Class 707 to Southeastern Dates

[py_megapixel]

That’s for wheelchair access, not pointless at all.

Shouldn't there be a proper wheelchair space somewhere though?

 

[SE%Traveller]

interesting that the SE Twitter handler said they'd be working the Victoria Dartford Service, all stations west of Lewisham are are 8 car only as are Platforms

 

[swt_passenger]

interesting that the SE Twitter handler said they'd be working the Victoria Dartford Service, all stations west of Lewisham are are 8 car only as are Platforms

It’s not just the Twitter account, it’s also quite specific in the SE website news article linked in post #708.

 

[Mikey C]

It’s not just the Twitter account, it’s also quite specific in the SE website news article linked in post #708.

That release doesn't mention Victoria

 

[swt_passenger]

That release doesn't mention Victoria

Yes sorry I meant Gravesend etc are definitely in scope. Are you thinking existing stock will have to remain on services to Victoria? SWR call 707s at plenty of short platforms, but they tend to be at the outer ends of routes.

 

[CFRAIL]

There was a reply on Twitter that said they would be used from Victoria (as well as others)

 

[Aictos]

interesting that the SE Twitter handler said they'd be working the Victoria Dartford Service, all stations west of Lewisham are are 8 car only as are Platforms

The Siemens City Desiro family of which the Class 707s being to have selective door opening whereas the train will not open any door of the carriage if said carriage is not fully platformed so I can't see why platform restrictions on the London Victoria routes would mean that the Class 707s cannot operate out of London Victoria when SDO can be used.

 

[swt_passenger]

There was a reply on Twitter that said they would be used from Victoria (as well as others)

I expect that’s what was being quoted in post #722 earlier… TOC Twitter feeds are not exactly renowned for their accuracy when covering longer term changes…

 

[SE%Traveller]

Yep it was the twitter feed i was referring to...

I expect that’s what was being quoted in post #722 earlier… TOC Twitter feeds are not exactly renowned for their accuracy when covering longer term changes…yep

 

[Rail.Fan]

I imagine the 707s are going to be used on all the services which the 376s use? Since they are both 10 car trains. Maybe they will be used a lot more on all the loop services allowing the ageing networkers to keep to shorter journeys?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

There's the answer

Assuming by 'networker', SouthEastern mean the class 465's: According to wikipedia, SouthEastern have 147 of the 4-car class 465 Networker trains, (as well as 43 of the 2-car class 466's). They also have 36 5-car class 376s which are not as old and which - as far as I can interpret from the text you quoted - are presumably staying.

I'm not sure what the 30 5-car class 707s can do to replace any of that lot - the numbers of units don't seem to add up, unless it's simply adding some new units to increase capacity?

(Edited to fix class numbers)

 

[Mikey C]

I imagine the 707s are going to be used on all the services which the 376s use? Since they are both 10 car trains. Maybe they will be used a lot more on all the loop services allowing the ageing networkers to keep to shorter journeys?

The Networkers have toilets, so surely would be on the longer services?

 

[DA1]

Highly unlikely they would be on Vic services however they can go there as a 5 car if needed.

 

[Doomotron]

I highly doubt it! Although I personally quite like the variety don't you?

I liked the period when the 375s were being repainted, but to be honest they've never been able to settle with one livery. Most of the Electrostars before being repainted were in Connex/SET livery, and the Networkers use one livery, but it was only applied to a handful of 375s. The Javelins came along with a completely new livery, and the 377s are still in First Capital Connect purple. And then there's the 376s...

Really, they should have stuck with the lilac livery used on the Networkers, because there would have been a bit more brand unity (and it looked stunning on the 375s).

Assuming by 'networker', SouthEastern mean the class 465's: According to wikipedia, SouthEastern have 147 of the 4-car class 165 Networker trains, (as well as 43 of the 2-car class 166's). They also have 36 5-car class 365s which are not as old and which - as far as I can interpret from the text you quoted - are presumably staying.

I'm not sure what the 30 5-car class 707s can do to replace any of that lot - the numbers of units don't seem to add up, unless it's simply adding some new units to increase capacity?

