Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Purple Orange]

In what way? TGV 1st is 2+1, which is the main distinguishing feature of 1st on an IC service. I do agree Pendolino 1st is better than any First Class SNCF have to offer, though, it really is very good.

Yes, I would like to see 1st being all like that - but it is a bit "back to the future" - lots of freebies were a post-privatisation thing, before that it tended just to be tea, coffee and the likes. I also prefer paid catering on short-haul air - it can be better (in terms of choice, quality *and* quantity) because you don't need enough for everyone, and you only pay for it if you want it.

Oh am I mistaken then, and Avanti Standard Premium is 2+2? Thw reason I was linking to TGV first is the fact that it is a very basic 1st class compared to the offering, albeit overspeced, first class we have here.

 

[Butts]

I like First Class breakfasts, and would happily go for the full product there, but the rest of the time the free catering seems disappointing, and like you, the seat matters more than the food.

But not as much as the Free Scotch which for me is the most appealing aspect of the 1st Class offering.

You can often "drink your fare" with a good catering crew and lengthy journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely upgrades only make sense if you are using spare capacity that at other times is fully utilised. if you no longer need the capacity why not change the coaches to standard? The fares from the extra seats must outwieght any upgrades. Has not the time come for the ending of first class on all routes it would be much more energy efficient to have all standard class trains on all routes.

Avanti West Coast generally doesn't have a capacity issue (even pre COVID). Standees on the Brums and Mancs are very, very unusual and only at specific times of week i.e. Friday/Sunday evenings.

Oh am I mistaken then, and Avanti Standard Premium is 2+2?

No, it's the regular Pendolino First Class, 2+1.

Thw reason I was linking to TGV first is the fact that it is a very basic 1st class compared to the offering, albeit overspeced, first class we have here.

TGV first class is 2+1 as well. It's very similar to the 80x though the seats are nicer.

I wouldn't say UK First Class is overspecced, though the Pendolino is certainly the best of the breed. (The old GWR and LNER first classes look fancier but I don't find the seats to be anywhere near as comfortable).

 

[mark-h]

I think one thing it's intended to aim at is business travellers who get food on the train on the way home from a business-hours day trip, which would, if purchased and expensed separately, be a taxable benefit.

Meal expenses* when travelling on business are not a taxable benefit (url=https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim31816]HMRC examples[/url]. Some companies' expenses policies may have restrictions on what can be claimed (such as requiring only providing an evening meal if the employee arrives home very late or restricting alcohol) so if it can be included in a travel booking then it may get round company policy.

There may be issues for staff where the railway companies advertise First Class as including a meal when it is more of a light snack, or not provided at all.

*within reason

 

[All Line Rover]

Looking at the fares released today, Avanti have renamed the weekend 1st upgrade to "weekend standard premium". These stay at existing weekend 1st prices, which are slightly lower than weekday "standard premium" prices. Does this mean that weekend 1st has been ditched and the only way to travel first class "proper" on weekends is to buy a first class fare before boarding a train? If there will be three classes on weekends, I'm not sure what the difference will be between standard premium and first given the very limited first class catering on weekends.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at the fares released today, Avanti have renamed the weekend 1st upgrade to "weekend standard premium", at slightly lower prices than regular "standard premium". Does this mean that weekend 1st has been ditched and the only way to travel first class "proper" is to buy a first class fare before boarding a train? If there will be three classes on weekends, I'm not sure what the difference will be between standard premium and first given the very limited first class catering on weekends.

As weekend First Class doesn't have the full service, I suspect it might be that there will only be the two classes available on weekends. Nobody is going to pay a small fortune for a snack box and a paper cup of tea.

 

[All Line Rover]

Would make more sense. Very expensive first class Advance tickets currently remain on sale for Saturdays and Sundays, however. I would be annoyed if I bought such tickets, only to find on the day of travel that first class doesn't exist.

