Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Aspen90]

I believe the two end vehicles have 1 engine each as well as 1 engine each on the 2nd and 4th cars and the middle (3rd) car is the one with the transformer.

Oh apologies, I’ve got you now. Thanks.

 

[Mordac]

Two other problems with the 222s that mean I’m always surprised when people on here say there’s nothing wrong with them: the increasing number of interior door buttons that don’t work, and the awful quality of WiFi and mobile signal inside the carriages meaning large parts of the route offer no phone connection at all. As a commuter on the Midland Mainline I’ll be very glad to see the back of them.

Well they *are* a Bombardier product, even if not from Derby. *ducks*

 

[Nym]

Well they *are* a Bombardier product, even if not from Derby. *ducks*

They’re actually an EAO Product from Switzerland…

 

[QSK19]

It’s very fitting that 810 has the same numbers in it as 180.

I’ve got the feeling that the numerous problems thus far are a sign of things to come - at this rate, they’ll be riddled with problems throughout their life and will hence take the baton from the 180 in this sense.

Let’s hope I’m wrong; but, with many things in life, gut feeling turns out to be a reality.

 

[Trainman40083]

Two other problems with the 222s that mean I’m always surprised when people on here say there’s nothing wrong with them: the increasing number of interior door buttons that don’t work, and the awful quality of WiFi and mobile signal inside the carriages meaning large parts of the route offer no phone connection at all. As a commuter on the Midland Mainline I’ll be very glad to see the back of them.

It will be interesting to see if the WiFi and mobile phone signal is any better in a 810 unit. At least the 222s also have a floor stud to operate the internal doors.

 

[tram21]

It will be interesting to see if the WiFi and mobile phone signal is any better in a 810 unit.

It will be, the reason why its so bad is that you are surrounded by so much metal on a '222' that the signal cannot penetrate the train's walls. They also have outdated Wi-Fi systems. Being more modern, the Auroras will have thinner walls which data signal can get to easier. There is also a big focus on creating good Wi-Fi on these trains.

 

[Trainman40083]

It will be, the reason why its so bad is that you are surrounded by so much metal on a '222' that the signal cannot penetrate the train's walls. They also have outdated Wi-Fi systems. Being more modern, the Auroras will have thinner walls which data signal can get to easier. There is also a big focus on creating good Wi-Fi on these trains.

I would have thought the Voyager type units would have had WiFi boosters.

 

[Aspen90]

I’d heard that the 222’s are set up to cater for two people being connected per coach! The 810’s is infinitely better and has 5G connection. Think the 222’s are 3G. The seat reservation SIM card is 2G…

 

[InTheEastMids]

It will be, the reason why its so bad is that you are surrounded by so much metal on a '222' that the signal cannot penetrate the train's walls. They also have outdated Wi-Fi systems. Being more modern, the Auroras will have thinner walls which data signal can get to easier. There is also a big focus on creating good Wi-Fi on these trains.

I understand it's more to do with the windows than the bodyshells, as the mobile signal won't penetrate metal of any depth. So it wouldn't matter if the train bodyshells were tinfoil thickness, and the radio signals that your phone sends/receives go through the windows.

The problem is the very thin coating (1-10 microns) of metal that has been deposited on the window glass to reduce the greenhouse effect inside the carriage.
This coating also absorbs radio frequency quite effectively, meaning reception is very poor, and also can lead to the phone battery getting battered as it's using a lot of power to try and get a signal through.

Think this is true for all 22x, but not sure what - if any - other UK stock

 

[Failed Unit]

The age long problem, if EMR would pay for a refurbishment no-one would be complaining about the 222s. No-one will pay for a refurbishment unless they are going to get a return on investment. I guess a better situation would be if they know the 810s wouldn't be in service until 2030. That way they would not they should do something with the 222s. We saw the same with some of the 156s, they were pretty tatty, but gaffer tape and chewing gum was always going to be the solution.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Think the 222’s are 3G

All the major mobile networks will be switching off their 3G networks across this year.
Going from the onboard Wifi EMR offer now, to a guarantee of no service whatsoever, is - from some perspectives - an upgrade.

 

[tram21]

All the major mobile networks will be switching off their 3G networks across this year.
Going from the onboard Wifi EMR offer now, to a guarantee of no service whatsoever, is - from some perspectives - an upgrade.

I honestly have to agree.

 

[baz962]

It’s very fitting that 810 has the same numbers in it as 180.

I’ve got the feeling that the numerous problems thus far are a sign of things to come - at this rate, they’ll be riddled with problems throughout their life and will hence take the baton from the 180 in this sense.

Let’s hope I’m wrong; but, with many things in life, gut feeling turns out to be a reality.

To be fair I think or at least hope it will be different. Ex Overground driver and when the 710's entered service , we had all sorts of issues. A lot of these seemed to be centred around software and also had an issue with coupling as they would mechanically couple but not electrically. Many other teething problems with the screens in cab etc. To much software in new trains imho.

