Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

[Cloud Strife]

The question is, how many of those 12m (or indeed the many other multi-millions of votes) were actually pro-Biden, and how many were simply anti-Trump? There is a difference.

It's a very good question. I suspect that the anti-Trump vote was particularly strong in southern suburban areas, where people were disgusted personally with Trump. I'm thinking about Georgia again, although we saw it in North Carolina as well. Arizona was also another place where the suburban voters turned on Trump, especially with his behaviour towards John McCain after his death.

If you want to get down and dirty with the analytics and maybe quit edging on conspiracy there is a wide selection of sites you can visit to understand what actually happened both in terms of vote count per state and how those votes panned out over the course of the election.

There's a lot of interesting things that added up to Trump's loss. For instance, in Arizona, Trump's abuse of John McCain almost certainly cost him the state. It wasn't one individual thing, but rather a set of individual circumstances, just like how Clinton lost in 2016 because of her ignoring the Rust Belt voters and their individual issues.

It can't be denied that there was a huge anti-Trump vote that turned out as well, especially in places like Philadelphia. Yet in PA, you also saw Trump underperforming in rural districts compared to 2016.

Musk can’t run for President. He was born in South Africa.

Oof, of course! Well, Bezos then

A classic example of why it is so difficult to reason with someone who is of a conspiratorial mindset - extreme confirmation bias. Anything that contradicts the conspiracy is automatically written off since the source is clearly "in" on it.

I would actually like to hear their opinion on why Trump lost. For instance, what happened in Wisconsin?

Somehow I think we won't get an answer

 

[TwoYellas]

There's a lot of interesting things that added up to Trump's loss. For instance, in Arizona, Trump's abuse of John McCain almost certainly cost him the state. It wasn't one individual thing, but rather a set of individual circumstances, just like how Clinton lost in 2016 because of her ignoring the Rust Belt voters and their individual issues.

I wonder if his pandemic response made a difference. For example calling it the 'China virus' and the injecting bleach theory as well making loony anti mask gestures while the deaths piled up.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I wonder if his pandemic response made a difference. For example calling it the 'China virus' and the injecting bleach theory as well making loony anti mask gestures while the deaths piled up.

For sure, it would have had an effect in suburbia. He seemed to not understand that his path to 270 lay straight through the suburban areas with middle income voters, who weren't going to shout CHINAVIRUS or take horse worming pills.

 

[najaB]

I wonder if his pandemic response made a difference. For example calling it the 'China virus' and the injecting bleach theory as well making loony anti mask gestures while the deaths piled up.

Oh, the pandemic was a guaranteed win for Trump. Supporting the scientists, being seen in public wearing a mask and a successful vaccine roll-out would have seen him win 300+ electoral votes easily.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Oh, the pandemic was a guaranteed win for Trump. Supporting the scientists, being seen in public wearing a mask and a successful vaccine roll-out would have seen him win 300+ electoral votes easily.

Without doubt. All he had to do was show solid leadership by waving the flag and declaring that he would do everything in his power to get the vaccine rolled out and to save American lives. It could be dressed up in pomp and circumstance, and combined with some good old fashioned American militaristic rhetoric, he would have walked to 300+.

One of the enduring mysteries of Trump's era is just why he didn't ditch the crazies after he was elected.

 

[nlogax]

One of the enduring mysteries of Trump's era is just why he didn't ditch the crazies after he was elected.

By the time he was elected he needed to retain their support to keep that ego of his as inflated as possible. He's desperate for that weird right wing nutjob fervour, it's like a drug to him. Hence all the rallies throughout his presidency and beyond.

 

[TwoYellas]

He's desperate for that weird right wing nutjob fervour, it's like a drug to him

An example of this type of craziness appeared in the recent BBC doc 'Big Oil vs The World'.

In a nutshell in the 70's a big oil company's own scientists came to the conclusion that fossil fuels would lead to climate disaster. The company then paid climate sceptics to obfuscate and cause uncertainty.

At one point, I think in the 2000's, these companies claimed that the science was unclear and that action would put the US at a disadvantage and it would cost jobs. The right wing citizens were then protesting on the side of the the big oil companies with banners denouncing people who wanted change.

Fast forward to more recent times. In the series a senator who didn't act said they were misled. And paid lobbyists who went on news channels to say it was all rubbish say that if they had their time again they'd earn money doing something else as they were wrong.

So where does that leave the right wing protesters at the time? The penny usually drops years and years after for them.

 

[Strathclyder]

Technically it does, but in the context of the advance knowledge that Trump was trying to do just that! First rule of right-wing extremism: accuse the other side of doing exactly what you are trying to do yourself.

This reminds of a saying that fits right-wing extremism like a glove: 'Every projection is a confession.' Or something like that.