EDIT: My bad. Weekend first still exists but is priced the same as weekday "standard premium". So, apparently, there are still three classes at weekends. Interesting. A choice of upgrades could be confusing for less frequent passengers!

 

[yorkie]

Would make more sense. Very expensive first class Advance tickets currently remain on sale for Saturdays and Sundays, however. I would be annoyed if I bought such tickets, only to find on the day of travel that first class doesn't exist.

If that happened you'd be entitled to a refund of the difference!

EDIT: My bad. Weekend first still exists but is priced the same as weekday "standard premium". So, apparently, there are still three classes at weekends. Interesting. A choice of upgrades could be confusing for less frequent passengers!

The rail industry likes it that way

 

[Bletchleyite]

EDIT: My bad. Weekend first still exists but is priced the same as weekday "standard premium". So, apparently, there are still three classes at weekends. Interesting. A choice of upgrades could be confusing for less frequent passengers!

Ah, so what's the uplift for a snack box and a paper cup of tea?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As weekend First Class doesn't have the full service, I suspect it might be that there will only be the two classes available on weekends. Nobody is going to pay a small fortune for a snack box and a paper cup of tea.

Ah, but instead of snack boxes we now have the ever-so-grand picnic trays

I see no point in having both First class and Standard Premium on weekends as indeed what the latter will offer is more or less what you get on first class at the weekend anyway, just without the small cold food option and occasional hot drink - and as you said, that rather pales into significance alongside the weekday offer and would not justify the price difference even slightly.

 

[p.d87]

Plans are in place so that 1st class weekends are going to be amended to better match the weekday offering. (A 7 day 1st class service, hot food etc.) This is why the standard premium will still be available Saturday and Sunday. When that is being rolled out is not yet known.

 

[Journeyman]

Plans are in place so that 1st class weekends are going to be amended to better match the weekday offering. (A 7 day 1st class service, hot food etc.) This is why the standard premium will still be available Saturday and Sunday. When that is being rolled out is not yet known.

Interesting. This seems like a recognition that first class is no longer a business product that is irrelevant at weekends.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. This seems like a recognition that first class is no longer a business product that is irrelevant at weekends.

Or it's an experiment to see which one people prefer. If "proper" first is empty at weekends, then there's your answer. OTOH I can see free drink proving very popular!

 

[Scotrail314209]

The way some of the weekend loadings can be on certain routes (particularly Scotland - London) in First Class, it can get relatively busy throughout with people making the most of the upgrades. If Standard Premium does prove popular, then more than one carriage might not be enough.

 

[Trackman]

Plans are in place so that 1st class weekends are going to be amended to better match the weekday offering. (A 7 day 1st class service, hot food etc.) This is why the standard premium will still be available Saturday and Sunday. When that is being rolled out is not yet known.

They already did it, it only lasted a week or so because of Covid. Basically a weekday 'day' menu and one hot item IIRC.
I suppose it is still going as you can help yourself (within reason) at the shop at weekends still, which is the same as weekday First.

 

[p.d87]

The previous trial for standard premium was on the wolves route only as this is the shortest route and if viable there it would be easy to implement elsewhere. The trial got stopped due to low passenger numbers so getting feedback and uptake was low.

It's been one of the initial obligations of winning the franchise to bring weekend first class in line with the weekday but covid put a stop to it starting sooner. With a roadmap out of lockdown etc it can restart. Hopefully leisure travel will see increases of passenger numbers as business travel will take far longer to return.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Plans are in place so that 1st class weekends are going to be amended to better match the weekday offering. (A 7 day 1st class service, hot food etc.) This is why the standard premium will still be available Saturday and Sunday. When that is being rolled out is not yet known.

About time too, if you ask me

 

[greatvoyager]

Has there been any update on this?

 

[Trackman]

I’ve spoken to someone in the know about this.
Standard premium they are still mulling over as they are going to town with first class to make it a real premium service. Also mentioned they will be a price hike for first class tickets because of this.
As it stands there is a mon-friday off peak upgrade to first, think its double weekend upgrade. Don’t know what services it’s available on.

