add the QR code to the Apple Wallet or Google Pay. Or you can always just take a screenshot of the app, or hell you can even get a paper copy and scan it if you wish.
 

dm1

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But that isn't true is it.
The website and app do let you generate a static PDF that you can download and use offline, and as mentioned above iPhones and Android phones have a button in the app to let you add the QR code to the Apple Wallet or Google Pay. Or you can always just take a screenshot of the app, or hell you can even get a paper copy and scan it if you wish.
But why should you need to go to an unreliable website in the first place? And why are the static versions only valid for 30 days?
 

The Ham

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But why should you need to go to an unreliable website in the first place? And why are the static versions only valid for 30 days?

Unless you are going abroad for a prolonged period of time, chances are you don't need anything longer than 30 days.

Whilst those who do lots of things having one which lasts more than 30 days could be useful, however many would likely get a new one every time they do something (even if it's, say, going to the football once a week).

Probably the main reason for the 30 days is that it's so you can use a positive case as your pass, as they wouldn't renew as it gets close to the then of the time period.
 

DelayRepay

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Probably the main reason for the 30 days is that it's so you can use a positive case as your pass, as they wouldn't renew as it gets close to the then of the time period.

The cynic in me says it's because they always planned to make booster jabs a requirement for a valid certificate, so they have to expire to allow the rules to change.
 

Reliablebeam

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I've tried booking a booster and discovered that I have been given 29th december rather than this coming wednesday, the date I requested. Oh dear..... I'm supposed to be in Wales then assuming Dripford doesn't close the border again. The NHS website keeps suggesting venues in Berkshire and Oxfordshire that are difficult to get to by public transport. I wonder whether I'm better off trying to get to one of these big centres in London. Then again you might catch it in the queue.....
 

DannyMich2018

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Had my booster on Saturday as I had a text with a link from my doctors on Wednesday. Was in Hinckley leisure centre. Loads of walk in people coming in and so quick. No waiting after so was in and out in less than 5 Min!! My arm does ache a lot and I've had today off work. Defo the worst of my 3 jabs. I'm of course pleased I've had it but can understand why 3 or 4 million people only had one jab.
 

LAX54

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As it's a QR based system it should be possible to view the QR code on your phone and take a screen shot of it, then it's likely to be up to the venue you are attending to have internet to check the status.
That is what they did when we were in Holland, we had paper certificates in case, but they just scanned the QR code screenshot on the phone and up came a green tick on their tablet / ipad.
 

43066

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I believe the booster dose i very beneficial so i will be having it as soon as possible.

How will it be beneficial? Specifically why is it beneficial to have it as soon as possible as opposed to in a few months/years (assuming you’re not elderly/high risk)? Is there any scientific basis for saying that, or just based on yet more propaganda?

I only got around to my second-first jab (if that makes sense) a few days ago. Chiefly because, the more hysteria there is in the media, the less I’m inclined to play along with anything covid related. I certainly don’t intend to have any boosters. As I understand it there’s no real benefit to them, unless you’re elderly/high risk.
 

yorkie

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Over 50% of the eligible population for vaccinations has received a booster/3rd dose now.
A fantastic achievement and the figure is continuing to grow at a staggering rate.

This must be making a huge dent in potential transmission rates of Omicron as well as - more importantly - ensuring the vast majority of infections are asymptomatic or very mild.

There is also continuing good news from South Africa, and now from Denmark too; I will be posting in the Omicron thread shortly.

How will it be beneficial? Specifically why is it beneficial to have it as soon as possible as opposed to in a few months/years (assuming you’re not elderly/high risk)? Is there any scientific basis for saying that, or just based on yet more propaganda?
To answer that it would be useful to know when @greyman42 was given their 1st/2nd doses (if they wish to divulge that). Virologists I listen to think that two doses is all we really need for long term effectiveness against severe symptoms but to get the best effectiveness they should be much further apart (potentially around 6 months) and the booster now is, more than anything else, making up for the gap being too short between 1st & 2nd doses (but it is understandable why the gap was shorter, in order to boost immunity in the shorter term)

Another reason for boosters being issued now is to reduce transmission; arguably this is not a sustainable strategy in the long term but for this winter I can understand it.

I only got around to my second-first jab (if that makes sense) a few days ago. Chiefly because, the more hysteria there is in the media, the less I’m inclined to play along with anything covid related. I certainly don’t intend to have any boosters. As I understand it there’s no real benefit to them, unless you’re elderly/high risk.
Out of interest what was your gap between 1st/2nd doses (if you don't mind divulging)? The longer the better for efficacy. I think you probably won't need a booster vaccine dose as there'd be no point doing so for a few months and by then the urgency of the current situation won't be there; a natural exposure to the virus will give you a booster anyway.
 
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Snow1964

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Over 50% of the eligible population for vaccinations has received a booster/3rd dose now.

