What is the Covid-19 Exit Strategy of 'Zero Covid' countries such as Hong Kong?

[Eyersey468]

It won't be done in a way that admits wrongdoing; they will say something like the virus has changed or the risk has changed. But, whatever their excuses may be, and however they brand a change in policy, it will happen, eventually!

I agree they will never admit they got it badly wrong

 

[Razorblades]

I agree they will never admit they got it badly wrong

Nor will our lot; watch the 'Public' Enquiry deliver a self-justifying whitewash, leaving the door ajar for a re-run of selected draconian measures when the W.H.O decides there's another global threat.

 

[Richard Scott]

Nor will our lot; watch the 'Public' Enquiry deliver a self-justifying whitewash, leaving the door ajar for a re-run of selected draconian measures when the W.H.O decides there's another global threat.

Not convinced people would be so compliant if there is a next time. Some would be but lots are questioning what we did and why especially as there are many chickens coming home to roost now.

 

[Eyersey468]

Nor will our lot; watch the 'Public' Enquiry deliver a self-justifying whitewash, leaving the door ajar for a re-run of selected draconian measures when the W.H.O decides there's another global threat.

That's my concern too

 

[Bikeman78]

Not convinced people would be so compliant if there is a next time. Some would be but lots are questioning what we did and why especially as there are many chickens coming home to roost now.

Depends how long it is unless the next health scare. People have short memories. Meanwhile, China will still be trying to beat Covid.

 

[Razorblades]

Depends how long it is unless the next health scare. People have short memories. Meanwhile, China will still be trying to beat Covid.

And I think that people could tacitly accept the 'subtler' (or should that be more insidious) measures that were trialled/ attempted last time.

Sure, face-nappies and lockdowns could fade into history, but what about vaccine passports. With the vast majority of the populace having had between 1 and 5 injections at the time of writing, there's a level of expectation already set in the minds of the WHO and our Western governments that people will roll up their sleeves regardless of 'The Science.' I can see this as being a key component in the planning of/ for future health crises.

 

[yorksrob]

And I think that people could tacitly accept the 'subtler' (or should that be more insidious) measures that were trialled/ attempted last time.

Sure, face-nappies and lockdowns could fade into history, but what about vaccine passports. With the vast majority of the populace having had between 1 and 5 injections at the time of writing, there's a level of expectation already set in the minds of the WHO and our Western governments that people will roll up their sleeves regardless of 'The Science.' I can see this as being a key component in the planning of/ for future health crises.

I'm happy to roll up my sleeves.

What I won't accept is the pubs closing.

 

[Bikeman78]

I'm happy to roll up my sleeves.

What I won't accept is the pubs closing.

It should never be either/or though. The current situation in China is dystopian, to put it mildly.

 

[Razorblades]

I'm happy to roll up my sleeves.

What I won't accept is the pubs closing.

Fair enough, but please understand that rolling sleeves up should a) not be mandatory to participate fully in society and b) be an individual's private business, and not anyone else's.

 

[yorksrob]

It should never be either/or though. The current situation in China is dystopian, to put it mildly.

Agree to an extent. We were lucky that enough people agreed to the vaccine, otherwise the pandemic would have been more drawn out.

It's right that the vaccine was by consent - but we were also lucky that so many consented.

Fair enough, but please understand that rolling sleeves up should a) not be mandatory to participate fully in society and b) be an individual's private business, and not anyone else's.

See above.

 

[Eyersey468]

Not convinced people would be so compliant if there is a next time. Some would be but lots are questioning what we did and why especially as there are many chickens coming home to roost now.

Agree to an extent. We were lucky that enough people agreed to the vaccine, otherwise the pandemic would have been more drawn out.

It's right that the vaccine was by consent - but we were also lucky that so many consented.

See above.

While I agree we were lucky so many got the jab, I do feel a lot of people were coerced into getting it though by countries insisting on it for travel, care workers etc being told if they didn't get it they didn't have a job etc etc

 

[yorksrob]

While I agree we were lucky so many got the jab, I do feel a lot of people were coerced into getting it though by countries insisting on it for travel, care workers etc being told if they didn't get it they didn't have a job etc etc

I'm not sure co-erced is the phrase for all.

Either way, we did well as a result of it.

 

[bramling]

More news from China, which is very damaging for the zerp-Covid fanatics:

China Covid: Record number of cases as virus surges nationwide

Residents in thousands of Beijing tower blocks are ordered to remain indoors as workplaces shut down.

www.bbc.co.uk

China Covid: Anger at reports baby died due to delayed treatment

The story of a four-month-old girl's death has been read by millions and is being investigated.

www.bbc.co.uk

Zero-Covid China asks: Is World Cup on another planet?

Scenes of maskless crowds in Qatar anger viewers in China, where many face strict Covid measures.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's only a matter of time before they have to backtrack.

I wouldn’t bet too much on that one!

I'm happy to roll up my sleeves.

What I won't accept is the pubs closing.