 

[TwoYellas]

If you're living in the states, and one sunny afternoon you look out the window and see a raucous crowd wearing red MAGA hats chanting 'stop the steal, stop the steal'. Following a self-styled shaman wearing horns and a bearskin headdress with the stars and stripes tatooed across his face.

It's a good idea to just draw the curtains, pour yourself a large whisky and try to forget about what you just saw!

 

[Strathclyder]

If you're living in the states, and one sunny afternoon you look out the window and see a raucous crowd wearing red MAGA hats chanting 'stop the steal, stop the steal'. Following a self-styled shaman wearing horns and a bearskin headdress with the stars and stripes tatooed across his face.

It's a good idea to just draw the curtains, pour yourself a large whisky and try to forget about what you just saw!

Never mind pouring it into a glass, just inject it straight into the bloodstream! Only way to erase such images from one's mind.

 

[Cloud Strife]

By the time he was elected he needed to retain their support to keep that ego of his as inflated as possible. He's desperate for that weird right wing nutjob fervour, it's like a drug to him. Hence all the rallies throughout his presidency and beyond.

It is an interesting psychological case study. He didn't need their support to win in 2020, but instead of moving towards the centre, he went more and more crazy as the months rolled on. Had Trump flipped after his win in 2020 and focused on being an American president, he could have done a substantial amount to heal the divisions in American society.

 

[Gloster]

...he could have done a substantial amount to heal the divisions in American society.

And what advantage or profit is there in that for him?

 

[Typhoon]

And what advantage or profit is there in that for him?

Re-election?

Then he could do what the hell he wanted for the next four years with no 'covid' to hamper him.

 

[najaB]

Re-election?

Then he could do what the hell he wanted for the next four years with no 'covid' to hamper him.

Well, for one thing, when he became president (in 2017) nobody knew anything about Covid-19. By the time Covid hit (2020) it was *way* too late to flip his behaviour.

 

[TwoYellas]

Never mind pouring it into a glass, just inject it straight into the bloodstream! Only way to erase such images from one's mind.

Agreed. I'm beginning to get to that stage myself with the state of the world! Lol

 

[Strathclyder]

Agreed. I'm beginning to get to that stage myself with the state of the world! Lol

I've been well beyond that stage for some time now, only difference now is I can barely contain my contempt for the worst aspects of society and the world as a whole, compared to even a few years ago when I could mask it somewhat.

It's frankly a miracle at this point I've not started knocking back three bottles of vodka a day.

 

[jon0844]

Never mind pouring it into a glass, just inject it straight into the bloodstream! Only way to erase such images from one's mind.

Wasn't that a potential cure for Covid?!

It is an interesting psychological case study. He didn't need their support to win in 2020, but instead of moving towards the centre, he went more and more crazy as the months rolled on. Had Trump flipped after his win in 2020 and focused on being an American president, he could have done a substantial amount to heal the divisions in American society.

Like Boris, he only cares about his own ego. He loved saying controversial things and having people cheer him and, most importantly, donate and donate and then donate some more.

He found his marks and did very well and still makes a lot of money even now with the 'will I or won't I' game on whether he's going to run again.

The party seems now to have finally realised the damage he would do and have told him to stay quiet or they stop paying his legal bills, but he can't stay quiet for long. Like Rudy and others around him, he can't help but keep talking. Even Alex Jones has now had his texts 'leaked' by his attorney and they may also contain juicy texts relating to Trump and Jan 6th.

Like the election, he'll go down by trying to take the whole party with him.

 

[Shrop]

Like the election, he'll go down by trying to take the whole party with him.

The Republican Party had the perfect chance to disassociate themselves from Trump after he lost the election. The whole Party knew exactly what he did in inciting the riots which led to multiple deaths, and how distasteful this was to all decent people. If they didn't take that opportunity to remove Trump from their Party, instead clinging on to him in pathetic despair that he is the best way they could win votes, then the whole Party deserves to sink with him.

 

[Strathclyder]

Wasn't that a potential cure for Covid?!

In that particular context, whisky would've been quantifiably better than what the former Fascist Moron-in-Chief was suggesting!

Even Alex Jones has now had his texts 'leaked' by his attorney and they may also contain juicy texts relating to Trump and Jan 6th.

Yeah, I'm not long after seeing this. 'Accidentally on purpose' I think is what best describes what happened there. Those texts could prove devastating if they were turned over to the January 6th Committee. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving scumbag (Jones) either way.

 

[TwoYellas]

Could B.Sanders do a good job? In my opinion the answer is yes.

 

[Cloud Strife]

He found his marks and did very well and still makes a lot of money even now with the 'will I or won't I' game on whether he's going to run again.

