Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

185143

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Interesting - I am often on it too! I'd say it seems busier than 50 these days, but definitely not a busy train in general.
That is interesting. Although there used to be a TPE at 19:08, which there obviously now isn't. Maybe it's partly due to that why it's busier?
 
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voyagerdude220

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Well the catering staff working today's 1A62 17:47 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston won't have been able to reserve coach K for their private use, as Avanti posted a message on Journey Check stating that First Class was only available in coach K on that particular service. 390119.
 

Ridercross

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Well the catering staff working today's 1A62 17:47 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston won't have been able to reserve coach K for their private use, as Avanti posted a message on Journey Check stating that First Class was only available in coach K on that particular service. 390119.

Same on the 18:40 Euston to Crewe with coaches H and J Standard Premium. The guard specifically mentioned that there would normally be one First Class coach at weekends now.
 

Merseysider

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Same on my 2048 Liverpool to London last night. Coach K stated as the only 1st class carriage, with 2 standard premium carriages and the rest standard.

TM actively announced the availability of £25 upgrades upon departure from Liverpool. Nobody in my carriage moved.

I was in carriage C, which appeared to have become the new onboard messroom, with 3 staff congregated near the TM’s hidey hole.
 
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peter166

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Well the catering staff working today's 1A62 17:47 Liverpool Lime Street to London Euston won't have been able to reserve coach K for their private use, as Avanti posted a message on Journey Check stating that First Class was only available in coach K on that particular service. 390119.
1A62 was an 11 coach Pendolino (390119) so does that mean that 3 coaches G, H & J were Premium Standard if coach K was the only First Class coach?
 
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Scotrail314209

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Same on my 2048 Liverpool to London last night. Coach K stated as the only 1st class carriage, with 2 standard premium carriages and the rest standard.

TM actively announced the availability of £25 upgrades upon departure from Liverpool. Nobody in my carriage moved.

I was in carriage C, which appeared to have become the new onboard messroom, with 3 staff congregated near the TM’s hidey hole.
Aren't the two seats by the TM's office normally reserved for staff in most cases anyway?
 

Peterthegreat

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I caught two Avanti trains today in the West Midlands, a nine car and an eleven car Pendolino. The single first class coach was around 80% occupied on both occasions. The five (in total) standard premium coaches had fewer passengers than one of the firsts. An absolute joke.
 

Butts

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I caught two Avanti trains today in the West Midlands, a nine car and an eleven car Pendolino. The single first class coach was around 80% occupied on both occasions. The five (in total) standard premium coaches had fewer passengers than one of the firsts. An absolute joke.

This is really going to p*ss people off in 1st Class - used to having 4 to themselves.

Perhaps they really are trying to get rid of First Class by stealth.
 

Hawkwood Junc

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No food loaded at all in first this morning on the 08:30 from New Street to Euston. Staff very apologetic. Standard Premier pretty quiet, 7 of us in Coach K.
 

Furrball

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No food loaded at all in first this morning on the 08:30 from New Street to Euston. Staff very apologetic. Standard Premier pretty quiet, 7 of us in Coach K.
I assume that this is what is being referred to here then?

1632043299215.png

08:05 Wolverhampton to London Euston due 10:26

Facilities on the 08:05 Wolverhampton to London Euston due 10:26.
First class not available.


08:45 Birmingham New Street to Preston due 10:21

Facilities on the 08:45 Birmingham New Street to Preston due 10:21.
First class not available. Catering is reduced Shop only.

09:34 Glasgow Central to London Euston due 14:15

Facilities on the 09:34 Glasgow Central to London Euston due 14:15.
First class not available. Catering is reduced Shop Service Only .

10:58 Preston to London Euston due 13:20

Facilities on the 10:58 Preston to London Euston due 13:20.
First class not available. Catering is reduced Shop only.
 

185143

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Oh well, not to worry. It is "Complimentary" after all. :rolleyes:
Could be an interesting legal case if they refuse to compensate at least the difference between 1st and SP given Standard Premium is just 1st class without the "complimentary" offer.
 

station_road

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Could be an interesting legal case if they refuse to compensate at least the difference between 1st and SP given Standard Premium is just 1st class without the "complimentary" offer.
Given that their website says First Class not available, then looks like they will be refunding the difference between First and Standard (which would be a big improvement if true - no catering loaded means you only pay the Standard fare)
 

Kite159

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Given that their website says First Class not available, then looks like they will be refunding the difference between First and Standard (which would be a big improvement if true - no catering loaded means you only pay the Standard fare)

That is probably what Virgin would have done if they were still running the franchise (and introduced 3 classes), but I suspect Avanti will drag out issuing any sort of refund and when they do it will be only a difference between Standard Premium & First as "you had the benefit of the bigger seats"
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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That is probably what Virgin would have done if they were still running the franchise (and introduced 3 classes), but I suspect Avanti will drag out issuing any sort of refund and when they do it will be only a difference between Standard Premium & First as "you had the benefit of the bigger seats"
But even if they did receive Standard Premium service, this is not a service they chose to pay for. Therefore, morally or ethically, they should get the full difference.
 

Djgr

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I assume that this is what is being referred to here then?

View attachment 102826

08:05 Wolverhampton to London Euston due 10:26

Facilities on the 08:05 Wolverhampton to London Euston due 10:26.
First class not available.


