What is the Covid-19 Exit Strategy of 'Zero Covid' countries such as Hong Kong?

[Gostav]

Things aren't going well for Winnie the Pooh:

China Covid: Rare protest against President Xi before party congress

The protest against President Xi came amid strict Covid measures that have also sparked anger online.

www.bbc.co.uk

They have no exit strategy, but if they continue down this path, it won't go well for them.

Ah, l also saw this news from TBS.

Doesn't seem to have much influence in China because this man took a huge of courage to hang banners showed "go on strike at school and work" which seems to be the exact opposite of what the public wants. In fact, as far as I know in China now people are protesting the lockdown just to be able to go to school and work normally and this guy acted as if he hadn't experienced three years of abnormal lockdown life in China at all.

 

[DustyBin]

This kind of thing should come as no surprise given that China is far from a free country. It is an evil, dystopian dictatorship which operates a market for the organs of executed criminals. It is no better than Stalinist (let alone Putinist) Russia, North Korea or Nazi Germany.

The only reason they are given a free pass by the West is because they have a large and growing economy, make iPhone chips etc. Much like Saudi Arabia with oil.

We should all be ashamed of enabling this regime, whether via our purchasing habits or the governments we elect.

I agree, and I try to avoid buying Chinese made products as far as possible. That doesn't mean I don't buy anything made in China as there are practicalities involved, but I do make the effort. This often comes at a cost financially, and I realise that not everyone can afford to buy (for example) European made products, so I don't wish to sound judgemental at all. What I would say however, having raised this issue in a couple of threads on this forum, is you only need to look at the situation with Russia to see how geopolitics can quickly become more than just an abstract concept....

 

[Richard Scott]

We should all be ashamed of enabling this regime, whether via our purchasing habits, or the governments we elect.

I go through products and will happily pay more for something that isn't made in China. However some things are impossible, would you believe no matter how much I was prepared to pay I couldn't buy a light bulb that wasn't made in China. What a disgrace.

 

[yorkie]

Winnie the Pooh is in the news again:

China congress: Xi Jinping doubles down on zero-Covid as meeting opens

The Communist Party meeting is expected to see Mr Xi get a precedent-breaking third term as leader.

www.bbc.co.uk

China's President Xi Jinping signalled there would be no immediate loosening of his controversial zero-Covid strategy as a historic Communist Party congress opened in Beijing.

Zero-Covid was a "people's war to stop the spread of the virus", he said.

There is increasing public fatigue over lockdowns and travel restrictions.
Beijing has come under strict security measures ahead of the congress, sparking frustration in the city with a rare and dramatic public protest on Thursday criticising Mr Xi and zero Covid.

I won't comment on the off topic stuff mentioned in the article, but in a way I am glad Xi is pursuing Zero Covid, because it will, in the longer term, harm him and damage his reputation and it will all fall apart eventually and demonstrate how Zero Covid was never a viable option.

I just feel for the people affected by this; they have my sympathy.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Winnie the Pooh is in the news again:

China congress: Xi Jinping doubles down on zero-Covid as meeting opens

The Communist Party meeting is expected to see Mr Xi get a precedent-breaking third term as leader.

www.bbc.co.uk

I won't comment on the off topic stuff mentioned in the article, but in a way I am glad Xi is pursuing Zero Covid, because it will, in the longer term, harm him and damage his reputation and it will all fall apart eventually and demonstrate how Zero Covid was never a viable option.

I just feel for the people affected by this; they have my sympathy.

I find it insane that anywhere in the world is still living in Covid times…

In retrospect as of 2022 it feels that 2020-2021 never happened, and we picked up from 2019, I cannot comprehend the last two years at all.