He did! I remember after he lost, his money-making machine was pumping out a huge amount of propaganda along the lines of "DONATE TO FIGHT THE STEAL", then it turned out that he'd spent nearly nothing. Who said Trump was a bad businessman?

 

[Basil Jet]

Silence speaks louder than words, but how many can hear its voice?

 

[TwoYellas]

Silence speaks louder than words, but how many can hear its voice?

Many in the US wanted answers to the loss of industries and lowering living standards. Donald J Trump is not the answer. He's just a populist telling people what they want to hear; a snake oil salesman.

 

[nlogax]

Silence speaks louder than words, but how many can hear its voice?

What silence are you talking about here?

I'm more and more convinced that you're here as the comic relief. Which is fine, I mean, colour me entertained.

 

[Peter Sarf]

,It was not this practice per se, but the combination of this practice with starting the count before the deadline for receiving postal votes, that creates the possibility and potential for fraud. I gave an example of accepting late postal votes in the July 1945 UK general election, but vote counting was also delayed until the deadline for receiving these postal votes had passed.

The thing is the counting was not started until AFTER the deadline for POSTING the postal votes. So unless someone can fraudulently post votes and get them franked with an earlier date on a large enough scale there is no chance of a significant fraud.

Trump got more votes in 2020 than any candidate has ever received before, and yet Biden allegedly got more. However, Biden got fewer votes than Hillary had got 4 years previously in every state and every district, except for the 5 swing states that he needed to win. Somehow Biden's popularity in the 5 swing states was so great that he was able to win more votes nationally than the most popular incumbent of all time despite getting fewer votes than the previous losing candidate in nearly every part of the country.

What this says to me is more people voted in 2020 than in previous elections. Quite easy for both Trump and Biden to get more votes than any one before but what counts is who got to win. Without proportional representation there will always be inconsistencies but that is a fact of life if you have the country divided up into electoral areas.

You've missed out the point that Hillary got more votes overall than Trump did in 2016, but Trump still got into power.
Note also that in every UK election for many decades, the LibDems have been grossly under represented in Parliament according to their votes received, and the Tories generally gain far more seats than their votes represent. The SNP even more so.
The present systems in both the UK and USA encourage negative voting, ie voting against the Party you dislike, rather than in favour of the one you want, and it's never healthy to run a country based on negativity, as we often see so often from our MPs. And from Trump.too. In both countries the present systems are seriously outdated, open to twisting and corruption, and in need of major overhaul.

Agreed. It manifests itself as polarisation - no one favouring the middle ground candidates.

Accusing the other side of doing exactly what you are trying to do yourself is a standard left-wing tactic, in fact, you're using it here.

It s a standard tactic of any side in any argument.

I was with you up until there. What exactly in Elon Musk's history counts as 'proven credentials' where national/international politics is concerned?

Worryingly there might be something in his young freshness and offer of "change".

I wonder if his pandemic response made a difference. For example calling it the 'China virus' and the injecting bleach theory as well making loony anti mask gestures while the deaths piled up.

This just indicates how dangerously out of touch with sane behaviour Trump is. He should not be taken seriously but has to be recognised for the danger he is.

The Republican Party had the perfect chance to disassociate themselves from Trump after he lost the election. The whole Party knew exactly what he did in inciting the riots which led to multiple deaths, and how distasteful this was to all decent people. If they didn't take that opportunity to remove Trump from their Party, instead clinging on to him in pathetic despair that he is the best way they could win votes, then the whole Party deserves to sink with him.

Bit like the way the Tories did not react to Partygate.

Many in the US wanted answers to the loss of industries and lowering living standards. Donald J Trump is not the answer. He's just a populist telling people what they want to hear; a snake oil salesman.

I have been shown examples of where he has said one popularist thing to one group and a conflicting thing to another group. He has aroused parts of the US population to expect the impossible. Trump is a very big danger to democracy.

 

[TwoYellas]

I have been shown examples of where he has said one popularist thing to one group and a conflicting thing to another group. He has aroused parts of the US population to expect the impossible. Trump is a very big danger to democracy.

He's held up the Bible and said that it's his favourite book. When asked by Bloomberg what his favourite verse was he said he didn't want to get into it as its very personal. When asked if he likes the new or old Testament best he replied 'about equal'.

I think I and many others have misunderstood this clearly decent and moral human being.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if Trump is the reincarnation of J R Ewing?

 

[nlogax]

I wonder if Trump is the reincarnation of J R Ewing?

Even as a fictional character JR was more believable and had at least some credibility.

 

[birchesgreen]

Where is Sue Ellen when we need her?

 

[Gloster]

Or perhaps it is all a dream and a real president will emerge from the shower.