• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Cricket

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,323
I agree with you (apart from Woakes) KP was basically a South African who wanted everything his way or would throw his toys out of the pram.

My xi for the first World Cup match is as follows

Ali
Hales
Bell
Taylor (c)
Root
Bopara
Buttler (wk)
Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
Finn/Woakes

Depending on the condition of the pitches in Australia and New Zealand (and the atmospheric conditions) I would play Woakes instead of Ravi to have 5 specialist bowlers

Thanks, I didn't think I'd get any support for my suggestion of Taylor as captain - like Bell I think he'll grow and grow, in test cricket too if given a chance. Poor Hales is not being given a chance to prove himself in 50 over cricket, another reason why Cook should go now. Woakes is the sort of player who's going to mix some great performances with lacklustre ones, a bit like Mark Ealham. He can bat though, as he showed in that otherwise unremarkable test debut, and field. Despite being a Kent supporter, I can't get too enthused about Tredwell but I suppose he's the best bet in a bare field and at least he keeps it tight. His batting is slow and he never gets many runs. If we want wickets, Root may have to bowl more overs than may be desirable. Stokes should be sent back to county cricket, like Finn was: his chance may or may not come again.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,745
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
The final day of the Test Match is one that India will most certainly rue their lack of application in their middle order batting. They had built the groundwork and were 242-2 at one stage, based on the efforts of Kohli 141 (1x6/16x4) and Vijay 99 (2x6/10x4)'

Then Lyon, who had taken five wickets in the first innings, began to wreak havoc, despite being hit all over the ground in the earlier part of the innings and recorded second innings bowling figures of 34.1-5-152-7 as Australia won the Test Match by the narrow margin of 48 runs.
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,987
Location
Lancashire
Until this Test Match, I didn't really rate Lyon as a top class spin bowler, but he's certainly come to the party today. I've been watching the game.

It's not looking good for Michael Clarke. I'm no fan of the Aussies, but if he has to stop playing, then it will be a real shame.
 

Johnuk123

Established Member
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
2,802
As England collapse out of the 6th ODI I really think it's time we just gave up cricket altogether as we simply aren't very good.
 

DownSouth

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2011
Messages
1,545
I was at the Test today, an excellent day of play but very frustrating with Marais Erasmus giving Murali Vijay four lives before finally giving Lyon a just but very delayed reward for his hard work. DRS would have been very handy to shorten today's proceedings, but in fairness it must also be pointed out that Erasmus also gave us one that looked a little iffy (Rahane out for 0) later in the same over that Vijay got dismissed to make it 4-1 in favour of India.

It was very good to see neither team was so afraid of losing that they didn't give themselves a chance at winning, and full credit must go to both Michael Clarke for setting a credible target and Virat Kohli for leading his team in batting to win. For the sake of the sport, I hope that India stick with Kohli as captain, Wriddiman Saha as wicketkeeper (he did a very good job, far better than Dhoni would have done) and MS Dhoni coming back when fit as only a batsman, maybe in place of Rahane.

One thing that was rather odd today was the unusual attitude of the Indian supporters. They are usually as faithful as the Barmy Army (who will stick around until they've reached their beer target regardless of the team's performance) but today was the first time I ever remember the Indian supporters quitting before their team did. I guess they didn't have much faith in their tail despite a few of them having Ranji Trophy centuries on the record.

It sounds as if Michael Clarke will be out for the rest of the series, and possibly out of the World Cup as well. The Gabba should suit Shaun Marsh well, being the next-closest pitch to the unique conditions of his home ground in Perth.
 

Johnuk123

Established Member
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
2,802
Captain Cook, still adamant that he is the right man to lead the English cricket team, certainly left a lot to be desired in his application as opener with his 2-ball innings...<(

Cook has now lost 4 consecutive ODI's has he no pride can't he see he's just not a good enough ODI captain.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,323
What's the betting the 'illegal' Indian bookmakers made a packet out of the test?!
 

