Cricket

[Whistler40145]

IMHO Cook as a ODI player is likened to a modern day Geoff Boycott, you can't have that defensive style of playing in limited overs cricket.

 

[muddythefish]

Ahhh.... good old Boycs, the master batsman. Loved watching him play.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I often wonder how that famous Australian opening batsman Bill Lawry would have coped with his favoured batting style if he was asked to face a total of 300+ to beat in a 50 overs International.

 

[DownSouth]

England's best batsman at the moment played quite well in the Big Bash League T20 match at Adelaide Oval on Thursday night, I hope the ECB selectors were watching with a view to the World Cup squad.

His well-measured innings of 66 probably could have done with a few more big hits as the home side had absolutely no trouble running down the target with eight overs and eight wickets in hand, but that innings would have been perfect for an ODI and the additional experience in Australian conditions playing for the Melbourne Stars will surely be a huge positive.

I often wonder how that famous Australian opening batsman Bill Lawry would have coped with his favoured batting style if he was asked to face a total of 300+ to beat in a 50 overs International.

I reckon he would be an excellent player to teleport from the past and place at the top of the order for Australia today. He'd probably be better off coming in at the first drop instead of opening the batting (i.e. after Warner and Finch took advantage of the first 10 overs) but he'd be excellent value for building the innings through the middle overs with lots of singles, and providing a platform for Smith, Bailey and Faulkner to finish it off later in the innings. Any change needed in the style of play would have been worked out - the honour of being asked to represent Australia would have demanded it.

I miss hearing Bill Lawry on the Nine Network commentary, he was never the most illuminating commentator but his irrepressible passion for the sport and his on-air rivalry with his closest friend Tony Greig was one of the distinctive sounds of summer ever since I was a kid. He's only done a couple of matches since Greig died, and I think he's now retired completely.
The same applies to Richie Benaud who is now only doing occasional appearances mostly limited to narrating canned segments (his health is going downhill) and also Kerry O'Keefe who retired from his distinctive contribution to the ABC radio coverage last season - I remember when thousands of people at the SCG were more interested in his on-air chilli eating contest with the Harsha Bhogle during a dull patch of a Test a few years ago, and of course there was the richly deserved taunting of the Barmy Army (he used one of their own songs from the series in England!) on the ABC/BBC coverage at the end of the 5-0 Ashes whitewash last summer.

The batsmen who are succeeding in ODI cricket at the moment still tend to be those with the proper batting technique that is also applicable in Test cricket and not the Twenty20 specialists. You can fake it in a Twenty20 (because getting away with it for five overs is a quarter of the innings, not a tenth) but a ODI innings is long enough that the innings needs to be built by the batting side with strong partnerships, and there's time for a counter-attack by either side if they get off to a poor start in an innings.
One of the best ODI matches I've seen live was in 2008 when the Indian bowlers had Australia on the ropes at 5/79 batting first, but Michael Clarke launched an excellent counter-attack to get us to 9/203 off the 50 overs (an excellent example of why surviving the full 50 overs is the first step to setting a decent target) which was enough to record a 50 run win when the bowlers performed. It was a match which had everything that's good about a Test - the answer to the "who's in front" question changed probably five or six times.

 

[muddythefish]

Kerry O'Keefe who retired from his distinctive contribution to the ABC radio coverage last season - I remember when thousands of people at the SCG were more interested in his on-air chilli eating contest with the Harsha Bhogle during a dull patch of a Test a few years ago, and of course there was the richly deserved taunting of the Barmy Army (he used one of their own songs from the series in England!) on the ABC/BBC coverage at the end of the 5-0 Ashes whitewash last summer.
.

Hence my observation that convict commentators are nothing more than cheerleaders for the national team - which you refuted. An English commentator would never have stooped so low, although I did detect just a hint of a smile on Botham's face after the 3-0 drubbing of the Aussies 18 months ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Three quick wickets in the early part of the session by Johnson has taken a toll on the Indian second innings. Just looked in at 0230 British time and seven of the Indian players are now out, with only a very meagre overall lead of about 60 runs.

 

[muddythefish]

Does anyone care ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does anyone care ?

Perhaps DownSouth may be a forum member who falls into that category....

 

[DownSouth]

Hence my observation that convict commentators are nothing more than cheerleaders for the national team - which you refuted. An English commentator would never have stooped so low, ...

