MrCheeseGrater
Member
I think they would be a far better alternative to the GWR networkers when they are deployed on long distance routes like Cardiff to Portsmouth.
Remember the Mk1-Mk3 coaches with 48 First or 72 Second class seats?I agree they have a comfortable interior, but their low density seating makes them unsuitable for InterCity services.
Conversely, their swift acceleration makes them eminently suitable for services like East West Rail, which is why Chiltern should take them.
Why does EW need swift acceleration? Its not like its stopping every 5 minutes.I agree they have a comfortable interior, but their low density seating makes them unsuitable for InterCity services.
Conversely, their swift acceleration makes them eminently suitable for services like East West Rail, which is why Chiltern should take them.
It depends where the stops are on the Marston Vale, and also futureproofing for the London - Aylesbury - MK via Calvert option.Why does EW need swift acceleration? Its not like its stopping every 5 minutes.
No, I was born after the millennium!Remember the Mk1-Mk3 coaches with 48 First or 72 Second class seats?
I agree they have a comfortable interior, but their low density seating makes them unsuitable for InterCity services.
Comfort may be important, but we need to strike a balance between comfort and capacity.You what? Low density seating is eminently suitable for InterCity services as comfort is important. High density seating is for commuter services.
The seat is similar in design to the new Avanti seat, and so is actually quite space efficient.
Have you got a link to the projected passenger figures for EWR and the actual and projected future ones for ScotRail IC?Comfort may be important, but we need to strike a balance between comfort and capacity.
And the 175s don't have enough capacity to be the single fleet for ScotRail's IC services, while they do easily for something like EWR.
Comfort may be important, but we need to strike a balance between comfort and capacity.
And the 175s don't have enough capacity to be the single fleet for ScotRail's IC services, while they do easily for something like EWR.
That won't be a through service, it will be Northampton-esque with a big dwell. It won't be 100mph either.It depends where the stops are on the Marston Vale, and also futureproofing for the London - Aylesbury - MK via Calvert option.
Scotrail don't need 100mph stock, they need 125mph intercity stock to replace their HSTs if anything.
Indeed if you compare an IC125 with a buffet and first class (2+1 seating) with class 175s with their current interiors (low-density 2+2 standard class seating throughout) I wouldn't be surprised if the 175 had slightly more seats (a total of 304 for a 5-car 175 I think) than the HST.A 5 car 175 formation has a similar capacity to a short HST.
Why do they need Alstom maintenance? The reliability of the 458s improved markedly once Alstom weren’t involved.Saddened to the end of the 175s with TfW had lots of good memories riding them over the years and I will miss them, I wonder if the corrosion issues are indeed the reason they've been replaced. I do think Chiltern will suit them if they do indeed go there but reliability may be a problem now they are not at Chester they will need Alstom maintenance.
100mph is absolutely fine but the 175’s wouldn’t work. Ideally ScotRail need 6-7 car sets on most of the Inter7City stuff now and even sets in multiple would be a pain. There’s always a 158/170 5 car that does the 10:33 from Edinburgh now and it’s usually pretty full. The Inverness to Edinburgh trains during the day are almost always so full they either leave people behind or they whack up the price of an Advance Single (or withdraw them completely) to deter people from using them. The 10:50 Inverness to Edinburgh is one of ScotRail’s most popular leisure services, if it isn’t the most popular.ScotRail don't need 125mph stock at all as they have no lines where it can run at that speed. 100mph is just fine.
If anything the Mk5s (if it happens) will be to replace the Mk3s, which as we all know the DfT want gone across the board - the 175s (again if it happens) will likely enable internal 168 cascades to replace most (if not all) of the 165sCould the Dft force Chiltern to have the 175?.
Ie cheaper to run than Mk5 and 68s from any possible 2024 timetable change. For extra fleet. Some rumours on here reckon Chiltern. For 175.
Various rumours in West Midlands amongst rail enthusiasts are stating possible near deal either 175 or 68 and Mk5 ex Tpex. But will it be cheaper for Dft to have Chiltern run 175 instead. Unless they are all possibly going to East and West Rail. This 175 next toc speculation and re mentioned elsewhere is quite really and is remains a mystery of who is next in line for them. Someone on here might know.
Force? No.Could the Dft force Chiltern to have the 175?.
Ie cheaper to run than Mk5 and 68s from any possible 2024 timetable change. For extra fleet. Some rumours on here reckon Chiltern. For 175.
EWR is still 196s AFAIK. I believe there was an ORR application for 196 training from Chiltern.Various rumours in West Midlands amongst rail enthusiasts are stating possible near deal either 175 or 68 and Mk5 ex Tpex. But will it be cheaper for Dft to have Chiltern run 175 instead. Unless they are all possibly going to East and West Rail. This 175 next toc speculation and re mentioned elsewhere is quite really and is remains a mystery of who is next in line for them. Someone on here might know.