DownSouth

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2011
Messages
1,545
Captain Cook, still adamant that he is the right man to lead the English cricket team, certainly left a lot to be desired in his application as opener with his 2-ball innings...<(
I read that he dropped a fairly standard catch (bad) off Kumar Sangakkara (very bad) as well. Batting failures are excusable (a good ODI bowler can send down a genuine wicket ball in any over of the match) but for the captain to drop a catch is not.

England does have a hope for the last match - they didn't bowl their overs in time and Cook might be headed for the naughty corner again.
 

DownSouth

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2011
Messages
1,545
What's the betting the 'illegal' Indian bookmakers made a packet out of the test?!
I didn't see anything that looked remotely like spot fixing, if that's what you're implying. It was a well-contested match from all players.

The Sri Lanka v England series would be a better target for that, being played in Sri Lanka and all.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,901
Location
Redcar
Being in England didn't stop the Pakistani's though I suppose those that are left are probably a bit more cautious now.
 

Howardh

Established Member
Joined
17 May 2011
Messages
8,366
Ah, cricket. I remember that, used to be on television.




What happened to it?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,901
Location
Redcar
It might be coming back next year. There are positive noises about trying to at least get a highlights package showing every championship game on free to air TV but it's still in it's infancy in terms of planning. Actual live cricket I think we'll be waiting some time for however as I doubt Sky will give up their rights to that very easily.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,323
I didn't see anything that looked remotely like spot fixing, if that's what you're implying. It was a well-contested match from all players.

The Sri Lanka v England series would be a better target for that, being played in Sri Lanka and all.

No, a game with twists and turns and narrowly fought over five days will always attract a lot of betting, one involving India exponentially so. A lot of those Indians will have been betting on an India victory, particularly midway through the final day, so the bookmakers will have made a packet with odds stacked so much in their favour anyway. I'm too trustingly old-fashioned to believe much spot fixing affects test cricket, but the lesser forms of the game I'm not so sure about.

My previous comments were not meant to offend.:)
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,745
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Captain Cook, living in a world of his own (shades of the song by The Seekers) blithely speaks of still leading the team at the next World Cup in his latest media interview.

"We'll build a world of our own
That no-one else can share
All our sorrows we'll leave far behind us there
And I know you will find
There'll be peace of mind
When we live in a world of our own"


I thought by adding this, Down South would appreciate the Australian connection of the singers on this thread...:D
 
Last edited:

DownSouth

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2011
Messages
1,545
I'm too trustingly old-fashioned to believe much spot fixing affects test cricket, but the lesser forms of the game I'm not so sure about.
Like the County Championship?

In any case, the Butt-Ameer-Sami case in England a few years ago was in a Test.
My previous comments were not meant to offend.:)
Given that you're in England, where it seems the cricket community is still going through the initial shock of realising this sort of corruption actually exists, I was prepared to understand your scepticism anyway.

Cricket Australia went through the initial shock back in the 1990's, but they were lucky in that it was just a couple of embarrassing close calls (the 'John the bookie' scandal and Saleem Malik's attempted bribery of Shane Warne) rather than the sort of full-on match fixing case later seen in South Africa with Hanse Cronje. CA were smart to have heeded the wake up call back then, before the money started flowing into Indian cricket and before Twenty20 started.

It was widely suspected by certain Australian players at the time that Pakistan fixed the 1999 World Cup Final won by Australia at Lord's, but the local authorities did not seriously investigate it. One wonders if the ECB and Scotland Yard would love to take a time machine back to 1999 and see if they could help prevent the pain of the last few years.

I'm sure all the legal betting houses did pretty well off the Adelaide Test as well as the illegal ones.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Captain Cook, living in a world of his own (shades of the song by The Seekers) blithely speaks of still leading the team at the next World Cup in his latest media interview.

"We'll build a world of our own
That no-one else can share
All our sorrows we'll leave far behind us there
And I know you will find
here'll be peace of mind
When we live in a world of our own"


I thought by adding this, Down South would appreciate the Australian connection of the singers on this thread...:D
I'm a little too young to remember much of The Seekers myself, but I did buy my parents tickets for their 'reunion' tour a couple of years back :D
 
Last edited:

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,987
Location
Lancashire
Nicely worded Paul, Captain Cook is in his own little world, he has to go or he brings the team down with him.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
IMHO, Alistair Cook should be replaced by Eoin Morgan as Captain of the ODI squad, but should he be in the ODI squad?
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,323
Like the County Championship?