Except they do!

Give up while you're ... oh, too late for that.


In reference to the "stand up if you're five nil up" incident, that was richly deserved retribution for the bet he lost in the away series where he had to sing (on air) the Barmy Army song of their choosing at the end of the match where England secured the series, which of course he did because he's a fair player. It added a bit of fun to the radio coverage of both series-winning matches, and although some people still believe that fun and Tests should not be mixed it was hugely popular with both the ABC and BBC audiences.

If you want biased commentary, go for Botham, Boycott or Vaughan.
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Pity to see the West Indies getting so comprehensively beaten by South Africa, it's a sign of how confident the home side is that they enforced the follow-on when very few Test captains do it these days out of the need to give their bowlers a break.

Cricket is generally better off when the Windies are doing well.
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Does anyone care ?

I thought you would be relishing the distraction from the miserable performances of the English team on their tour of Sri Lanka and the subsequent dressing room coup d'etat coming just eight weeks out from the first match of the World Cup.

26 runs to victory now.

 

[muddythefish]

Except they do!

I thought you would be relishing the distraction from the miserable performances of the English team on their tour of Sri Lanka and the subsequent dressing room coup d'etat coming just eight weeks out from the first match of the World Cup.

26 runs to victory now.

Couldn't care less about Australia or India. Would you be on here if Australia were losing ? Nah, didn't think so.

By the way, the team is called England.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Couldn't care less about Australia or India.

That, of course, is your right to say, but does sound about as xenophobic as some so-called "redtop" sports "correspondents".

There are those of us who, whilst appreciating the cut and thrust of banter made in friendly exchanges, do look on International Cricket as a sport to be enjoyed for itself, whomsoever is playing. You will be aware that I am not of Australian connections in any way whatsoever.

 

[Oswyntail]

.....
If you want biased commentary, go for Botham, Boycott or Vaughan.

All those three are interested in is proving that they were better than anyone else. They have conveniently forgotten their own career "highlights".

.....I thought you would be relishing the distraction from the miserable performances of the English team on their tour of Sri Lanka and the subsequent dressing room coup d'etat coming just eight weeks out from the first match of the World Cup...

Like many colonials, you do seem more interested in crowing about England's troubles than anything other than one-eyed puffing of your own local side.

Couldn't care less about Australia or India. Would you be on here if Australia were losing ? Nah, didn't think so.....

I certainly missed the incisive commentary on the recent matches with Pakistan.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Pity to see the West Indies getting so comprehensively beaten by South Africa, it's a sign of how confident the home side is that they enforced the follow-on when very few Test captains do it these days out of the need to give their bowlers a break. Cricket is generally better off when the Windies are doing well.

The South African decision to enforce the follow on appears justified, noting the recent West Indies propensity to suffer a collapse in any part of their innings. From their second innings base of 87-2, complete collapse of a stack of dominoes scenario then ensued which saw them all out for 131. losing by an innings and 220 runs. Steyn recorded second innings bowling analysis of 8.2-2-34-6.

 

[Whistler40145]

Well, the West Indies team of today is sadly lacking quality players e.g. no Lara style batsman or bowlers of the Ambrose or Walsh camp. It does sadden me to see them being steamrollered.

 

[Spamcan81]

IMHO Cook as a ODI player is likened to a modern day Geoff Boycott, you can't have that defensive style of playing in limited overs cricket.

Yet he scored 146 in Yorkshire's 1965 Gillette Cup final win over Surrey. IIRC it remains the highest score at Lords in a county one day final.

 

[muddythefish]

i certainly missed the incisive commentary on the recent matches with pakistan.

 

[Whistler40145]

Although Cook has lost the ODI Captaincy & his place in both the Triangular squad in Australia & the World Cup Squad, does this indicate that the ECB has ended his ODI career or just not prepared to pick him until he regains form?

 

[Busaholic]

Although Cook has lost the ODI Captaincy & his place in both the Triangular squad in Australia & the World Cup Squad, does this indicate that the ECB has ended his ODI career or just not prepared to pick him until he regains form?

Where can he regain form? The chances of reclaiming his one-day place must be zilch.

 

[DownSouth]

Interestingly, the Article of the Day on Wikipedia today is of the final Test in the 'Invincibles' tour of England.

