Cricket

[Oswyntail]

....Should Cook end his ODI career?

Though I suspect he needs a break, the following is interesting:-
Cook - ODI Average 36.45 SR 77.27
Sangakkara - ODI average 40.66 SR 77.73

Not that much difference - but you don't hear the criticisms for Sangakkara.

 

[Whistler40145]

But Sangakkara never comes across that he is indispensable, unlike Cook.

 

[DownSouth]

Though I suspect he needs a break, the following is interesting:-
Cook - ODI Average 36.45 SR 77.27
Sangakkara - ODI average 40.66 SR 77.73

Not that much difference - but you don't hear the criticisms for Sangakkara.

Maybe because Sanga is (a) a wicketkeeper who gets to be judged as an all-rounder rather than just a batsman, and (b) in hot form at the moment and (c) choosing to retire while the team still needs him. He doesn't need to "come across" as indispensable simply because he actually is!

I'd suggest that 2014 stats are more appropriate than career stats.
Cook: 491 runs, average 27.3, strike rate 71.7, 1x 50
Sangakkara: 1223 runs, average 47.0, strike rate 88.5, 4x 100, 8x 50.

Obviously those at the top of CA have lost the plot by appointing Steve Smith as Captain!

What makes you say that? There's been lots of talk around Australia for a while that he's to be the next captain, the only thing is everyone was thinking that Michael Clarke would get to retire on his own terms after another one or two victorious Ashes series.

Of the other players who were in the team for the first Test and will also be for the second, who would you suggest? Options are Warner, Rogers, Watson, Marsh, Haddin, Johnson, and Lyon. Harris is not fit and Siddle has been dropped, with Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazelwood to come in.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'd suggest that 2014 stats are more appropriate than career stats.
Cook: 491 runs, average 27.3, strike rate 71.7, 1x 50
Sangakkara: 1223 runs, average 47.0, strike rate 88.5, 4x 100, 8x 50.

I am in total agreement with you with your reasoning on this particular matter.

 

[DownSouth]

Another big win for Sri Lanka - so comfortable that the captain was able to indulge in a few party tricks and bring on Mahela Jayawardene to take the last wicket in his last home match, and his first ODI wicket in 14 years. Also the farewell match for Alistair Cook?

The second Test (at every Englishman's favourite cricket ground) has started with India winning the toss, batting first and getting a steady start to be 1/89 at lunch.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Pujara just got given out by an incorrect decision for a catch behind which came off the helmet rather than his bat, he should have asked for it to be sent upstairs ... except that India don't believe in reviewing decisions

 

[Whistler40145]

Will the mighty axe fall on Captain Cook?

 

[DownSouth]

Disastrous remainder of the day for Australia, now down to just two fit bowlers (Watson and Lyon) after Mitchell Marsh went off with a hamstring injury, the Test debutant Josh Hazlewood had what looked to be a hamstring strain near the end of the day, Mitchell Starc suffered acute heat exhaustion (and was called soft by Warnie) and Mitchell Johnson is clearly battling something.

At stumps India are 4/311, with Rahane (75*) and Sharma (26*) the not out batsmen. Australia were seven overs short, but Smith is not likely to be punished for it as the time lost will be accounted for by the extra drinks breaks and various injury interruptions.

 

[Whistler40145]

That's very surprising of Australia, is it just a case of bad luck with these injuries or the lack of blooding good quality players?

 

[muddythefish]

That's very surprising of Australia, is it just a case of bad luck with these injuries or the lack of blooding good quality players?

If Johnson forgets to take his pills, they're a pretty ordinary bunch. Most of them would be better employed lobbing meat-filled pastry-based products.

 

[Oswyntail]

I am in total agreement with you with your reasoning on this particular matter.

What I was pondering was the often quoted opinion that Cook is not a competent one-day batsman. It is generally accepted that Sangakkara is, so why not Cook? Form changes, and no one could disagree with the idea that Cook's current form is bad and he should be dropped (though the alternatives have not exactly shone).

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Will the mighty axe fall on Captain Cook?

If it does, who else? If Morgan was in stunning form then perhaps the choice would be easy, but his form is as bad as, if not worse, than Cook's. Presumably, the matter is complicated by the world cup just around the corner. I can understand that Cook might feel that the wheel of fortune is a long time in turning, but he does seem to have shown a number of frailties in his technique that is worrying...he has been worked out and doesn't appear to have been able to counter it!

 

[Whistler40145]

James Taylor or when fit, Stuart Broad or Jimmy Anderson?

 

[Busaholic]

James Taylor or when fit, Stuart Broad or Jimmy Anderson?

