Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Miken]

Tonight I have just departed Lime St on the 1847 bound for Euston. It is a 9 car Pendo and coaches H & J have been designated Standard Premium. I'm in K, in a tiny seat, no elbow room paying a much higher price than the TWO people who are in H/J. I've been travelling the NWCML with Virgin then this mob for 20 years, have spent 10's of thousands on 1st class travel and now I feel like the least valued passenger on the train. I travel for business but have also enjoyed the space and tbh luxury of 1st class travel. The message I am getting is that 1st Class is no longer important and that a Ryanair style future awaits. I'm seriously considering going back to the roads as this is just putting business passengers in total contempt. As passengers we vote with our feet and Avanti's demonstratable attitude is the worst I have ever encountered.

 

[williamn]

Tonight I have just departed Lime St on the 1847 bound for Euston. It is a 9 car Pendo and coaches H & J have been designated Standard Premium. I'm in K, in a tiny seat, no elbow room paying a much higher price than the TWO people who are in H/J. I've been travelling the NWCML with Virgin then this mob for 20 years, have spent 10's of thousands on 1st class travel and now I feel like the least valued passenger on the train. I travel for business but have also enjoyed the space and tbh luxury of 1st class travel. The message I am getting is that 1st Class is no longer important and that a Ryanair style future awaits. I'm seriously considering going back to the roads as this is just putting business passengers in total contempt. As passengers we vote with our feet and Avanti's demonstratable attitude is the worst I have ever encountered.

Why would the seat be tiny? It’s the same seat that’s always been in first class.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why would the seat be tiny? It’s the same seat that’s always been in first class.

The majority of Coach K seating is airline seats. An airline seat with someone next to you (there will be if First is K only) on a train with a questionable window layout is not fun. The downgrade Avanti have given to First class in terms of privacy and space, while RAISING the price for it at the same time, is appalling.

 

[Miken]

Why would the seat be tiny? It’s the same seat that’s always been in first class.

I am rammed into K10, a small table with much less elbow room than most seats in J &H.

 

[Vespa]

Tonight I have just departed Lime St on the 1847 bound for Euston. It is a 9 car Pendo and coaches H & J have been designated Standard Premium. I'm in K, in a tiny seat, no elbow room paying a much higher price than the TWO people who are in H/J. I've been travelling the NWCML with Virgin then this mob for 20 years, have spent 10's of thousands on 1st class travel and now I feel like the least valued passenger on the train. I travel for business but have also enjoyed the space and tbh luxury of 1st class travel. The message I am getting is that 1st Class is no longer important and that a Ryanair style future awaits. I'm seriously considering going back to the roads as this is just putting business passengers in total contempt. As passengers we vote with our feet and Avanti's demonstratable attitude is the worst I have ever encountered.

You're probably not far off, Avanti is looking like it's going to be the "Ryanair" of the railways.

 

[92002]

Railway staff shortages because of Brexit? Not a chance of there ever being a shortage of staff for any reason on the railway. Every vacancy is massively oversubscribed.

Don't know about staff shortages on Avanti. The chefs who are on furlough have now returned. Presumably only working Monday to Friday as before. So the problem is at a weekend in First when only one host is chef, server and barman. Believe the staff are rumbling about weekend staffing. The rumour is a vote and industrial action. Probable expansion of First to coaches J and K on a weekend and maybe a second staff member too.

 

[basfordlad]

Now avanti have SP how many coaches are first class?

 

[Falcon1200]

0737 Glasgow Cental-Euston yesterday (Wed 6th October), 2 coaches were Standard Premium, leaving 1.5 as First Class. In those 1.5 coaches, as far as I could see, every single seat had some form of reservation, either from A to B, 'Traveller', or the ridiculous "Available if unoccupied'. The ambience was far more pleasant, and spacious, in the Standard Premium vehicles.. Do Avanti actually want First Class business at all ?

 

[Tester]

I'm on the same train sitting in J7, which is one of the six seats shown in the specification to be treated as first class (with antimacassars duly saying so). Whilst this covers the needs of disabled passengers, there is nothing in the specification to say that able bodied passengers are to be refused service. However this seems to have evolved on the ground. I was in the same situation recently and was served after an initial reluctance, but tonight not so.

Another reason for the coach J seats is to redress the extreme paucity of facing seats on southbound services.

Hey ho!

 

[Bishopstone]

As I said at post #1135, we are going to discover whether ‘space and privacy’ are more popular than ‘food and booze’. It is a fascinating experiment.

 

[Trackman]

Now avanti have SP how many coaches are first class?

Seems a bit if a lottery at the moment.

I am rammed into K10, a small table with much less elbow room than most seats in J &H.

