CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Philip]

There are so many elements to this that need to fall into place before it can happen, none of which anyone can determine when with any certainty - why do people keep asking these sort of questions on this thread?

It will happen when it happens is the only answer that anyone can give.

I think it's a fairly reasonable question to ask considering they entered service in North Wales about 5 months ago and that training along the South Wales route has been ramped up.

 

[Jez]

I think it's a fairly reasonable question to ask considering they entered service in North Wales about 5 months ago and that training along the South Wales route has been ramped up.

I agree. I think its quite reasonable for people to be asking on a discussion thread about the CAF 197s.

 

[el_lnrd]

All the more given the problems the service is facing at the moment, which one could argue are partly due to the management of the transition to 197s and how long we have been waiting for them...

I wonder whether the issue around sliding toilets doors has been identified as a problem by maintenance/tfw since they have been introduced into service (rail magazine article)...

 

[berneyarms]

I think it's a fairly reasonable question to ask considering they entered service in North Wales about 5 months ago and that training along the South Wales route has been ramped up.

It is pretty obvious that it can’t happen until all of the drivers in the various depots are fully trained up, given the risk of someone being rostered who has not been trained up that’s not been trained.

That’s not going to happen in a matter of a few months, given we are talking about multiple depots.

 

[Philip]

It is pretty obvious that it can’t happen until all of the drivers in the various depots are fully trained up, given the risk of someone being rostered who has not been trained up that’s not been trained.

That’s not going to happen in a matter of a few months, given we are talking about multiple depots.

I don't think this is true about all drivers needing to be trained before entering service; they started appearing on Manchester-Llandudno services before all of the traincrew at Chester had been trained up. After 6 months of training (which will be around July) you'd expect a sizeable number of drivers and guards to have been trained up across all the depots and probably enough to cover a diagram.

I think other TOCs have links which sign particular units so they could do this with the 197s while training is ongoing. Also possibly have training runs on diagrams in passenger service.

 

[craigybagel]

I don't think this is true about all drivers needing to be trained before entering service; they started appearing on Manchester-Llandudno services before all of the traincrew at Chester had been trained up. After 6 months of training (which will be around July) you'd expect a sizeable number of drivers and guards to have been trained up across all the depots and probably enough to cover a diagram.

I think other TOCs have links which sign particular units so they could do this with the 197s while training is ongoing. Also possibly have training runs on diagrams in passenger service.

It's not so much that every driver has to be trained, but the complexities of the Manchester - South Wales service is such that it does need to be a large enough group of drivers at all 4 depots (Crewe, Shrewsbury, Cardiff Mainline and Carmarthen) before introduction can take place.

TfW do occasionally allocate certain traction only to certain links, and I believe there's currently only one link at Cardiff Mainline getting trained, but it's a very complex and difficult thing to set up - especially when the reality is all drivers at the depots concerned need training ASAP.

At the moment there's very limited work for these units on routes that the other depots sign, making training on service trains a little more difficult (though not impossible) - but that should hopefully be changing soon when they start appearing on Holyhead - Cardiff services.

 

[william.martin]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I just noticed the attatched today on RTT - is this an RTT error or are they already running this service?

 

[Bob Price]

They have been doing test runs Crewe to Holyhead for months so it could be a thing.

 

[craigybagel]

Lots of 197s turning up on North Wales - Crewe services on a Sunday, including this particular service.

 

[43102EMR]

Not to mention they’ve been running pretty much all over the North Wales Coast since the new year - think the only things they haven’t done yet is the Holyhead to Cardiff/Birmingham routes.

 

[childwallblues]

Yesterday the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street service had 4 four car 197010 + 197007 all day. Obviously TfW thought ahead because of the Eurovision opening concert on St Georges Plateau outside Lime Street Station last night.
197018 is on the service today.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are so many elements to this that need to fall into place before it can happen, none of which anyone can determine when with any certainty - why do people keep asking these sort of questions on this thread?
It will happen when it happens is the only answer that anyone can give.

Business cases don't work like that, and the retirement of 175s and other stock is being held up until 197s can go everywhere they are planned to.
It's only taxpayer's money were are playing with, after all.

 

[Wrexham12]

Are we still likely to see 197 on Cardiff-Holyheads in the time table change?

 

[victormildrew]

3x2 car197s just left Shrewsbury Abbey foregate loop i think from Donnington onward to Cardiff.

 

[Techniquest]

Hopefully they make it then, with the big storm that's rolling over Hereford right now I have a feeling there's a line closure imminent.

 

[Jez]

Are we still likely to see 197 on Cardiff-Holyheads in the time table change?

Some are booked 197s from the timetable change but may not be a 197 that turn up initially.

 

[Wrexham12]

Some are booked 197s from the timetable change but may not be a 197 that turn up initially.

Will they be 2 or 3 car sets booked?

 

[Jez]

Will they be 2 or 3 car sets booked?

Not sure I'm afraid. Anyone else able to advise?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Will they be 2 or 3 car sets booked?

Mix of both.

3x2 car197s just left Shrewsbury Abbey foregate loop i think from Donnington onward to Cardiff.

Came from Chester earlier on.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Mix of both.

It said just 3-197 and MK4s on that route in the publication spreadsheets.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It said just 3-197 and MK4s on that route in the publication spreadsheets.

Not from May. Not all holyheads are booked 197, some are 2s and 3s, some are regular units and 1V91 and 1W96 remain Mk4.

 

[Jez]

It said just 3-197 and MK4s on that route in the publication spreadsheets.

Its likely to be a mixture of 175s and Sprinters covering for the 197s from May. I imagine whatever is available on the day hopefully a 175!

 

[craigybagel]

It'll be the same as with the 67s on Cardiff - Manchester. There might be lots booked from day 1, but it'll be more of a drip feed into service.

 

[sw1ller]

Looks like two 197’s (001 & 006) will be on the Wrexham bidston line tomorrow. I’m not 100% on it but when I left work they were on the sheets to work 5j80 in the morning which is always the units working to Wrexham to carry on to work the bidstons.

Might be of interest to someone. If they end up working something else then I’m sorry.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Looks like two 197’s (001 & 006) will be on the Wrexham bidston line tomorrow. I’m not 100% on it but when I left work they were on the sheets to work 5j80 in the morning which is always the units working to Wrexham to carry on to work the bidstons.

Might be of interest to someone. If they end up working something else then I’m sorry.

006 is on Liverpools. I didn't think 001 was an accepted unit? The line is not showing allocations for me.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

150256 and 150267 on today

 

[Caaardiff]

Looks like two 197’s (001 & 006) will be on the Wrexham bidston line tomorrow. I’m not 100% on it but when I left work they were on the sheets to work 5j80 in the morning which is always the units working to Wrexham to carry on to work the bidstons.

Might be of interest to someone. If they end up working something else then I’m sorry.

5J80 forms the Wrexham - Liverpool service. No plans to use 197s on Bidston (currently)

 

[sw1ller]

I do apologise. Genuinely thought that was the bidston units. Sorry

 

[317 forever]

Sadly my train from East Didsbury to Shotton yesterday was not a 197 but still a 175. I did see a 197 pass in the opposite direction just before we reached Chester.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Sadly my train from East Didsbury to Shotton yesterday was not a 197 but still a 175. I did see a 197 pass in the opposite direction just before we reached Chester.

There were 3 more 197s than usual on Liverpool services yesterday for eurovision, so that's why there was probably a substitution.