Fate of HST

[squizzler]

What great plan? I don't understand how an HST is 'new traction' compared to a 67 and Mk3 LHCS!

And in any case, the UK post-Brexit will be skint so a new Royal Train will not even be on any list of priorities. Get real! :roll:

Don't get me wrong I am not a flag waver for brexit. The reference to a "great plan" was somewhat tongue in cheek and was merely applying the same logic as those who were suggesting we should have a new Royal yacht.

 

[Failed Unit]

Don't try and accuse me of something you don't actually know! I did actually look this stuff up on their website ok the light clusters is my interpretation of they are aiming for but what is clear they are unlikely to want a GC version, and frankly there's no need to get so ridiculously pedantic about it.

Be interested to see if anyone does want a buffered power car. They are not the real thing of course. (In terms of looks) but part of the trains history. I remember them with the 91s well.

 

[CosherB]

Don't get me wrong I am not a flag waver for brexit. The reference to a "great plan" was somewhat tongue in cheek and was merely applying the same logic as those who were suggesting we should have a new Royal yacht.

Well we don't have a Royal Yacht at the moment (not that I believe that we need one) whereas we have a perfectly acceptable Royal Train, owned by Network Rail and, ironically, under the care of DBC.

 

[route:oxford]

Due to my age, I never travelled on a steam hauled 'BR' service ..... but that doesn't make me less likely to want to travel behind a heritage steam loco does it? Surely it makes me more likely to want to do it!!

Under 22 then? The last BR operated steam hauled service was around 1995.

 

[route:oxford]

I reckon a couple of power cars could be dedicated to Royal duties - the royal train is mostly Mk3 to start with.

Maybe a Scottish Presidential train? Although wee nippy likes a chopper.

In reality, we know that there has never been a time over the last 40 years when there has been a surplus of serviceable units. Even with the orders that are currently in place, there will still only be just enough units to run services.

Have First Group made it clear what they plan to do with the sets that they own outright?

 

[43096]

Have First Group made it clear what they plan to do with the sets that they own outright?

They are part of the retained 2+4 for GWR, though it would seem half the trailers become surplus.

 

[CosherB]

Under 22 then? The last BR operated steam hauled service was around 1995.

22? I wish! lol

 

[47802]

Be interested to see if anyone does want a buffered power car. They are not the real thing of course. (In terms of looks) but part of the trains history. I remember them with the 91s well.

Well I guess if your not a purist as has already been said the easier coupling might come in handy although they look awful, perhaps a pity they didn't retain buffers from the start as per the prototype which look much better.

 

[Failed Unit]

Couple it to a 91 and mk3s. Paint it in Ic livery and we have a hybrid.

Use it for my London - Peterborough- Nottingham- Sheffield open access service.

 

[Harbornite]

but has the royal train been heavily updated since it was introduced in the 1970's? New traction might be part of a more comprehensive update as part of the great plan to impress foreigners and attract inwards investment after brexit...

Somehow I doubt that most (read: any) foreigners (dignitaries or otherwise) will care about the type of locomotive used for the royal train. Why would it be part of any post-brexit investment plan?

 

[43096]

Couple it to a 91 and mk3s. Paint it in Ic livery and we have a hybrid.

Use it for my London - Peterborough- Nottingham- Sheffield open access service.

Shame you can't control the 91 from the power car!

 

[Failed Unit]

Shame you can't control the 91 from the power car!

Really? Wow! Didn't realise the power car was pulling the 91 dead when travelling south back in the 1980s. I always thought it was controlling the 91. Am I an idiot or what. BR conned me!

 

[43096]

Really? Wow! Didn't realise the power car was pulling the 91 dead when travelling south back in the 1980s. I always thought it was controlling the 91. Am I an idiot or what. BR conned me!

Not an idiot - they did indeed control the 91 back then. But the rewiring done on them when they were overhauled for Grand Central and Network Rail saw the standard power car wiring schematic used and the TDM equipment was removed.

 

[47802]

Couple it to a 91 and mk3s. Paint it in Ic livery and we have a hybrid.

Use it for my London - Peterborough- Nottingham- Sheffield open access service.

Although of course a somewhat underpowered hybrid, wasn't that allegedly the original reason Bradford Services were moved to Foster Square as the Single Power Car would struggle to get up the hill out of Interchange

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Also I gather that the first power car in service is be preserved at the NRM.

Indeed it is.

3308 never entered revenue service did it?

 

[MatthewRead]

Under 22 then? The last BR operated steam hauled service was around 1995.

I thought the last BR steam services were in 1968

 

[43096]

3308 never entered revenue service did it?

That is correct.