 

[takno]

I’ve spoken to someone in the know about this.
Standard premium they are still mulling over as they are going to town with first class to make it a real premium service. Also mentioned they will be a price hike for first class tickets because of this.
As it stands there is a mon-friday off peak upgrade to first, think its double weekend upgrade. Don’t know what services it’s available on.

It's an interesting plan. I'd probably sometimes pay full-price first or a bit more if it came with a real 3-4 course meal and attentive service, and I'd certainly welcome a relatively cheap upgrade into a more comfortable seat without the current disappointment-box and piecemeal limited drinks service.

 

[Journeyman]

Are we talking a big catering upgrade here?

 

[AlterEgo]

....as they are going to town with first class to make it a real premium service. Also mentioned they will be a price hike for first class tickets because of this.

Interesting to know. I'd definitely support a higher quality first class product.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting to know. I'd definitely support a higher quality first class product.

I guess this would be aimed at leisure travel, as businesses increasingly won't pay for it (but might pay for a cheap upgrade to "Standard Premium" as they can get away with saying it's not first class and it would enable working on the train)?

It seems an odd time to be developing very premium offerings.

 

[AlterEgo]

I guess this would be aimed at leisure travel, as businesses increasingly won't pay for it (but might pay for a cheap upgrade to "Standard Premium" as they can get away with saying it's not first class and it would enable working on the train)?

It seems an odd time to be developing very premium offerings.

Almost certainly a leisure offering. Properly priced advance, fixed train tickets and consistent at seat service will win a fair amount of custom over longer distances, even if they only implement it on the Anglo-Scot routes to compete with British Airways.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Almost certainly a leisure offering. Properly priced advance, fixed train tickets and consistent at seat service will win a fair amount of custom over longer distances, even if they only implement it on the Anglo-Scot routes to compete with British Airways.

Yeah, there'd be an argument to only offer Standard Premium on the Birmingham services as they're too short for the "frills". Manchester and possibly Liverpool I could see both working.

 

[Journeyman]

Almost certainly a leisure offering. Properly priced advance, fixed train tickets and consistent at seat service will win a fair amount of custom over longer distances, even if they only implement it on the Anglo-Scot routes to compete with British Airways.

I'd certainly be tempted if it wasn't too expensive. LNER first class isn't great these days.

 

[Scotrail314209]

An enhanced first class at the weekends would go down extremely well imo, since before the pandemic hit weekend first on services out of Euston was very popular.

 

[YorksLad12]

I'd certainly be tempted if it wasn't too expensive. LNER first class isn't great these days.

The price seems to have risen steeply as well for Advance Purchase tickets. Leeds-London off peak is almost twice the cost of York-Edinburgh. I tend to do First Class on evening trains back from London so I (a) get a seat and (b) get fed but I wouldn't do it just for a top-up of Fairtrade (not even Yorkshire!) tea, a sandwich and a few biscuits.

Hopefully Avanti can find a good balance... LNER has lost its.

 

[greatvoyager]

I’ve spoken to someone in the know about this.
Standard premium they are still mulling over as they are going to town with first class to make it a real premium service. Also mentioned they will be a price hike for first class tickets because of this.
As it stands there is a mon-friday off peak upgrade to first, think its double weekend upgrade. Don’t know what services it’s available on.

That’s interesting, wouldn’t be surprised about a price hike.

 

[Bishopstone]

I’ve spoken to someone in the know about this.
Standard premium they are still mulling over as they are going to town with first class to make it a real premium service. Also mentioned they will be a price hike for first class tickets because of this.
As it stands there is a mon-friday off peak upgrade to first, think its double weekend upgrade. Don’t know what services it’s available on.

Month 1: Here’s a Pullman-quality meal, served with a smile and a large glass of red.
Month 12: Here’s a box of assorted cheeses because the microwaveable curry has run out. Can you take it and kindly vacate coach K, because the chef needs a sit-down.