A quick read will reveal that some things stay the same (concerns over the suitability for Test cricket of a batsman with a liking for slogging, opposition players honouring a distinguished retiring player as he walks out to bat in his last match, hostility between a seasoned captain and a young star) while some things were different back then (five tour matches between the fourth and fifth Tests, the Australian getting cheered as he walked out to bat).

The three Tests underway at the moment are at varying stages of the second day according to their time zones:

New Zealand 441 (McCullum 195 off 134 balls, Neesham 85), Sri Lanka 138 (Mathews 50, Boult 3/25, Wagner 3/60) and 0/59 following on, late in the third session.

Australia 530 (Smith 192, Harris 74, Shami 4/138) and India 0/30, seven overs after the tea break.

South Africa 2/270 (Elgar 121, du Plessis sweating on 99 not out) vs West Indies, play yet to begin on day two.

Where can he regain form? The chances of reclaiming his one-day place must be zilch.

Domestic cricket in New Zealand or South Africa? The locals may be quite amused by a discarded England player heading there instead of the more conventional approach of England picking up players who can't make the RSA/NZ national teams.

Cricket in NZ is not exactly swimming in money at the moment so a state association could well be happy take the ECB's money in return for selling Cook a place on their team if the rules of the competition allow for it.

The one day competition in Australia is already over for this season so that's not an option, and he doesn't play T20 so getting a spot in a Big Bash League team would be out of the question even if an overseas player spot became available.

Sydney A Grade or Victoria Premier Cricket could be options that would give him off-season time in the middle and have him on standby in Australia, already acclimatised and able to join the World Cup squad if a batsman gets injured. This was what the ECB did with Scott Borthwick last summer for the Ashes tour, bringing him in after Swann pulled hard on the ejector seat lever after three matches and Monty was mediocre in the fourth.
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McCullum may regret making Sri Lanka follow on - he is in a pack of five players competing to become the year's second-highest Test run scorer behind Kumar Sangakkara, with three of the others having one innings to go in either the NZ v SL or Australia v India matches.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Australia 530 (Smith 192, Harris 74, Shami 4/138) and India 0/30, seven overs after the tea break.

India 108-1 (37 0vers)
Vijay 55 not out
Pujara 25 not out
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New Zealand 441 (McCullum 195 off 134 balls)

In that score, he hit 11 x 6 and 18 x 4.

 

[Busaholic]

India 108-1 (37 0vers)
Vijay 55 not out
Pujara 25 not out
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In that score, he hit 11 x 6 and 18 x 4.

Is that a test record for sixes, or has it been superseded recently? If not allcomers, what about for NZ alone?

 

[Howardh]

McCullum - fantastic knock and I wish I'd stayed up to watch!

What odds on NZ winning the World Cup? Got to be a good bet, got a real handy team there!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is that a test record for sixes, or has it been superseded recently? If not allcomers, what about for NZ alone?

The Pakistan fast bowler, Wasim Akram, in a Test Match innings of 257 not out in 1996 against Zimbabwe, hit 12 x 6's.

 

[Busaholic]

The Pakistan fast bowler, Wasim Akram, in a Test Match innings of 257 not out in 1996 against Zimbabwe, hit 12 x 6's.

Didn't Geoffrey Boycott's granny hit six sixes in an over off zimbabwe round about that time, or was it an apochryphal story?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Didn't Geoffrey Boycott's granny hit six sixes in an over off Zimbabwe round about that time, or was it an apochryphal story?

What a wag you are.......She was always a more attacking batsman than her grandson and it is said that her drives through extra cover have never been surpassed, with Gary Sobers taking coaching lessons from her.

 

[Busaholic]

What a wag you are.......She was always a more attacking batsman than her grandson and it is said that her drives through extra cover have never been surpassed, with Gary Sobers taking coaching lessons from her.

So Boycott's granny was of the sinister persuasion - that could explain a lot about her grandson.
The finest cover drivers I ever saw in the flesh were Zaheer Abbas and Arthur Milton (the latter now sadly deceased) who continued the Glos tradition of Wally Hammond, whom I am led to believe by many was the finest in the English game. Frank Hayes was another, now sadly forgotten by many: I was privileged to see his debut test innings which, of course, produced a century at The Oval. Of left handers, I'd select Graeme Pollock (seen once by me) and Brian Lara. I regret never seeing Sobers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Frank Hayes was another, now sadly forgotten by many: I was privileged to see his debut test innings which, of course, produced a century at The Oval.