In any case, the Butt-Ameer-Sami case in England a few years ago was in a Test.

Given that you're in England, where it seems the cricket community is still going through the initial shock of realising this sort of corruption actually exists, I was prepared to understand your scepticism anyway.

Cricket Australia went through the initial shock back in the 1990's, but they were lucky in that it was just a couple of embarrassing close calls (the 'John the bookie' scandal and Saleem Malik's attempted bribery of Shane Warne) rather than the sort of full-on match fixing case later seen in South Africa with Hanse Cronje. CA were smart to have heeded the wake up call back then, before the money started flowing into Indian cricket and before Twenty20 started.

It was widely suspected by certain Australian players at the time that Pakistan fixed the 1999 World Cup Final won by Australia at Lord's, but the local authorities did not seriously investigate it. One wonders if the ECB and Scotland Yard would love to take a time machine back to 1999 and see if they could help prevent the pain of the last few years.

I'm sure all the legal betting houses did pretty well off the Adelaide Test as well as the illegal ones.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm a little too young to remember much of The Seekers myself, but I did buy my parents tickets for their 'reunion' tour a couple of years back :D

As I understand it, cricket has to be televised live to be of interest to the betting syndicates, and as precious little County Championship stuff falls into this category I can't see it as a problem in that regard. Different matter though about possible team collusion towards the end of a season re ultimate championship positions, given the considerable difference in prize money between first and third but whether this is 'corruption' or 'you scratch my back...' I wouldn't like to judge.

I will just say one thing about the C.C. and I'm going back to the 1980s here- a certain county team had a Pakistan test player who played for them for a number of years with some success, particularly in the limited over games, and suddenly mid-season he disappeared from the team sheet, never to be mentioned again. He wasn't reported injured and he was still in the U.K. as I saw him getting off a train at Charing Cross one day. I've always felt there was something very suspicious about his departure, but having no connections in the cricket world I had no way of following it up. He was a bit 'flash' but so were a number of others, including some complete nonentities.
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,987
Location
Lancashire
Well, I applaud Peter Moores for boldly admitting that Alistair Cook isn't guaranteed of being ODI Captain at the World Cup. I expect he'll be pushed before he resigns!
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,323
Well, I applaud Peter Moores for boldly admitting that Alistair Cook isn't guaranteed of being ODI Captain at the World Cup. I expect he'll be pushed before he resigns!

He should have been bolder before now! Too little, too late. Expect Morgan to be appointed in his place- I'm groaning already.
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,987
Location
Lancashire
I agree, England would have won more if Cook hadn't been Captain. Who else but Morgen could get the Captaincy? Do you also relieve him of the Test Captaincy?
 
Last edited:

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,323
So you keep Cook as Test Captain?

Should Cook end his ODI career?

IMO,yes. Just as Vaughan did before him, neither having fielding strong enough for one day cricket apart from batting averages and scoring rates. Vince of Hampshire should also be in the squad as another possible opener/no.3.
 

DownSouth

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2011
Messages
1,545
As I understand it, cricket has to be televised live to be of interest to the betting syndicates, and as precious little County Championship stuff falls into this category I can't see it as a problem in that regard.
I don't know whether it will be better for you to keep your head in the clouds or look into the corruption in English domestic cricket.

Let me just say this - widespread live broadcast is the only defence against illegal bookmakers, and by extension also a disincentive for match fixing or spot fixing. When matches are not broadcast live, illegal bookmakers will have stringers at the event reporting back to them (a few bookies' stringers got ejected from Wimbledon this year) so they can make a killing from offering bets which they know the punters can't win because they have more info than the punters. For example, if the first Test here was not broadcast (not just TV, also numerous radio stations and internet broadcasts including video, 'radio' and text commentary) you could have had dodgy bookies offering bets on the basis of "Michael Clarke is on 60* early on day two, odds of him getting a double century are..." while conveniently not mentioning he was battling a severe injury and that the match situation made it very unlikely.