 

[flymo]

Having lived in Hong Kong during their zero-Covid policy, escaping in early 2022, I do still watch what goes on there and still can't see any way out of this for them unless China allows them to change. The new Chief Executive and his team is no better than calamity Carrie and her minions. It is gratifying however to see some voices calling for the abolition of the incessant and relentless testing which serves no purpose other than to annoy the populace. Glad the compulsory quarantine has been removed as well as the arbitrary ban on flights for no reason. The cap on people gathering outside will soon be relaxed to 12 from 4 but you must remain masked at all times yet you can still gather many times more people indoors maskless so to me this is simply population control in case there is another uprising.
It's all rather sad to see such a once fantastic city reduced to a laughing stock. I'd love to go back for a visit but unless the relentless testing and risk of incarceration are removed I can't see any point in going. There are other more deserving places to visit in Asia and elsewhere.
As for the rest of China...well...I shake my head in disbelief.

 

[yorksrob]

I can't see anything improving in China until Xi Xing Ping is gone.

Unfortunately, he's removed the constitutional safeguards that would have prevented him ruling for life.

 

[Russel]

One positive to Winnie's zero Covid policy and frequent lockdowns is it's helping keep a lid on oil prices.

 

[jamesr]

Having lived in Hong Kong during their zero-Covid policy, escaping in early 2022, I do still watch what goes on there and still can't see any way out of this for them unless China allows them to change. The new Chief Executive and his team is no better than calamity Carrie and her minions. It is gratifying however to see some voices calling for the abolition of the incessant and relentless testing which serves no purpose other than to annoy the populace. Glad the compulsory quarantine has been removed as well as the arbitrary ban on flights for no reason. The cap on people gathering outside will soon be relaxed to 12 from 4 but you must remain masked at all times yet you can still gather many times more people indoors maskless so to me this is simply population control in case there is another uprising.
It's all rather sad to see such a once fantastic city reduced to a laughing stock. I'd love to go back for a visit but unless the relentless testing and risk of incarceration are removed I can't see any point in going. There are other more deserving places to visit in Asia and elsewhere.
As for the rest of China...well...I shake my head in disbelief.

As someone who has also been here since 2020 and remains here in HK now, I agree with you entirely.

Whilst I think there’s still about a third of the population who are still petrified of the virus (as a result of the government’s endless fear tactics combined with a cultural risk aversion), I think the remaining two thirds now have woken up to the fact that the destruction to the economy is achieving nothing and is disproportionate and are just starting to try and live their lives normally (masks down when out of view of police, private parties rather than following restaurant restrictions).

Having just been travelling, I’m currently running through the 11 tests in 8 days travellers face on their return. It feels like a face-saving parade more than anything. The community centre tests are being done so lightly (waving a stick in the general direction of my nostrils) that it feels like it wouldn’t identify the virus even if I had it.

I suspect Hong Kong has done itself too much reputational damage to recover in its race against Singapore at this point. And this doesn’t really bother the authorities here, because success for them = making a lot of noise about Covid.

Hong Kong is slowly limping back into action at the sports day at this point, but the guys who make the rules don’t really want them in the races any more…

 

[Freightmaster]

Winnie the Pooh is in the news again:

China congress: Xi Jinping doubles down on zero-Covid as meeting opens

The Communist Party meeting is expected to see Mr Xi get a precedent-breaking third term as leader.

www.bbc.co.uk

I won't comment on the off topic stuff mentioned in the article, but in a way I am glad Xi is pursuing Zero Covid, because it will, in the longer term, harm him and damage his reputation and it will all fall apart eventually and demonstrate how Zero Covid was never a viable option.

I just feel for the people affected by this; they have my sympathy.

I see his zero-Covid policy is going well...

China Covid: Millions back in lockdown as Beijing doubles down on zero-Covid

Dozens of cities across the country have been affected by varying degrees of restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk

Across the country, around 200 lockdowns have been implemented in recent days - the majority of this affecting communities that have been marked as high or medium risk. Residents in different areas are subject to different rules, depending on whether they are in a low, medium or high-risk zone.

MARK

 

[Bikeman78]

I see his zero-Covid policy is going well...