Certainly not forgotten by me and I saw him play many times for Lancashire who he was with for many years. He almost emulated Gary Sobers' feat of six sixes in an over against the slow-left arm of Malcolm Nash, but had to settle for five sixes and a four. Malcolm Nash said the memories of these two particular overs that he bowled would always stay imprinted on his memory.

 

[muddythefish]

I


Domestic cricket in New Zealand or South Africa? The locals may be quite amused by a discarded England player heading there instead of the more conventional approach of England picking up players who can't make the RSA/NZ national teams.

Cricket in NZ is not exactly swimming in money at the moment so a state association could well be happy take the ECB's money in return for selling Cook a place on their team if the rules of the competition allow for it.

Have there been any reports that Cook might play in NZ or SA ? If so provide a link because I haven't seen any such reports here.

Otherwise, I take it this is just another cheap shot at England.

For your information, we've had a number of South African -born players in the England squad but most if not all have been in this country from a young age and all have wanted to play for England rather than South Africa.

Off the top of my head I cannot think of any New Zealand-born player apart from Ben Stokes who has played for England but stand to be corrected. Stokes by the way has lived here since he was 12.

Why don't you grow up and discuss cricket properly without the silly digs at England ?
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So Boycott's granny was of the sinister persuasion - that could explain a lot about her grandson.
The finest cover drivers I ever saw in the flesh were Zaheer Abbas and Arthur Milton (the latter now sadly deceased) who continued the Glos tradition of Wally Hammond, whom I am led to believe by many was the finest in the English game. Frank Hayes was another, now sadly forgotten by many: I was privileged to see his debut test innings which, of course, produced a century at The Oval. Of left handers, I'd select Graeme Pollock (seen once by me) and Brian Lara. I regret never seeing Sobers.

Sadly Frank Hayes never lived up his early promise. He was a beautiful and gifted batsman (John Crawley, another Lancastrian, was similar), but he never trained on as they say in the horse racing world.

 

[DownSouth]

Have there been any reports that Cook might play in NZ or SA ? If so provide a link because I haven't seen any such reports here.

Not that I'm aware of, just suggesting four possible places where Cook might be able to get some time in the middle at a time of the year when there's not lots of options in England.

While Cook may well be out of the official World Cup squad, if a batsman in the squad gets injured he could well be the first cab off the rank to come in as a replacement. For that, it would be beneficial if he's getting at least some time in the middle somewhere, and in December/January the obvious options for that are in South Africa, New Zealand or the top-level club competitions in Sydney and Melbourne.

What other alternatives would you recommend for an out of form batsman?

Off the top of my head I cannot think of any New Zealand-born player apart from Ben Stokes who has played for England but stand to be corrected.

As well as Ben Stokes, numerous NZ players have played cricket in England when not required by the NZ national team at the time, including Lou Vincent and allegedly (but we all know) Chris Cairns who also progressed to fixing cricket in England.

Plenty of Australian batsmen do it too if they are not in the national team, though that trend is decreasing as the standard of the winter (dry season) competition in the tropical northern parts of Australia improves. It's not generally preferred for bowlers because lighter training is better in the off-season and the swing-happy Duke ball makes fast bowlers lazy.

It's not so common in Australia or NZ because there is more international cricket played during the southern hemisphere summer (six out of the eight credible Test teams are playing at the same time) and Aus/NZ domestic cricket has a vertical structure with quality emphasised over quantity.
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A British man was arrested at last night's Big Bash League match in Sydney for breaching his ban from the SCG. He has been ejected multiple times from cricket venues here for "courtsiding" - providing updates to bookmakers based overseas faster than the delayed broadcast.

It was reported on TV this afternoon that Scotland Yard are providing assistance to the NSW Police.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Test Match...end of day 3

India 462-8

With only two days still to play, India recovered from a position of 147-3 to 409-4 thanks to a stand between Kohli 169 (18 x 4) and Rahane 147 (21 x 4).

Harris came out with bowling credit with analysis of 25-7-69-4 but the usually dependable Johnson took only a solitary wicket at a cost of 133 runs in his 29 overs.