This is the prime reason that Cricket Australia has had the Sheffield Shield broadcast on their website (for free) for the last few years, because they did it as a proactive step to keep the sport clean. The cost to them of operating their own broadcasts including cameras, production personnel and commentators is far less than the cost to the sport of further corruption scandals (e.g. sponsors bailing out, reduced attendance at matches, fewer government grants for development programs etc).

Different matter though about possible team collusion towards the end of a season re ultimate championship positions, given the considerable difference in prize money between first and third but whether this is 'corruption' or 'you scratch my back...' I wouldn't like to judge.
I would absolutely call this corruption.

The solution is simple - go fully professional like the major league sports in the USA and like Australian domestic cricket where the prize money is virtually (or even actually) non-existent - the teams in the Superbowl don't get anything more from the league than the teams which finish bottom in their divisions. County cricket is already a closed system (unlike, for example, the tiered league structure in English football) so it should be fairly simple to pay all the counties the same amount every year and leave further financial success up to the management of the county clubs to find sponsors and attract people to the ground to increase revenue from gate receipts and concession sales. If there has to be prize money involved, make it so trivially small as to not be an incentive or even just a non-financial prize of paid travel to an end of season awards dinner for the whole squad.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
IMHO, Alistair Cook should be replaced by Eoin Morgan as Captain of the ODI squad, but should he be in the ODI squad?
World Cup squads are 15 players, which for most countries would be their first-choice playing eleven, two spare bowlers, a spare wicketkeeper and a spare batsman (which could in theory be Cook).

Unless they are unquestionably indispensable as a player, former captains should be kept out of knife-fighting range if they can't be trusted to keep their fingers uncrossed when pledging allegiance to the new captain. And as we saw with Kevin Pietersen just 12 months ago, sometimes even the indispensable players can become liabilities.

Cook is not as indispensable as Pietersen was and probably still is, his batting and fielding is simply not as good as Pietersen's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
............

And on the issue of captains and former captains and vice-captains, Steve Smith will lead Australia in the remainder of the Border-Gavaskar Trophy with Brad Haddin being the vice-captain.

That CA did not appoint Brad Haddin would suggest that they now know for sure that Michael Clarke is out with a long-term, and potentially a career-ending, injury rather than a short-term injury.

It will also be interesting to see what happens with the ODI team where George Bailey has been the stand-in captain for the matches missed by Clarke this year. He's doing an excellent job, so I'd say it would be best to leave him in the role with Haddin as the deputy and Smith in the side as just a batsman.
 
Last edited:

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,987
Location
Lancashire
Another reason CA might not have appointed Haddin as Captain is they didn't want a Keeper doing the job? It's a hard job for a keeper to do both jobs.
 
Last edited:

DownSouth

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2011
Messages
1,545
Another reason CA might not have appointed Haddin as Captain is they didn't want a Keeper doing the job?
To appoint someone other than the incumbent vice-captain obviously sends a pretty strong message for anyone who knows much about the place of the captaincy in Australian cricket culture right from school and community cricket through to grade, state and national teams. For it to be Steve Smith makes that even more obvious - he's the second-youngest player in the team, a regular in the team for less than 18 months after being in and out of the side as a younger player, and he has also had only a few matches of leading his state team.

It is traditional in Australian cricket for the wicketkeeper at the time (if they are experienced) to be the vice-captain, which in Australian cricket is a unique on-field leadership role in its own right and much more than just taking the job if the captain is not around.

Wicketkeeper vice-captains have certainly been named as Australia's designated captain for multiple matches at a time in the past, including most recently Adam Gilchrist leading Australia to an away Test series win in India. Brad Haddin certainly has the ability and the experience to do it well, he is the official captain of New South Wales and more importantly he did a pretty impressive job of standing in for Clarke (without any prior planning) on the last day of the Adelaide Test - including not giving in to the temptation of going defensive in the second session when everything was going India's way.
 

Top