You would think the NRM would like to swap it for either 3313 or 3314, as they are the UK speed record holders.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I thought the last BR steam services were in 1968

Vale of Rheidol...?

 

[najaB]

Well we don't have a Royal Yacht at the moment (not that I believe that we need one)...

A lot of very lucrative trade deals were instigated over cocktails on the decks of Britannia...

 

[MatthewRead]

Vale of Rheidol...?

No I mean the last British Rail main line steam.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

A lot of very lucrative trade deals were instigated over cocktails on the decks of Britannia...

I'm sure there's some old coal barge lying around we can paint up red white and blue for May and Davis...

 

[Cowley]

No I mean the last British Rail main line steam.

The pre privatisation Jacobite maybe?

 

[Harbornite]

I thought the last BR steam services were in 1968

You forgot the Vale of Rheidol line (BR owned until 1989), and BR still had a steam crane on its books until the 1990s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No I mean the last British Rail main line steam.

Yes, but I think the poster you were replying to was thinking of the Rheidol service?

 

[RichmondCommu]

An HST is an impressive sight when leaving the station. it is an iconic image in the publics mind of BR days, I would argue that in 20 years time the HST (in original livery) will be the main image in the public mind of the diesel era on our railways. In the North of Scotland they will probably still be in service.

A HST is an impressive sight when its leaving a station and looking to reach 125 mph as soon as possible. The departure from Darlington is an example of this. A departure from Highley is not quite the same.

If I asked my work colleagues (who are all university educated with excellent degrees) what a HST is the vast majority would answer either a Eurostar or a Bullet Train and a few might say a TGV. Most of them would have no idea what our HST is and only a few will have traveled on it. Most rail travelers are interested in where they are traveling to and not what they are traveling on.

This summer three of my colleagues took their families for a day out at a preserved railway. They mentioned over lunch that they had taken their children for a ride on a steam train. They had no idea whether the loco was a GWR Pannier tank or a Bullied Pacific, all they knew was it was a steam train and to them that was all that mattered. If they had traveled behind a diesel in their eyes it would just be a diesel regardless of whether it was a HST or a class 45.

Ask any preserved railway and they will tell you that steam sells. In my eyes diesels deserve their place on our preserved railways but your typical none enthusiast family is looking for a steam train, especially when they are paying £50 for a family ticket.

 

[RichmondCommu]

They have a place and heritage lines will probably find a place for them. Steam is beautiful, but the number of people who remember steam days is dwindling. Heritage railways are about people remembering past experiences.

I was born in 1966 and don't remember steam as I was barely two years old in August 1968. However since I rejoined the hobby six or so years a go my only real interest is steam. I enjoy days out with my grown up family (our children are in their 20s). If I suggested a day out to a diesel gala they would find an excuse not to go. Through their own choice they are happy to attend a steam gala. And none of our children are rail enthusiasts.

 

[RichmondCommu]

For some people undoubtedly, for others though they don't hold much attraction at all. A lot of people go to Heritage railways as a family day out, they stir memories, many people will have fond memories of travelling on a HST. I think bringing the past to life is a big part of heritage experiences, this is more powerful in families (therefore more profitable) if people actually remember the experience.

As I said many people have never traveled on a HST and of those that have the vast majority would not know that it was called a HST and would not be able to recognise it if they saw it in a picture. The vast majority of rail travelers (and I speak from experience) are simply not interested. The experience of a rail traveler is largely based on getting a seat, whether the train was on time and how much the ticket was. Ask a family what they want to see and they will almost always reply "a steam train".

 

[reddragon]

On track?

A pair of HST power cars could be converted into Blue Pullmans and haul the Mk2 Pullman rake?

If you can cut and shut a 37 into a 23 you can cut & stretch a 43 into a Blue Pullman!

2 standard RMs (Routemaster buses) were cut & shut into an ERM, 1 window longer!

 

[43096]

As I said many people have never traveled on a HST and of those that have the vast majority would not know that it was called a HST and would not be able to recognise it if they saw it in a picture. The vast majority of rail travelers (and I speak from experience) are simply not interested. The experience of a rail traveler is largely based on getting a seat, whether the train was on time and how much the ticket was. Ask a family what they want to see and they will almost always reply "a steam train".

But if you ask a normal to name a type of "modern" British train (i.e. diesel or electric), they'd be more likely to say "Inter-City 125" than anything else.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But if you ask a normal to name a type of "modern" British train (i.e. diesel or electric), they'd be more likely to say "Inter-City 125" than anything else.

When was the last time anyone from a TOC called a HST a "Inter-City 125"?

If you're aged 35 or below you'll have no idea what an "Inter-City 125" is. And they're the ones bringing young children to preserved railways.