 

[RailWonderer]

It will be, the reason why its so bad is that you are surrounded by so much metal on a '222' that the signal cannot penetrate the train's walls. They also have outdated Wi-Fi systems. Being more modern, the Auroras will have thinner walls which data signal can get to easier. There is also a big focus on creating good Wi-Fi on these trains.

I've heard this before and it's strange because I always get signal onboard the 222s with my iPhone albeit slower than what I normally would have.

 

[tram21]

I've heard this before and it's strange because I always get signal onboard the 222s with my iPhone albeit slower than what I normally would have.

I think you might be the only one- you are very lucky!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've heard this before and it's strange because I always get signal onboard the 222s with my iPhone albeit slower than what I normally would have.

The main issue on 22x isn't the train's walls (they have huge windows, after all) but the metallic film on the windows which provides the tint to stop such huge windows making the interior get too hot in summer. The Greater Anglia FLIRTs have a special type of film with a visible grid which allegedly reduces the issue while still blocking a bit of sunlight/heat.

 

[liamf656]

It will be, the reason why its so bad is that you are surrounded by so much metal on a '222' that the signal cannot penetrate the train's walls. They also have outdated Wi-Fi systems. Being more modern, the Auroras will have thinner walls which data signal can get to easier. There is also a big focus on creating good Wi-Fi on these trains.

Unfortunately that's not true. It's in fact the protective film on the windows that blocks sunlight, heat, and inadvertently, phone signal. It's the same on the Voyagers

 

[WesternLancer]

I've heard this before and it's strange because I always get signal onboard the 222s with my iPhone albeit slower than what I normally would have.

Have you got some sort of military grade iphone? I find it unworkable on mine for wi-fi, and my phone is not old.

 

[OscarH]

I’d heard that the 222’s are set up to cater for two people being connected per coach!

I've heard this before and it's strange because I always get signal onboard the 222s with my iPhone albeit slower than what I normally would have.

You're doing well, keep ending up one of the lucky two

All the major mobile networks will be switching off their 3G networks across this year.

I was under the impression most already had, with just O2 left to go

 

[RailWonderer]

You're doing well, keep ending up one of the lucky two


I was under the impression most already had, with just O2 left to go

I'm on O2 which might have something to do with it.

 

[duffield]

I think you might be the only one- you are very lucky!

I get a reasonable signal on much of the MML, but with some blackspots. Low end Samsung phone, Tesco mobile (O2?).

Probably no good for streaming etc. but OK for realtime trains, news sites etc.

Maybe it's better in 1st because you've got fewer people (half as many per coach typically?) trying to share the same (window film degraded) signal?

 

[Discuss223]

I get a reasonable signal on much of the MML, but with some blackspots. Low end Samsung phone, Tesco mobile (O2?).

Probably no good for streaming etc. but OK for realtime trains, news sites etc.

Maybe it's better in 1st because you've got fewer people (half as many per coach typically?) trying to share the same (window film degraded) signal?

I tend to get great signal around Luton-Elstow-Ampthill etc and ofcourse in the cities such as Leicester and Derby but I've always found signal to be poor between Ambergate Junction and Clay Cross.

Stagecoach did fit mobile signal boosters I believe* to their Meridian fleet when they were at the helm of the MML services.

A spokesperson for EMR has said that "every seat will have a plug socket" so I assume this means great emphasis has been taken on internet and mobile telephone signals on the Class 810 fleet.

 

[PG]

A spokesperson for EMR has said that "every seat will have a plug socket"....

But what they didn't say was how many will still be working after a couple of years!

 

[Aspen90]

I can see Transport UK gone before the contract is up. High cancellations, shocking maintenance or lack of any in fact, so many layers of management you wouldn’t believe. Needs a shake up.

 

[Discuss223]

I can see Transport UK gone before the contract is up. High cancellations, shocking maintenance or lack of any in fact, so many layers of management you wouldn’t believe. Needs a shake up.

They're certainly not a patch on Stagecoach.

 

[tram21]

A spokesperson for EMR has said that "every seat will have a plug socket" so I assume this means great emphasis has been taken on internet and mobile telephone signals on the Class 810 fleet.

There was a good video they made highlighting what they were doing to prioritise connectivity.

 

[Trainman40083]

I can see Transport UK gone before the contract is up. High cancellations, shocking maintenance or lack of any in fact, so many layers of management you wouldn’t believe. Needs a shake up.

They just have more trains than normal needing maintenance..I'm actually surprised any are running. Always an excuse. Be interesting to see if the 810s are any better

 

[D365]

They just have more trains than normal needing maintenance..I'm actually surprised any are running.

The 222s are famously heavily utilised, especially since the loss of the 180s.

 

[Kneedown]

The 222s are famously heavily utilised, especially since the loss of the 180s.

And it's showing. In the last few weeks I've had exactly 2 Meridians with all engines running, and one 5 car came off Etches and entered sevice with 2 engines isolated. Performance is shocking currently.

 

[QSK19]

I wonder if 810 testing specifically includes running on less than 4 engines in order to simulate what is an all too common occurrence with the 222s? Maybe testing includes running on 2 engines or even 1?