The problem is … we can make a stand against stuff like masks or restrictions on our movements by not complying. It’s simply too difficult for the state to clamp down on that, especially if enough people aren’t complying. I can certainly see sufficient numbers defying any future attempt to bring in these sorts of measures.

However you simply can’t use a business which is closed, and this is something which is rather easier for the state to control, and it would take much more widespread non-compliance to reach the critical mass. I recall a florist in my town got grassed up for taking orders via a trestle table outside their door - I’m sure people attempting to order flowers for funerals really appreciated having to mess about after someone reported the florist.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn’t bet too much on that one!



The problem is … we can make a stand against stuff like masks or restrictions on our movements by not complying. It’s simply too difficult for the state to clamp down on that, especially if enough people aren’t complying. I can certainly see sufficient numbers defying any future attempt to bring in these sorts of measures.

However you simply can’t use a business which is closed, and this is something which is rather easier for the state to control, and it would take much more widespread non-compliance to reach the critical mass. I recall a florist in my town got grassed up for taking orders via a trestle table outside their door - I’m sure people attempting to order flowers for funerals really appreciated having to mess about after someone reported the florist.

Exactly, which is why lockdowns need to be discouraged as a policy option.

 

[DustyBin]

Agree to an extent. We were lucky that enough people agreed to the vaccine, otherwise the pandemic would have been more drawn out.

It's right that the vaccine was by consent - but we were also lucky that so many consented.

See above.

Anecdotally I know a large number of people who “consented” on the basis that they had holidays booked, or wanted to be able to go clubbing, or were worried about losing their job, or thought life for the unvaccinated would be made ever more difficult. I’m struggling to see how that isn’t coercion to be honest.

Not everybody fits this category of course, but the number of people I know who got vaccinated first and foremost to protect themselves and/or other people from the virus is actually rather small.

 

[Eyersey468]

Anecdotally I know a large number of people who “consented” on the basis that they had holidays booked, or wanted to be able to go clubbing, or were worried about losing their job, or thought life for the unvaccinated would be made ever more difficult. I’m struggling to see how that isn’t coercion to be honest.

Not everybody fits this category of course, but the number of people I know who got vaccinated first and foremost to protect themselves and/or other people from the virus is actually rather small.

I consider that coercion as well hence my comment, though I agree it wasn't the case for everyone

 

[brad465]

China have made many mistakes on covid, the latest being thinking broadcasting the World Cup while many of their own citizens were locked down. Who knew FIFA might actually be a good revolutionary force for once?

 

[Richard Scott]

Anecdotally I know a large number of people who “consented” on the basis that they had holidays booked, or wanted to be able to go clubbing, or were worried about losing their job, or thought life for the unvaccinated would be made ever more difficult. I’m struggling to see how that isn’t coercion to be honest.

Not everybody fits this category of course, but the number of people I know who got vaccinated first and foremost to protect themselves and/or other people from the virus is actually rather small.

I only had it so I could travel so was coerced. Would probably have had one but certainly wouldn't have bothered with booster or possibly even the second one.

 

[Eyersey468]

I only had it so I could travel so was coerced. Would probably have had one but certainly wouldn't have bothered with booster or possibly even the second one.

To be honest the reason I had the two jabs was for travel, but I am not having any more.

'End the lockdown': Protests in China after 10 killed in apartment block fire during strict COVID restrictions

There are claims fire engines were blocked by pandemic control barriers or by cars stranded after their owners were put in quarantine.

news.sky.com

Huge protests have broken out in China's Xinjiang province after 10 people were killed in an apartment building fire amid strict COVID lockdown restrictions.

A further nine people were injured in the apartment block blaze in Xinjiang's capital Urumqi on Thursday night, local authorities said.

Xinjiang, home to China's persecuted Uyghur minority, has experienced some of the country's longest lockdown restrictions, with reports of people left starving earlier in the year.

Many of the capital's four million residents have been unable to leave their homes for the past 100 days as Beijing pursues its "dynamic zero COVID" policy.

Following the blaze, which spread from the 15th to the 21st floor, people took to the streets and chanted "end the lockdown".

Videos circulating on Chinese social media showed residents shouting at officials in hazmat suits and singing a lyric from the national anthem: "Rise up, those who refuse to be slaves!"

Local officials held an impromptu news conference on Friday to deny claims rescue efforts at the apartment block were hampered by part of the building being under strict lockdown.

​

 

[kristiang85]

Huge protests in Shanghai too apparently, chanting for the communist party to leave and for people to throw away their masks.

Seasoned China commentators saying they've never seen anything like it.

 

[yorksrob]

Huge protests in Shanghai too apparently, chanting for the communist party to leave and for people to throw away their masks.

Seasoned China commentators saying they've never seen anything like it.

Good for them. Hope they're protected by safety in numbers.

 

[Cdd89]

The lockdown protests in China are very similar to the western lockdown protests in 2020, since the epidemiological situation is the same (no vaccination, no direct immunity).