I know which seats you mean. There's no chance of putting a laptop on the table, unless it's really small.
Going back to an earlier post of yours in this thread, I have known First passengers up sticks to SP and be served First class in there, but they were real nice and polite about the request rather than ranting and raving about First being rammed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am rammed into K10, a small table with much less elbow room than most seats in J &H.

Not sure what you mean by "less elbow room", they are the exact same seats as elsewhere in the train. If I was going to criticise K it would be that the seats are slightly closer together and so window alignment is slightly off. But single seats are very much a premium thing on Pendolinos.

I'm on the same train sitting in J7, which is one of the six seats shown in the specification to be treated as first class (with antimacassars duly saying so). Whilst this covers the needs of disabled passengers, there is nothing in the specification to say that able bodied passengers are to be refused service. However this seems to have evolved on the ground. I was in the same situation recently and was served after an initial reluctance, but tonight not so.

I see that the bone-idleness of some of the service staff has not been addressed even if they have been booted out of the messroom, sorry, Coach K.

 

[Djgr]

So three class trains still going well I see.

 

[Blinkbonny]

I'm on the same train sitting in J7, which is one of the six seats shown in the specification to be treated as first class (with antimacassars duly saying so). Whilst this covers the needs of disabled passengers, there is nothing in the specification to say that able bodied passengers are to be refused service. However this seems to have evolved on the ground. I was in the same situation recently and was served after an initial reluctance, but tonight not so.

That is actually quite shocking. You are actually sitting in a designated First Class seat with a First Class ticket but are being refused service?

 

[Retorus]

Not sure what you mean by "less elbow room", they are the exact same seats as elsewhere in the train. If I was going to criticise K it would be that the seats are slightly closer together and so window alignment is slightly off. But single seats are very much a premium thing on Pendolinos.



I see that the bone-idleness of some of the service staff has not been addressed even if they have been booted out of the messroom, sorry, Coach K.

To be fair I think seat K10 has one of those awful tables that span the two seats, rather than the individual or four-person tables you get in most other parts of First Class. There's really very little room in those if you're a bigger person.

 

[Mikey C]

By the sound of things, Avanti have allocated too much space to SP, and need to perhaps reduce it to 1 carriage as it doesn't sound like many standards passengers are upgrading at the moment?

 

[station_road]

The seats in coach K are closer together than in the other First coaches, so although they are the same width larger people will find them more cramped (and the fixed tables don't even give you the choice to sit in them and keep the table folded up, which you can do in Standard airline seats).

One of the benefits of First Class was that on 99% of trains you didn't need a reservation and could just turn up and find a seat - that helped justify the pricing but it's no longer true

 

[Mag_seven]

So by the looks of things if you want privacy and space you go standard premium but if you want complimentary food and drink you go first i.e. you can't have both. But of course previously with first you had both! I'm sure there will be a few returning first class business passengers who will be peeved at the loss of space they once enjoyed just for the sake of a free cup of tea or free gin and tonic.

 

[takno]

Don't know about staff shortages on Avanti. The chefs who are on furlough have now returned. Presumably only working Monday to Friday as before. So the problem is at a weekend in First when only one host is chef, server and barman. Believe the staff are rumbling about weekend staffing. The rumour is a vote and industrial action. Probable expansion of First to coaches J and K on a weekend and maybe a second staff member too.

I don't see that being the outcome of industrial action tbh. More likely would be an elimination of first class altogether, followed by a reintroduction a year later with cheaper non-union stewards.

All the people complaining that more space is given over to SP need to bear in mind that a coach or SP is scheduled to go over to normal standard in the refit, so that's not a long term situation either.

 

[williamn]

I've travelled in the first class from Glasgow to London three times in the last three weeks. Always been 1.5 coaches of it, and about 25% full I'd say. As ever with these things the experience entirely depends on the staff and every single time the service is done differently.

First crew was the best, who served little pots of crisps and did a Prosecco run on departure - almost like business class on an airline.

Others have been less good, and there's no thought as to what you might want when - why serve chocolates and crisps together from a tray when I'm already eating my food? Surely its logical to serve crisps before and chocolate after with hot drinks?

Last night there were no menus and they only had three food options and none hot - apart from when someone complained and they magically found some gnocchi. It's all just a bit haphazard. Plus I am already bored of the menu after just 3 trips.

With a little attention to detail and consistency from the crews it could be really great.

However I got each trip for £35 on Seatfrog so I'm paying £5 extra for the food and drinks over SP, so its not bad.

Unrelated to SP and First class but I find the pendolinos unbearably hot at the moment which leads to me feeling quite sick by the end of a 5 hour trip.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see that being the outcome of industrial action tbh. More likely would be an elimination of first class altogether, followed by a reintroduction a year later with cheaper non-union stewards.

Or the removal of SP and First becoming SP, effectively. (Though the name has the advantage of being able to be sneaked through some less observant expenses processes, I suppose).