China Covid: Millions back in lockdown as Beijing doubles down on zero-Covid

Dozens of cities across the country have been affected by varying degrees of restrictions.

www.bbc.co.uk

MARK

Mind boggling. Do they seriously think they can outwit a virus? For how many years do they propose to keep this up? It's here forever. Whether they accept that today, tomorrow, or 10 years from now, the fact remains the same.

 

[greyman42]

Mind boggling. Do they seriously think they can outwit a virus? For how many years do they propose to keep this up? It's here forever. Whether they accept that today, tomorrow, or 10 years from now, the fact remains the same.

They will never admit they got it wrong.

 

[yorksrob]

To admit that they'd got it wrong would endanger the continuation of the communist government, and that's the only thing that matters to the communist government.

 

[Mainline421]

Appears China has finally started rolling back the "Zero Covid" rhetoric.

China abandons ‘one size fits all’ Covid policy

There are echoes of the Great Barrington Declaration in Beijing's latest plans

https://unherd.com/thepost/china-abandons-one-size-fits-all-covid-policy/

That article may be reading a little too much into some immediate changes, but this does finally look likely to be the start of removing restrictions.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Zerocovidzoe won't be happy: she's been praising China's Zero Covid approach (and social credit system) since we tossed restrictions in the bin where they belonged.

 

[ainsworth74]

Zerocovidzoe won't be happy: she's been praising China's Zero Covid approach (and social credit system) since we tossed restrictions in the bin where they belonged.

Who? I'm afraid I'm not up the what the latest silly names for people are.

 

[adc82140]

Who? I'm afraid I'm not up the what the latest silly names for people are.

It was some sort of parody account on Twitter. I think there was one called Lenny Lockdown or something as well that had similar content. Basically a mick take of the shouty types with little knowledge that wanted restrictions to continue forever so they could sit in their pants watching Netflix all day on full pay.

 

[yorkie]

In the case of 'Zero Covid Zoe' it was obviously a parody account.

However some far left authoritarians who advocate restrictions, lockdowns etc are so utterly bonkers it's almost impossible to determine which views are genuine and which are parody. Sometimes the only way to know an account is parody is due to something about the account, such as the name of the account, or the pattern of tweets, that gives it away. Looking at an individual tweet often isn't enough to have any idea if it's a real opinion or not.

For example this individual might be a parody account but it I think it actually could be real:

https://twitter.com/chantz_y/status/1562087106746363904

4/ sinophobia. The writer claims China's approach is unrealistic yet can't offer an exit strategy to their let it rip approach. The writer isn't from China but speaks with authority on their health policies.

Looking at their other tweets, and given there is nothing obviously fake about their account, I think they genuinely believe the nonsense they are saying.

Covidians are so utterly bonkers it becomes almost impossible for someone parodying a Covidian to exaggerate; almost any form of exaggerated post could actually be real, as there seems to be no limits to how bonkers some Covidians are!

News just in today (15/11):

China zero Covid: Violent protests in Guangzhou put curbs under strain

Anger boils over in the industrial city of Guangzhou, exposing cracks in Xi Jinping's signature policy.

www.bbc.co.uk

Crowds of residents in southern China's industrial metropolis Guangzhou have escaped a compulsory lockdown and clashed with police, as anger at strict coronavirus curbs boiled over.
Dramatic footage shows some overturning a police vehicle and tearing down Covid control barriers. Riot teams have now been deployed in the area.
It follows Guangzhou's worst Covid outbreak since the pandemic began.
Amid bad economic figures, China's zero Covid policy is under enormous strain.

While China cannot admit they were wrong, I expect they will slowly change their stance and accept it is absolutely inevitable that SARS-CoV-2 will become the 5th endemic human coronavirus

 

[scarby]

Very strange that a country that was willing to let tens of millions die during the implementation of the Great Leap Forward should be so obsessed with trying to prevent a new flu, especially now that there is a vaccine for it. If they vaccinate as rigorously as they test when there is an outbreak they could vaccinate the people of large city in just a few days.

 

[nw1]

I don't think that the Chinese leadership genuinely believes Covid is that dangerous, now, in late 2022.