Excellent news on over 50% of over 11s (12th birthday is threshold)

Anyone 12 to 17 can now book second jab

And deaths (within 28 days of positive test) continue to fall

Hospitalisations seem to be rising marginally (close to flat), although data is 5-6 days behind other data

 

43066

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Virologists I listen to think that two doses is all we really need for long term effectiveness against severe symptoms but to get the best effectiveness they should be much further apart (potentially around 6 months) and the booster now is, more than anything else, making up for the gap being too short between 1st & 2nd doses (but it is understandable why the gap was shorter, in order to boost immunity in the shorter term)

That was my understanding - space the initial doses out more for better immunity (which also has little to do with the presence of antibodies in the blood stream, despite what the media seem to believe). I freely admit I have not read into the subject anything like to the extent you have!

Out of interest what was your gap between 1st/2nd doses? I think you probably won't need a booster vaccine dose as there'd be no point doing so for a few months and by then the urgency of the current situation won't be there; a natural exposure to the virus will give you a booster anyway.

My first dose was early September, and only then because I was visiting a vulnerable relative and basically guilt tripped into it. I completely understand why people reject the vaccine; not because they’re “anti vaxxers”, simply because the pressure to do something they’re ambivalent about makes them want to dig in and go the other way.
 

greyman42

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To answer that it would be useful to know when @greyman42 was given their 1st/2nd doses (if they wish to divulge that). Virologists I listen to think that two doses is all we really need for long term effectiveness against severe symptoms but to get the best effectiveness they should be much further apart (potentially around 6 months) and the booster now is, more than anything else, making up for the gap being too short between 1st & 2nd doses (but it is understandable why the gap was shorter, in order to boost immunity in the shorter term)
First dose - 14 March
Second dose - 23 May
Booster - 2 December.
 

Domh245

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Just to add my own experience of getting a (Moderna) booster on "Record Saturday" - I went to Centre Court Wimbledon for a walk-up but was kept waiting in a queue for over an hour before making it though the door, and getting on for two hours from joining the queue before walking out (without the wait)! Quite annoying to watch the booked line keep marching in whilst my line moved forward one position every 10 minutes or so until inside. No ill effects to speak of other than a sore arm.

Another reason for boosters being issued now is to reduce transmission; arguably this is not a sustainable strategy in the long term but for this winter I can understand it.

Indeed, it's possibly best to think of the booster campaign as an exercise in quickly & safely increasing antibody levels (particularly for the young-ish & healthy) than a 'proper' long-term immunity exercise, though 'correcting' the dosing regime to a longer one is a factor as you point out

Excellent news on over 50% of over 11s (12th birthday is threshold)

Boosters are 18+ for the general population, or 16+ if you have (/live with someone with) a health condition that puts you(/them) at risk from Covid (at least in England). 12-15 year olds have been allowed to get a second dose since around the same time the booster program kicked off, whilst (all other) 16-18 year olds remain on 2 and done.
 

yorkie

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Excellent news on over 50% of over 11s (12th birthday is threshold)
Someone remind me in January to ask some Year 7s if any of them got vaccinated as a birthday present ;)

In all seriousness, I'd encourage them to get vaccinated soon afterwards, but I hope no parents would be obsessive and mean enough to take them on their birthday!

The vaccination roll out in schools is the only thing I'd rate as not good at the moment; the process is not straightforward, the form sometimes crashes, there have been issues getting parental permission, schools and parents are not always informed of the date of vaccinations until very short notice and several visits have been cancelled.

That said I understand the priority has to be over 18s at the moment but I hope schools get properly sorted out soon. I also would like to see a good length gap between 1st & 2nd doses which should avoid any potential need for boosters next year.
My first dose was early September, and only then because I was visiting a vulnerable relative and basically guilt tripped into it.
So a gap of around 3 1/2 months, which is a good length to have and possibly not far off the optimal length; leaving it any longer would be unwise due to the current situation, but yes based on what I've read and given your age & fitness ensure you are not in any risk group I'd say there should be no need for a booster dose.
I completely understand why people reject the vaccine; not because they’re “anti vaxxers”, simply because the pressure to do something they’re ambivalent about makes them want to dig in and go the other way.
Yes the messaging has been appalling.
First dose - 14 March
Second dose - 23 May
Booster - 2 December.
In your case I think it was very wise to get the booster; your gap was little more than 2 months which is a bit less than what is now believed to be optimal; it was also quite some time ago now since you had a dose and I suspect your age profile means you are going to be at greater risk than @43066 so my opinion is you made a good choice. This is especially so if you had the AZ vaccine originally; not because AZ isn't as good (I reject claims on that basis, at least until more data becomes available) but because of the increase in efficacy by combining vaccine types (viral vector + mRNA).

I'd say both of you should have good protection at this point (but I'd like to remind @43066 that it will be 1 week before the vaccine starts to have a detectable effect, and 3 weeks in total before the full benefit is realised).

Of course this is all personal opinion and others may disagree and are of course entitled to do; even experts in virology and immunology can't unanimously agree on all these points.

