Cricket

[Johnuk123]

How about letting Anderson open and let Cook bat at number 11. That move looks warranted on their current batting form...

Cook from being a top batsman has gone to being a rabbit in the headlights.

He is obviously trying to play his way into form and failing, Bell is also terrible.

 

[Whistler40145]

Bell nearly had his hand broken whilst fielding earlier, so maybe he wasn't altogether switched on.

 

[Johnuk123]

Bell nearly had his hand broken whilst fielding earlier, so maybe he wasn't altogether switched on.

He only got 16 in the 1st. innings.

 

[Whistler40145]

Do you think that Cook's lack of form is starting to effect others within the team or are they just worn out?

 

[Johnuk123]

Do you think that Cook's lack of form is starting to effect others within the team or are they just worn out?

Yes definitely, some of the newer players may well be quite good eventually but it will take time.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Yes definitely, some of the newer players may well be quite good eventually but it will take time.

Yes, I think that's the point, it will take time. Can't expect new players to suddenly become the world's best! Andy Flower's parting shot after the Australian debacle was that 'things will get worse before they get better' - he was right!

 

[Johnuk123]

England blasted away by an average Indian side. India win by 95 runs.

Where do England go now, they are well below par in every department and the next win could be a long way away.

 

[Oswyntail]

One ball before lunch, and England looked comfortable. Less than an hour later.... Not good.
However, apart from the continuing question of Cook's batting, there is not a lot to change. All the other batsmen (even bell) have contributed runs this summer; all the bowlers have done their bit. But it is obvious that the team spirit that worked so well over the last few years has gone. That must be down to the Pietersen saga: the stresses that accounted for Flower, Trott and Swann may be kept in the dressing room, but there must have been something really bad to inspire the arch-diplomat Strauss to describe JIGJAM in such terms. The only way to heal such division is with time, and I do not think changing the captain would help (especially as there are no obvious replacements).
Of course, it does not help that some commentators (particularly the two Mr Grumpies from Yorkshire) can only smirk that everything they did (or would do) was better.
Actually, what we have seen this summer is three test matches, hard fought and evenly balanced, and that is what test cricket should be. OK, the results have not gone England's way, but that does not mean England are as bad as some make out.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The bowling return of Sharma of 23-6-74-7 seemed a good return for the effort that he put in, in the England second innings.

 

[Johnuk123]

One ball before lunch, and England looked comfortable. Less than an hour later.... Not good.
However, apart from the continuing question of Cook's batting, there is not a lot to change. All the other batsmen (even bell) have contributed runs this summer; all the bowlers have done their bit. But it is obvious that the team spirit that worked so well over the last few years has gone. That must be down to the Pietersen saga: the stresses that accounted for Flower, Trott and Swann may be kept in the dressing room, but there must have been something really bad to inspire the arch-diplomat Strauss to describe JIGJAM in such terms. The only way to heal such division is with time, and I do not think changing the captain would help (especially as there are no obvious replacements).
Of course, it does not help that some commentators (particularly the two Mr Grumpies from Yorkshire) can only smirk that everything they did (or would do) was better.
Actually, what we have seen this summer is three test matches, hard fought and evenly balanced, and that is what test cricket should be. OK, the results have not gone England's way, but that does not mean England are as bad as some make out.

I think you're in a very small minority if you really think things are not as bad as they seem.

England have never got over the Australian nightmare, Pietersen can't be blamed for such poor bowling and batting.

 

[muddythefish]

One ball before lunch, and England looked comfortable. Less than an hour later.... Not good.
However, apart from the continuing question of Cook's batting, there is not a lot to change. All the other batsmen (even bell) have contributed runs this summer; all the bowlers have done their bit. But it is obvious that the team spirit that worked so well over the last few years has gone. That must be down to the Pietersen saga:

Completely off the mark in my view.

This is a leadership failure: as with all failing entities, whether they be countries, companies or sports teams, responsibility starts at the top.

England look rudderless at the moment and the captain is not leading by example either with his batting or his decisions or general demeanour on the field.

I don't see what will change in the next Test at Southampton or for the foreseeable future with the current captain at the helm. Cook has to go.

 

[Oswyntail]

... Pietersen can't be blamed for such poor bowling and batting.

As with any cricket team, there have been times of poor play - as there were with the Australian team in the winter, and the Indians and Sri Lankans. I would not say, generally, there were any more than anyone might expect of any team. OK, the bowlers over-rely on pitching short, but England bowlers have done this as far back as I can remember.
Where this team does lose out is in the domino collapse - which has, to be fair, been the speciality of England teams since the 50s. I do put this firmly down to the mephitic atmosphere created by Pietersen, wittingly or not. It destroyed Trott and Flower, drove Swann and even Strauss to an early retirement, and, IMHO, made it almost impossible to fight back in Australia. Team psychology is important, and that is what needs rebuilding

...I don't see what will change in the next Test at Southampton or for the foreseeable future with the current captain at the helm. Cook has to go.

There are pros and cons, but there is no sensible alternative.There is no Brearley-figure waiting to knit the team together, and the last thing that is needed is gung-ho. There is enough going right in the team to justify a bit more patience.

 

[ExRes]

Do you think that Cook's lack of form is starting to effect others within the team or are they just worn out?

Not sure how they can be worn out, they hardly play these days, seized up more like

 

[muddythefish]

There are pros and cons, but there is no sensible alternative.There is no Brearley-figure waiting to knit the team together, and the last thing that is needed is gung-ho. There is enough going right in the team to justify a bit more patience.

Seven defeats in 10 matches with no wins - what's going right there ?