08:45 Birmingham New Street to Preston due 10:21

Facilities on the 08:45 Birmingham New Street to Preston due 10:21.
First class not available. Catering is reduced Shop only.

09:34 Glasgow Central to London Euston due 14:15

Facilities on the 09:34 Glasgow Central to London Euston due 14:15.
First class not available. Catering is reduced Shop Service Only .

10:58 Preston to London Euston due 13:20

Facilities on the 10:58 Preston to London Euston due 13:20.
First class not available. Catering is reduced Shop only.
Yep. Don't introduce the complexity of a third class until you are able to operate two.
 

Emaharg

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I travelled on two Avanti trains on Saturday. 1007 Euston - Liverpool. The half coach of First class was full bar one seat. Standard premium was well loaded three carriages, mostly fans going to Liverpool v Crystal Palace in both classes.
There was an at seat service, which with just one host doing breakfasts and cooking is not enough. My guess is they had no host available where first class was not available on those services, where it was withdrawn.

I also travelled on the 1130 Euston - Glasgow from Wigan to Carlisle. First Class had about 6 or 7 at most on that journey and the Standard Premium was fairly well loaded on a 9 car set.

I am not a fan reducing the First Class accommodation by too much, however there are less seats overall to Scotland on Avanti right now.

I do feel the First Class is not such a great experience if seated in the kitchen carriage though.
 

se1lad

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I travelled on two Avanti trains on Saturday. 1007 Euston - Liverpool. The half coach of First class was full bar one seat. Standard premium was well loaded three carriages, mostly fans going to Liverpool v Crystal Palace in both classes.
There was an at seat service, which with just one host doing breakfasts and cooking is not enough. My guess is they had no host available where first class was not available on those services, where it was withdrawn.

I also travelled on the 1130 Euston - Glasgow from Wigan to Carlisle. First Class had about 6 or 7 at most on that journey and the Standard Premium was fairly well loaded on a 9 car set.

I am not a fan reducing the First Class accommodation by too much, however there are less seats overall to Scotland on Avanti right now.

I do feel the First Class is not such a great experience if seated in the kitchen carriage though.
How was the service in both cases? How often did they do a drinks run?
 

Bletchleyite

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Running a three class service is inherently more involved than running a two class service. That is why Virgin abandoned this notion when Chris Green took over.

In a way, yes. But this specific example doesn't fit with that. If many of your "First Class" passengers haven't paid for the at seat service, you don't have to compensate them if it is not provided.

To be honest, though, I'm not sure I'd do it as three classes. You could turn 1st into SP and have an add-on catering package for those wanting it.
 

Bishopstone

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If the choice becomes First Class in coach K, generally sharing a table with stranger(s) plus kitchen noise, versus Standard Premium with a reasonable probability of getting a ‘4’ to yourself, then I can guess which will prevail.

Time will tell how the loadings settle down, of course. They can play with the pricing and offer in both tiers. My hunch is that ‘privacy, space and quietness’ is more popular than ‘food and booze’.
 

Bletchleyite

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If the choice becomes First Class in coach K, generally sharing a table with stranger(s) plus kitchen noise, versus Standard Premium with a reasonable probability of getting a ‘4’ to yourself, then I can guess which will prevail.

Time will tell how the loadings settle down, of course. They can play with the pricing and offer in both tiers. My hunch is that ‘privacy, space and quietness’ is more popular than ‘food and booze’.

And if that's the case, perhaps it's time to bin "high service" First and just have SP?

I wonder if it's selling many seats on the basis of "not being 1st for expenses fraud purposes" like Eurostar might? If not, just call the new class, er, First Class.
 

Starmill

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And if that's the case, perhaps it's time to bin "high service" First and just have SP?

I wonder if it's selling many seats on the basis of "not being 1st for expenses fraud purposes" like Eurostar might? If not, just call the new class, er, First Class.
I think a key reason they don't do this is because they'd have to charge VAT on meals, but if there's a £90 uplift from Standard Premium to First there's no VAT due.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think a key reason they don't do this is because they'd have to charge VAT on meals, but if there's a £90 uplift from Standard Premium to First there's no VAT due.

I suspect it's also because you can work around expenses tax rules when a meal wouldn't be expensable but a 1st ticket is, but there surely can't be many businesses left willing to pay that.
 

superalbs

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I suspect it's also because you can work around expenses tax rules when a meal wouldn't be expensable but a 1st ticket is, but there surely can't be many businesses left willing to pay that.
Surely they could sell a package called 'First Plus' or something, which includes food and maybe some other benefit. Then they can also sell the food to anyone else who wants it from any class. Winners all round?
 

Bishopstone

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And if that's the case, perhaps it's time to bin "high service" First and just have SP?

I wonder if it's selling many seats on the basis of "not being 1st for expenses fraud purposes" like Eurostar might? If not, just call the new class, er, First Class.

Maybe.

The situation that I don’t think will be commercially sustainable for long is running First Class at a higher occupancy percentage than SP, for significantly more money. For many, the prosecco and gnocchi won’t be a good trade-off for room to spread and the ability to make calls with a degree of privacy.

If it’s just coach K, they could remove First Advances and Off Peaks entirely, selling only Anytime tickets. At £300 a head, they could load 5-10 per train, put on 2 staff (maximum), and still make decent money. Although I’m not sure what they’d do about First season ticket holders paying £50 per trip, Rovers and Privs etc, and to say this Super Exclusive service would be politically controversial is an understatement!
 

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