The fact that, despite this, most people are strongly against China’s restrictions suggests a revisionist global view that lockdowns (and the consequent violation of civil liberties) were never ‘worth it’.

 

[yorkie]

Even the BBC now have this on their front page:

China Covid: Protests continue in major cities across the country

Demonstrators gathered in the capital Beijing and the financial hub Shanghai, as well as Wuhan.

www.bbc.co.uk

Protests in China against government's strict Covid measures have intensified, with some people publicly venting their anger at the Communist Party leaders.
Thousands of protesters have turned out in Shanghai, where the BBC has seen people bundled into police cars.
Students have also demonstrated at universities in Beijing and Nanjing.
The latest unrest follows a protest in the remote north-west city of Urumqi,

People are also increasingly turning against Winnie the Pooh and his Communist regime:

During Saturday night's protest in Shanghai - China's biggest city and a global financial hub in the east of the country - people were heard openly shouting slogans such as "Xi Jinping, step down" and "Communist party, step down".

The Communists have two options: 1) back down or 2) slowly but surely relax the rules in a way that they attempt to 'save face' by saying that the virus and/or our immunity to it has changed and that measures can be relaxed.

They will never admit they are wrong, but if they don't start to reduce restrictions pretty damn quick, any option to save face may disappear.

I am glad China tried to impose zero Covid in a way; China's failure to achieve their aims has vindicated those of us who could see from the early stages that Sars-CoV-2 was going to become endemic

I won't forget the claims that if we had just locked down a bit earlier, harder or longer, the virus would have been eliminated. However, providing they admit they were wrong, I am happy to forgive!

Media outlets such as (and especially!) the BBC took a long time to admit this, but there are few people (outside the Communist party of China and their cronies) who can't accept this inevitability.

China Covid: Shocking protests are huge challenge for China's leaders

China's rulers appear to have drastically underestimated growing discontent at Xi Jinping's zero-Covid policy.

www.bbc.co.uk

The government appears to have drastically underestimated growing discontent towards the zero-Covid approach - a policy inextricably linked to Mr Xi, who recently pledged there would be no swerving from the policy.
What's more, there is no easy way out of the corner the Party appears to have painted itself into.
It has had three years to prepare for an eventual reopening, but instead of building more hospital ICU units and emphasising the need for vaccinations, it has poured enormous resources into mass testing, lockdown and isolation facilities designed to win a war against a virus which is never going away

 

[GS250]

Good for them. Hope they're protected by safety in numbers.

Those Chinese protestors are currently getting a pat on the back from the same commentators who slated the (post vaccine) restriction protests in the West.

 

[Dent]

The lockdown protests in China are very similar to the western lockdown protests in 2020, since the epidemiological situation is the same (no vaccination, no direct immunity)
.

How are they still in a situation with no vaccination and no direct immunity? Vaccines are available and have been for nearly two years, and natural herd immunity has been developing for nearer three years.

 

[yorkie]

How are they still in a situation with no vaccination and no direct immunity? Vaccines are available and have been for nearly two years, and natural herd immunity has been developing for nearer three years.

They have access to vaccines but there is very little immunity through natural infection in China, as the Communist regime has pursued and enforced a zero Covid policy of lockdowns and restrictions.

I remember 31 months ago saying I didn't think it likely that the virus could be eliminated:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...osure-to-the-virus.203531/page-3#post-4545567

Let's not forget people wanted zero Covid policies in the UK; those people were proven well and truly wrong. I can totally forgive those who admit they were wrong and apologise for it, but those who called for restrictions must accept responsibility for their mistakes, which were imposed on all of us.

Those who supported zero Covid are being well and truly proven wrong; those of us who spoke out are vindicated.

 

[Dent]

They have access to vaccines but there is very little immunity through natural infection in China, as the Communist regime has pursued and enforced a zero Covid policy of lockdowns and restrictions.

So they do have vaccination, so the claim I was replying to that the epidemiological situation is the same as in 2020 (no vaccination, no direct immunity) is not true.

 

[Cowley]

Huge protests in Shanghai too apparently, chanting for the communist party to leave and for people to throw away their masks.

Seasoned China commentators saying they've never seen anything like it.

I try not to get too involved with the Covid stuff these days (hello everyone! ), but these people protesting are incredibly brave considering the repercussions that might fall upon them.
I hope that some good comes out of this.

 

[DustyBin]

So they do have vaccination, so the claim I was replying to that the epidemiological situation is the same as in 2020 (no vaccination, no direct immunity) is not true.

In regard to vaccination, I believe they have two issues. Firstly very poor efficacy, and secondly low take up, particularly in the oldest age group rather bizarrely.

 

[brad465]

I try not to get too involved with the Covid stuff these days (hello everyone! ), but these people protesting are incredibly brave considering the repercussions that might fall upon them.
I hope that some good comes out of this.

Would it be great if the regimes of Iran, China and Russia all collapse within a year?

The protests are now serious enough for the BBC to have a live feed fronting the landing page about them:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-63776816