If a man is failing in his job he loses it. Just because there are no apparent "sensible alternatives" (debatable) does not mean he should stay in post.

Nothing gung-ho about that.

Blaming Pietersen for the current malaise is nonsense.

 

[Oswyntail]

Seven defeats in 10 matches with no wins - what's going right there ?

And the team has been radically changed, with all the batsmen (except Cook) contributing significant runs, and all the bowlers having significant spells.

If a man is failing in his job he loses it. Just because there are no apparent "sensible alternatives" (debatable) does not mean he should stay in post.

And if his job is actually to help rebuild a new team, integrating them into a cohesive whole while getting rid of the legacy of the last couple of years? And would you care to suggest a sensible alternative?

Nothing gung-ho about that.

What I meant is that we do not need a gung-ho style captain, like Botham or Flintoff.

Blaming Pietersen for the current malaise is nonsense.

Not so. He was patently a rotten apple who brought many he worked with to the edge of desperation. The current team is being rebuilt after the damage he caused, but with a significant number of voices still saying he was an angel and should be recalled.

 

[muddythefish]

And the team has been radically changed, with all the batsmen (except Cook) contributing significant runs, and all the bowlers having significant spells.

And if his job is actually to help rebuild a new team, integrating them into a cohesive whole while getting rid of the legacy of the last couple of years? And would you care to suggest a sensible alternative?

What I meant is that we do not need a gung-ho style captain, like Botham or Flintoff.

Not so. He was patently a rotten apple who brought many he worked with to the edge of desperation. The current team is being rebuilt after the damage he caused, but with a significant number of voices still saying he was an angel and should be recalled.

The team has changed but is patently failing. It has scored more than 400 runs only once in the past 3 years (or thereabouts) and no team will win Test matches unless it makes big scores.

As for the bowlers they are all over the place - no more so than at Lord's where they effectively lost the match in the first session.

Cook's job is to win matches while the team is rebuilding, shows leadership on the field and score runs himself. At the moment he is doing none of these.

No one mentioned the likes of Flintoff or Botham (if only) but a captain with at least some tactical nous wouldn't go amiss.

Cook needs to step down for the sake of the tean and for his own sake to get his batting back in order. A stronger body than the ECB would have sacked him by now anyway.

 

[Whistler40145]

Put it this way, does Cook think the paying public want to come and see a team that can't win and a team that has a weak leader?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Put it this way, does Cook think the paying public want to come and see a team that can't win and a team that has a weak leader?

Team that can't win...Weak leader (with an interest in cricket)...Are we looking for the "grey man" to make a "Major" return to leadership...

 

[Whistler40145]

I'd give the job to either Matt Prior or Stuart Broad.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think that Cook will have unanimous backing for him to stay in post as captain....from the cricket federations of Australia, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, South Africa and Zimbabwe....

 

[Whistler40145]

Paul, should Cook follow in the footsteps of Michael Vaughan & drop down to number three with either Moeen Ali or Joe Root opening with Sam Robson?

 

[gswindale]

Prior's form is not exactly brilliant at present though - there are calls for him to be replaced by Butler in some quarters.

As for Broad - didn't he captain the side in a dismal T20 campaign recently?

Bell is possibly a better choice - still in reasonable nick and, batting down the order, has a bit more time to prepare for batting after concentrating on the captaincy out in the field.

For an "outside-the-box" thought, has anybody considered Trescothick for a return to home international cricket? He's in pretty good form for Somerset at the moment - I know he won't tour again, but could bringing him in with his experience for this series be what we need?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Could Root see himself as a regular opening batsman for the England team with the self-belief that is required to adapt to that particular role ?

I remember Bill Lawry as being an opening batsman who gave the impression that his motto was "none shall pass" and who brought stability to one part of the opening pair of batsmen in Test Matches for Australia.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For an "outside-the-box" thought, has anybody considered Trescothick for a return to home international cricket? He's in pretty good form for Somerset at the moment - I know he won't tour again, but could bringing him in with his experience for this series be what we need?

County cricket and Test Cricket are two totally different matters. Whilst I am pleased that Trescothick is doing sterling work for Somerset, a return to a full Test Match status is one that would be the worst possible one for him medically-wise.

 

[Whistler40145]

gswindale

I agree that Ian Bell would be a good choice.

I wouldn't even consider Marcus Trescothick, yes he's scoring runs, but you can't pick someone who won't travel overseas.

 

[muddythefish]

Like most of the batsmen, Bell is in poor form and might be worried about his place. He played a dreadful shot in the second innings. I don't see him as captain material but would back Prior for the job. The mutterings against him don't make any sense in my view.

 

[Johnuk123]

gswindale

I agree that Ian Bell would be a good choice.

I wouldn't even consider Marcus Trescothick, yes he's scoring runs, but you can't pick someone who won't travel overseas.

Trescothick is the same as Trott and no use whatsoever to England.

 

[Whistler40145]

Yes, both Trescothick & Trott have health problems, but not their own fault.

 

[Johnuk123]

Yes, both Trescothick & Trott have health problems, but not their own fault.

It matters not whose fault it is the point is both of those players buckle under pressure.

I have no idea what's wrong with either as the official explanation has been widely questioned with both of them.

 

[Whistler40145]

Stress related illness or depression, both different, but can be connected.

 

[muddythefish]

It matters not whose fault it is the point is both of those players buckle under pressure.

I have no idea what's wrong with either as the official explanation has been widely questioned with both of them.

Neither "buckled under pressure". They were both fantastic players for England. They both do however have stress-related problems, widely seen as related to depression. I'd be very careful what you say if I were you.