It's all about a) saving face and b) (and mostly this) exercising autocratic and authoritarian control over their population.

 

[Cdd89]

It's all about a) saving face and b) (and mostly this) exercising autocratic and authoritarian control over their population.

And in a way that is challenging for Western leaders to criticise, given that the West did things that weren’t so very different.

 

[nw1]

In the case of 'Zero Covid Zoe' it was obviously a parody account.

However some far left authoritarians who advocate restrictions, lockdowns etc are so utterly bonkers it's almost impossible to determine which views are genuine and which are parody. Sometimes the only way to know an account is parody is due to something about the account, such as the name of the account, or the pattern of tweets, that gives it away. Looking at an individual tweet often isn't enough to have any idea if it's a real opinion or not.

I'm not sure it's the far left. I'd guess a lot of the people with "let's keep restrictions going" attitudes in late 2022 are actually wealthy people with economically right-of-centre attitudes. Why? Because they will have escaped any financial harm caused by over-prolonged lockdowns. They will be able to easily afford private dental care as a result of NHS dentists disappearing (Covid and restrictions on dental practices apparently being one cause, according to the receptionist, in my case). And they can make themselves look good by criticising everyone else, and cover up their own "I'm all right Jack" economically right-wing attitudes.

A lot of these tweets seem to label people against restrictions in late 2022 "uncaring" and "selfish". That just infuriates me.

It's uncaring to not give a damn about people who have other, more serious and/or common health conditions which are more difficult to treat thanks to the after-effects of the Covid crisis. I'm just thankful that I can afford private dental care for example (it will be an annoyance rather than a hardship), I hate to think how the unemployed or elderly would cope with no NHS care available.

Ask someone on below-average, average, or even slightly above-average income, and I doubt they'd be singing the praises of restrictions that have caused hardship to millions.

I just wish the same kind of effort and money was being spent on ensuring everyone had access to an NHS dentist, and easy access to a doctor's appointment.

 

[Cdd89]

I'm not sure it's the far left. I'd guess a lot of the people with "let's keep restrictions going" attitudes in late 2022 are actually wealthy neoliberals. Why? Because they will have escaped any financial harm caused by over-prolonged lockdowns

I think this is more the right-wing support for lockdowns (which to be clear, there was plenty of!). Plenty of countries imposed lockdowns and just left people to economically suffer in pursuit of supposed health benefits.

The left support for lockdowns is thus as above, just with a side-portion of “and support people/businesses/etc”, as though that absolves them of the consequences. And the cop-out that we can do so infinitely, in response to any group harmed by lockdowns, without worrying about the cost or considering opportunity cost - absolutely is a far-left position.

 

[bramling]

I'm not sure it's the far left. I'd guess a lot of the people with "let's keep restrictions going" attitudes in late 2022 are actually wealthy people with economically right-of-centre attitudes. Why? Because they will have escaped any financial harm caused by over-prolonged lockdowns. They will be able to easily afford private dental care as a result of NHS dentists disappearing (Covid and restrictions on dental practices apparently being one cause, according to the receptionist, in my case). And they can make themselves look good by criticising everyone else, and cover up their own "I'm all right Jack" economically right-wing attitudes.

I suspect there’s more than an element of truth to this, which makes it all the more of a paradox that elements of the political left have been so heavily in favour of lockdown policies, institutions like Labour, the SNP, trade unions.

Ask someone on below-average, average, or even slightly above-average income, and I doubt they'd be singing the praises of restrictions that have caused hardship to millions.

The way we did restrictions here was *extremely* divisive and unbalanced. I wonder how many Range Rovers and home extensions were funded by sham business loans, for example. Likewise if you were on furlough for many months and then promptly resigned or retired, or even just appreciated the time off. Meanwhile for someone trying to run a small business the whole thing was crucifying.

It’s all a big scandal really. I do think there’s some merit in the idea that, having dipped their toes into China-style policies (which they thought they couldn’t get away with, but then realised they could), the government seems to quite like their new-found power and control over the population.