If anything the Mk5s (if it happens) will be to replace the Mk3s, which as we all know the DfT want gone across the board - the 175s (again if it happens) will likely enable internal 168 cascades to replace most (if not all) of the 165s
Could the Dft force Chiltern to have the 175?.
Ie cheaper to run than Mk5 and 68s from any possible 2024 timetable change. For extra fleet. Some rumours on here reckon Chiltern. For 175.
Various rumours in West Midlands amongst rail enthusiasts are stating possible near deal either 175 or 68 and Mk5 ex Tpex. But will it be cheaper for Dft to have Chiltern run 175 instead. Unless they are all possibly going to East and West Rail. This 175 next toc speculation and re mentioned elsewhere is quite really and is remains a mystery of who is next in line for them. Someone on here might know.
Has there been an announcement regarding who has grabbed them then? If not, it's still possible that it could be GWR getting them - certainly that's what I hope will happen (running as 5-cars on Cardiff-Portsmouth please).Pity GWR didn't grab them.im.sure st Phillips Marsh could rise to the challenge of sorting out and looking after these units
They aren't using 168s, that is already known. It is 196s for Oxford MK.EWR between Oxford and Bedford and Milton Keynes will stick with 168s, as they're ideal. EWR to Cambridge will get new trains, almost certainly Civities. A high profile new line isn't going to open with 30 year old trains.
175s releasing Turbos from Chiltern back to GWR must be a possibility, though I would think the 175s questionable reliability would be risky on such a major route.
GWR still the most likely destination imho.
There’s already a plan in place to replace the GWR sets. ScotRail are still using the HSTs and they are beyond the ASLEF deadline on them. They are also on lease to 2030.Could these be used to see of a HST fleet somewhere
ScotRail see of the intercity7 fleet ( sure I read somewhere they or Aslef wanted them gone)
GWR and could still be used and based around South Wales, see of the castle sets.
No, but I have heard on here that GWR have said they won’t be getting them. I do think Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a good fit, but equally I can see why GWR wouldn’t want them (or wouldn’t be allowed them).Has there been an announcement regarding who has grabbed them then? If not, it's still possible that it could be GWR getting them - certainly that's what I hope will happen (running as 5-cars on Cardiff-Portsmouth please).
Clarence Yard has posted before that Cardiff to Portsmouth requires stabling far from the depot, and with GWR's experience of the 180s they don't trust the 175s to always work far from home.No, but I have heard on here that GWR have said they won’t be getting them. I do think Cardiff to Portsmouth would be a good fit, but equally I can see why GWR wouldn’t want them (or wouldn’t be allowed them).
Makes sense; GWR already have a fleet of 158s so it saves driver training and I'm pretty sure the TfW and GWR 158s were all part of a single fleet once upon a time, back in the days of Wessex Trains and Alphaline, so their destinations (if they're still programmed to have a mix of Wales & Borders and Great Western destinations) would probably already be compatible out of the box.Clarence Yard has posted before that Cardiff to Portsmouth requires stabling far from the depot, and with GWR's experience of the 180s they don't trust the 175s to always work far from home.
GWR are more interested in the TfW 158s.
The GWR 158s had TrainFX LCDs fitted, the TfW units are still dot matrix. I'm not sure what make the dot matrix one are, if its also TrainFX they might be compatible but I wouldn't assume so.Makes sense; GWR already have a fleet of 158s so it saves driver training and I'm pretty sure the TfW and GWR 158s were all part of a single fleet once upon a time, back in the days of Wessex Trains and Alphaline, so their destinations (if they're still programmed to have a mix of Wales & Borders and Great Western destinations) would probably already be compatible out of the box.
I’ve put in quite a number of random codes for the APIS and never found anything off the TFW network so I doubt they’re still in there (but could be wrong). Wouldn’t have thought that it would be a huge job to have them reprogrammed seems as GWR will already have all of the files made up for their current fleet.Makes sense; GWR already have a fleet of 158s so it saves driver training and I'm pretty sure the TfW and GWR 158s were all part of a single fleet once upon a time, back in the days of Wessex Trains and Alphaline, so their destinations (if they're still programmed to have a mix of Wales & Borders and Great Western destinations) would probably already be compatible out of the box.
Ahh scrap last part of mine about reprogramming then haha !The GWR 158s had TrainFX LCDs fitted, the TfW units are still dot matrix. I'm not sure what make the dot matrix one are, if its also TrainFX they might be compatible but I wouldn't assume so.
PIS changes are relatively minor.