I'm not sure where you're getting 165, 166 and 365 from...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Thinking more about where the trains could be used... There are 30 units. Assuming they'll tend to be doubled up, that's 15 trains. I don't know what proportion of those would have to be undergoing maintenance at any one time, but I'm guessing, no more than 13 trains in service at any one time normally?

SouthEastern claim the 707s will run on the Dartford, Sevenoaks and Hayes lines. Quickly checking the timetable, it looks to me like you need 8 trains to run 4tph to Hayes, 4 trains to run 2tph to Sevenoaks, and 3 trains to run the 2tph to Orpington (if they count as the 'Sevenoaks' route). So if they were all going to be 707s, that's already more trains than are probably available - and I haven't yet even started counting the many more trains on the Dartford routes.

So I'm guessing we can rule out any route being given over entirely to 707s - which presumably means they'll just be mixed in with the existing units on various metro routes.

I'm not sure where you're getting 165, 166 and 365 from...

Oh sorry, that was a typo for 465, 466 and 376. Pretty bad typos lol. I'll fix my post.

 

[brad465]

The Siemens City Desiro family of which the Class 707s being to have selective door opening whereas the train will not open any door of the carriage if said carriage is not fully platformed so I can't see why platform restrictions on the London Victoria routes would mean that the Class 707s cannot operate out of London Victoria when SDO can be used.

I can't recall any concerns for Nunhead, Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill, but if a 10 car 707 ran the Orpington services, calling at Herne Hill in both directions and Brixton in the down direction would foul a prominent junction.

 

[CFRAIL]

This is what SE have tweeted, certainly no Vic there (as expected)

 

[brad465]

This is what SE have tweeted, certainly no Vic there (as expected)

Looks like they've also ruled out (or forgotten) Gravesend, even though 376s occasionally serve there.

 

[DA1]

Looks like they've also ruled out (or forgotten) Gravesend, even though 376s occasionally serve there.

Wonder if the semi fast Gravesend services will be brought back with the Dartford stopper services being 707s.

 

[Mikey C]

Looks like they've also ruled out (or forgotten) Gravesend, even though 376s occasionally serve there.

Well it makes sense that the longest services are operated with trains with toilets. I assume any 376 operation wasn't timetabled

 

[DA1]

Well it makes sense that the longest services are operated with trains with toilets. I assume any 376 operation wasn't timetabled

376 operations are most definitely timetabled for Gravesend.

 

[43102EMR]

376 operations are most definitely timetabled for Gravesend.

Indeed they are - they’re interchangeable with the Networkers other than the Bromley shuttle and Mainline services.

 

[brad465]

Indeed they are - they’re interchangeable with the Networkers other than the Bromley shuttle and Mainline services.

They're not interchangeable on Victoria services I believe, or at least very limited in what they can do there.

 

[Bayum]

https://twitter.com/paulbyrail/status/1412002383572475906?s=21

New livery unveiled now too - looks really good IMO…

Very smart. Are the doors allowed to have little contrast like that?

 

[BluePenguin]

They're not interchangeable on Victoria services I believe, or at least very limited in what they can do there.

I don’t understand what is meant by interchangeable and why are they not allowed to go to Victoria?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I don’t understand what is meant by interchangeable and why are they not allowed to go to Victoria?

At a guess... because of platforms on that route only being long enough for 8 carriages? That 376's are 5 car-units and therefore need platforms long enough for 10 carriages (since you don't want to be running 5-car trains most of the time in that part of London)

 

[urpert]

At a guess... because of platforms on that route only being long enough for 8 carriages? That 376's are 5 car-units and therefore need platforms long enough for 10 carriages (since you don't want to be running 5-car trains most of the time in that part of London)

Correct. In 30 years of using that line I’ve had a 376 precisely once.

 

[Class 466]

Looks like they've also ruled out (or forgotten) Gravesend, even though 376s occasionally serve there.

Definitely forgotten as the 2Nxx CHX - GRV are formed off of 2Axx DFD - CHX and vice versa.

 

[Applepie356]

Saw a 707 passing Lewisham station at 10:17 this morning. Route testing perhaps?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Not sure about that new livery...