I just wish the same kind of effort and money was being spent on ensuring everyone had access to an NHS dentist, and easy access to a doctor's appointment.

Agreed. A scandal.

 

[kristiang85]

and b) (and mostly this) exercising autocratic and authoritarian control over their population.

Well, quite. They have used COVID to successfully bring in a system where all of the population's movements are controlled by a QR code on their phone. If a shopping centre gets a positive test, suddenly everybody who checked in there is unable to go anywhere as their pass goes red.

Now extrapolate that onto people who attended an opposition rally or protest against Uighur imprisonment, or tie it in with the social credit system. You can see where it is going...

 

[yorkie]

More news from China, which is very damaging for the zerp-Covid fanatics:

China Covid: Record number of cases as virus surges nationwide

Residents in thousands of Beijing tower blocks are ordered to remain indoors as workplaces shut down.

www.bbc.co.uk

China has recorded its highest number of daily Covid cases since the pandemic began, despite stringent measures designed to eliminate the virus.

There are outbreaks with several major cities including the capital Beijing and southern trade hub Guangzhou...

China Covid: Anger at reports baby died due to delayed treatment

The story of a four-month-old girl's death has been read by millions and is being investigated.

www.bbc.co.uk

Reports that a baby died in China because her medical care had been delayed by Covid restrictions have prompted a huge outcry online...

Zero-Covid China asks: Is World Cup on another planet?

Scenes of maskless crowds in Qatar anger viewers in China, where many face strict Covid measures.

www.bbc.co.uk

..scenes of maskless celebrations and raucous gatherings in Qatar have irritated viewers, who have been discouraged from gathering to watch the games.
Many have used the World Cup to complain online about China's existing strategies. The country maintains a zero-Covid policy, where entire communities are locked down over single cases of the virus, in order to prevent it from spreading...

It's only a matter of time before they have to backtrack.

 

[Eyersey468]

More news from China, which is very damaging for the zerp-Covid fanatics:

China Covid: Record number of cases as virus surges nationwide

Residents in thousands of Beijing tower blocks are ordered to remain indoors as workplaces shut down.

www.bbc.co.uk

China Covid: Anger at reports baby died due to delayed treatment

The story of a four-month-old girl's death has been read by millions and is being investigated.

www.bbc.co.uk

Zero-Covid China asks: Is World Cup on another planet?

Scenes of maskless crowds in Qatar anger viewers in China, where many face strict Covid measures.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's only a matter of time before they have to backtrack.

Proves just how futile their efforts are

 

[DustyBin]

More news from China, which is very damaging for the zerp-Covid fanatics:

China Covid: Record number of cases as virus surges nationwide

Residents in thousands of Beijing tower blocks are ordered to remain indoors as workplaces shut down.

www.bbc.co.uk

China Covid: Anger at reports baby died due to delayed treatment

The story of a four-month-old girl's death has been read by millions and is being investigated.

www.bbc.co.uk

Zero-Covid China asks: Is World Cup on another planet?

Scenes of maskless crowds in Qatar anger viewers in China, where many face strict Covid measures.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's only a matter of time before they have to backtrack.

I was going to post the same link.

In regard to backtracking, I’m not sure they will. They really should obviously, but the whole thing is looking more and more about general totalitarianism and less and less about eliminating an endemic virus.

 

[ainsworth74]

We've got back onto topic now but this thread is about the Covid strategies in zero Covid countries like China so getting too deep into the politics of Covid in the UK or on Twitter has been done to death in previous threads and is going to be leading us out into the off-topic weeds. Please keep that in mind

 

[yorkie]

I was going to post the same link.

In regard to backtracking, I’m not sure they will. They really should obviously, but the whole thing is looking more and more about general totalitarianism and less and less about eliminating an endemic virus.

It won't be done in a way that admits wrongdoing; they will say something like the virus has changed or the risk has changed. But, whatever their excuses may be, and however they brand a change in policy, it will happen, eventually!