It's hard to tell with Avanti but I do have the feeling that a three-class service is not their long-term plan.

 

[Djgr]

Or the removal of SP and First becoming SP, effectively. (Though the name has the advantage of being able to be sneaked through some less observant expenses processes, I suppose).

It's hard to tell with Avanti but I do have the feeling that a three-class service is not their long-term plan.

We are never going to make any progress in terms of addressing the anarchy of fare types if TOCs are permitted to come up and implement their madcap ideas that are in direct opposition to simplification.

 

[paddy1]

I firmly believe Avanti's long term intention is to get rid of First Class by stealth by making it so expensive and out of reach to leisure travellers who used to use it, as well as unappealing to the reduced number of business passengers still willing and able, or whose employer is, to pay the full fare but are put off by being crammed into fewer or, in some cases, only one coach, coach K.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We are never going to make any progress in terms of addressing the anarchy of fare types if TOCs are permitted to come up and implement their madcap ideas that are in direct opposition to simplification.

Of course if SP becomes popular enough, we could well end up with 1st reverting to that and the on-board crews being reduced.

Not wishing anyone out of a job specifically (other than any who have asked people to move from Coach K so they could sit around chatting there) but I would certainly hope for that kind of First Class, which is what SP provides.

 

[telstarbox]

London to Lake District/Scotland trains should definitely have hot food available whether it's inclusive or chargeable. Arguably London to Manchester/Liverpool as well if people are travelling when they would otherwise be eating a meal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London to Lake District/Scotland trains should definitely have hot food available whether it's inclusive or chargeable. Arguably London to Manchester/Liverpool as well if people are travelling when they would otherwise be eating a meal.

I would definitely be happy with a chargeable food/drink offering, ideally the same offered in both classes. Indeed, I hugely prefer easyJet and Ryanair's wide paid-for choice rather than "manky sandwich or nowt" as tended to be the case on free-food airlines. Avanti are already providing at seat ordering in Standard using your phone*, and the problem of "people who travel First Class who don't have a smartphone" (a very small number of people) could be dealt with by them ordering at the buffet or just checking occasionally when doing the tea and coffee replenishment.

I could be sold on free tea/coffee/bottled water, I suppose, possibly done as self-service by having flasks and cups in each coach for you to get your own when you want it. Very cheap to provide, and the buffet steward could replenish them if they ran out.

Personally I prefer to take a selection on from M&S or similar so would prefer not to be paying for "free" food and service in my fare which I don't actually want. I do want to pay a reasonable uplift for a wider, more comfortable, window-aligned seat, ideally on the 1 side.

* Though it needs improving so it doesn't require using the on-train wifi; most people probably don't bother connecting to that these days. There's a QR code sticker on the back of the seat for it - hardly hard for that to redirect to avantiwestcoast.com/order-me-some-food/390001 or something so they know which train you're on!

 

[py_megapixel]

* Though it needs improving so it doesn't require using the on-train wifi; most people probably don't bother connecting to that these days. There's a QR code sticker on the back of the seat for it - hardly hard for that to redirect to avantiwestcoast.com/order-me-some-food/390001 or something so they know which train you're on!

I think you'd find regular users would attempt to bookmark the page in their browser, then end up ordering food on the wrong train.

Are mobile browsers generally set up to allow camera access? If so, you could have a short URL to type - say "avantifood.com" (well, that domain is taken but it wouldn't be that hard to think of something similar) with a page which scans a QR code within the browser to determine which unit you're on. Any attempt to go directly to a given unit's page would just result in a redirection to the code scanner.

 

[XAM2175]

Are mobile browsers generally set up to allow camera access? If so, you could have a short URL to type - say "avantifood.com" (well, that domain is taken but it wouldn't be that hard to think of something similar) with a page which scans a QR code within the browser to determine which unit you're on. Any attempt to go directly to a given unit's page would just result in a redirection to the code scanner.

LNER's at-seat QR sticker did something very similar for me (using Chrome on Android) just a few days ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are mobile browsers generally set up to allow camera access?

Yes. Chrome, Firefox and Safari can all do that on both Android and iOS.

 

[takno]

I think you'd find regular users would attempt to bookmark the page in their browser, then end up ordering food on the wrong train.

Are mobile browsers generally set up to allow camera access? If so, you could have a short URL to type - say "avantifood.com" (well, that domain is taken but it wouldn't be that hard to think of something similar) with a page which scans a QR code within the browser to determine which unit you're on. Any attempt to go directly to a given unit's page would just result in a redirection to the code scanner.

It's certainly possible, but it would require additional permissions for the page, and would be much more fiddly.

It would be a lot easier to just let you scan the barcode, and then have the page store the service and seat number and forward you onto a normal URL like Avantifood.com. That way if a user bookmarked the link they landed on, next time they would just be shown a page saying "please scan the barcode next to your seat"