Just to add my own experience of getting a (Moderna) booster on "Record Saturday" - I went to Centre Court Wimbledon for a walk-up but was kept waiting in a queue for over an hour before making it though the door, and getting on for two hours from joining the queue before walking out (without the wait)! Quite annoying to watch the booked line keep marching in whilst my line moved forward one position every 10 minutes or so until inside. No ill effects to speak of other than a sore arm.
Mine was Friday. I booked mine as late as possible and was asked how long I'd queued. I said about 10mins. I was told the queueing time was about an hour around lunchtime.

I felt pretty unwell after the first dose; 2nd dose was definitely much better but still noticeable; 3rd dose was far better and barely anything other than, as you say, a sore arm. My arm did feel even more sore after the 3rd than previous doses. I don't know if it was related to the fact I previously had AZ (viral vector) but my 3rd was Moderna (mRNA).

Indeed, it's possibly best to think of the booster campaign as an exercise in quickly & safely increasing antibody levels (particularly for the young-ish & healthy) than a 'proper' long-term immunity exercise, though 'correcting' the dosing regime to a longer one is a factor as you point out
It's potentially both these things, depending on the individual concerned and the gap between the various doses.

Boosters are 18+ for the general population, or 16+ if you have (/live with someone with) a health condition that puts you(/them) at risk from Covid (at least in England). 12-15 year olds have been allowed to get a second dose since around the same time the booster program kicked off, whilst (all other) 16-18 year olds remain on 2 and done.
True; the figures on the dashboard all relate to over 12s, so if you were to limit it to eligible people then the percentage would of course go up even further beyond the already impressive figure of 50%.
 
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43066

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I'd say both of you should have good protection at this point (but I'd like to remind @43066 that it will be 1 week before the vaccine starts to have a detectable effect, and 3 weeks in total before the full benefit is realised).

I’m completely indifferent as to whether I catch this virus or not and would have been perfectly happy not to be vaccinated and just go about my life as normal throughout the pandemic. I accept that having the vaccine reduces a small risk still further and (slightly) reduces the chance of passing the virus on. Frankly there are far bigger things to worry about than this virus for many of us - I wish I hadn’t smoked for ten years, for example!

But what the hell, I enjoyed it at the time. Life is for living and when your numbers up your numbers up. It’s a shame a large section of the population and the media seem to have forgotten that.
 

Domh245

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I booked mine as late as possible and was asked how long I'd queued. I said about 10mins. I was told the queueing time was about an hour around lunchtime.

I felt pretty unwell after the first dose; 2nd dose was definitely much better but still noticeable; 3rd dose was far better and barely anything other than, as you say, a sore arm. My arm did feel even more sore after the 3rd than previous doses. I don't know if it was related to the fact I previously had AZ (viral vector) but my 3rd was Moderna (mRNA).

Time of day was probably a big factor as well - the booked queue varied in length quite considerably throughout and by the time I was leaving both lines were relatively short again.

On arm-soreness, it may just be to do with the actual injection and the force/location/etc of the needle than the vaccine itself? My second dose was easily the worst for sore-arm of the three, and was also the worst 'scratch' for want of a better term, jabs 1 & 3 I barely realised I'd been injected!

True; the figures on the dashboard all relate to over 12s, so if you were to limit it to eligible people then the percentage would of course go up even further beyond the already impressive figure of 50%.

So they do! That's surprisingly disappointing! By my estimate it comes it at around 53% of the eligible population having taken up a booster
 

High Dyke

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Had my booster today, booked through the NHS link I was emailed. My local centre still has the 15-minute wait afterwards in place.

Ironically, whilst I was waiting to leave I received a call from my GP surgery reminding me that I hadn't booked my appointment for the booster. o_O
 

Snow1964

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So they do! That's surprisingly disappointing! By my estimate it comes it at around 53% of the eligible population having taken up a booster

Think they are using about 57,520,000 as population 12 and up eligible for jabs.

The whole UK population is about 9.7m higher, most recent figure I can find is 67,220,000

The International comparison between countries uses percentage of whole country


There are very large regional variations for third jabs / boosters, I think some areas are over 70%, but Londoners are lagging behind with some Boroughs nearer only 30% done. Some parts of London have covid rates of 1500+ (per 100,000), some other areas are still below 300.

Clearly applying same restrictions rules to whole of England is a potential problem when some areas are fifth of other areas.
 

Whistler40145

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It's been reported on the BBC this morning that 16% of Footballers are unvaccinated, to me this is an insult, they act as if COVID19 doesn't exist, jumping all over each other and spitting on the pitch.

Should they be forced to have vaccinations or face instant dismissal?
 

Yew

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It's been reported on the BBC this morning that 16% of Footballers are unvaccinated, to me this is an insult, they act as if COVID19 doesn't exist, jumping all over each other and spitting on the pitch.

Should they be forced to have vaccinations or face instant dismissal?
I wasn't aware that "jumping" was so objectionable?
 

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