Anderson must concentrate on his bowling and IMO isn't good captaincy material anyway. Cook is beginning to say he won't walk, but if pushed...Time for Downton to do the pushing. Vaughan is saying we went into the last two or three World Cups on past form and experience and look where that got us. Cook, Morgan, Tredwell and, even Bopara should all walk the plank. Please don't saddle Root with the captaincy at this stage. Taylor is the man for the job with Bell as his deputy. Hales and Gurney are not looking the part at this stage either, in Hales's case probably because he's not been given a proper chance as opener. If England want a left-arm quick they should take a chance on Mills of Essex.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Anderson must concentrate on his bowling and IMO isn't good captaincy material anyway. Cook is beginning to say he won't walk, but if pushed...Time for Downton to do the pushing. Vaughan is saying we went into the last two or three World Cups on past form and experience and look where that got us. Cook, Morgan, Tredwell and, even Bopara should all walk the plank. Please don't saddle Root with the captaincy at this stage. Taylor is the man for the job with Bell as his deputy. Hales and Gurney are not looking the part at this stage either, in Hales's case probably because he's not been given a proper chance as opener. If England want a left-arm quick they should take a chance on Mills of Essex.

I don't know enough about Taylor's captaincy skills and anyway he has only recently come into the side, he's hardly cemented his place and with the two senior pros - Anderson & Broad - absent, it is difficult to visualise how they might react (mindful of KP's rant about the culture!). I have to admit that I don't follow the one day stuff as much as test cricket, but there do seem to be only a few players who are automatic choices....Anderson and Broad have enhanced their standing by not going to Sri Lanka, and add to them Root, Moeen Ali and Buttler, and I would also add Bopara, who has been messed about recently. I think the other places are up for grabs!

 

[Whistler40145]

Will Trott be reappearing or is his time over?

Bopara should be in the squad.

 

[DownSouth]

That's very surprising of Australia, is it just a case of bad luck with these injuries or the lack of blooding good quality players?

It was very hot today, the Indian batsmen were also suffering. They got through only by holding up the play with lots of unscheduled drinks breaks and wearing wet towels around their necks which needed adjustment at the end of each over, and towards the end of his innings Murali Vijay was looking very wobbly. It was very much a good toss for them to win, but the conditions look like favouring the fielding side tomorrow (lots of weather interruptions) before swinging back to the batting side on Friday when you'd expect India to spend the whole day in the field.

Marsh just looked like a classic fast bowler's injury. He'll be right to bat, but no more bowling for the rest of the match.

Hazlewood's issue is now being reported as just cramps, which is probably a manifestation of heat exhaustion like Starc had earlier in the day. Experience and fitness could be an issue there, but it's hard to say for sure.

Johnson also doesn't seem to have an injury, maybe it just looked to me like he was struggling in his last spell simply because the Indians were playing him a lot more competently than the English did last summer?

I can't see Ryan Harris having any of these heat exhaustion issues if he was available to play (he sustained a quad strain in the first Test, probably related to his accelerated return from major surgery) as his fitness is never in question, and neither would Peter Siddle who was omitted by the selectors for this match for being the most harmless of the four bowlers in the first Test - but not out of a fitness issue.

Maybe the selectors should have picked Chadd Sayers and left Starc to become an ODI specialist. South Australian bowlers are used to long hours of hard work in the sun when they play at batsman-friendly Adelaide Oval all the time - no coincidence that Lyon and Harris both spent years playing for the Redbacks during the formative years of their careers and that they both don't have any issues with fitness and endurance.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

It was very hot today, the Indian batsmen were also suffering. They got through only by holding up the play with lots of unscheduled drinks breaks and wearing wet towels around their necks which needed adjustment at the end of each over, and towards the end of his innings Murali Vijay was looking very wobbly. It was very much a good toss for them to win, but the conditions look like favouring the fielding side tomorrow (lots of weather interruptions) before swinging back to the batting side on Friday when you'd expect India to spend the whole day in the field.

Marsh just looked like a classic fast bowler's injury. He'll be right to bat, but no more bowling for the rest of the match.

Hazlewood's issue is now being reported as just cramps, which is probably a manifestation of heat exhaustion like Starc had earlier in the day. Experience and fitness could be an issue there, but it's hard to say for sure.

Johnson also doesn't seem to have an injury, maybe it just looked to me like he was struggling in his last spell simply because the Indians were playing him a lot more competently than the English did last summer?

I can't see Ryan Harris having any of these heat exhaustion issues if he was available to play (he sustained a quad strain in the first Test, probably related to his accelerated return from major surgery) as his fitness is never in question, and neither would Peter Siddle who was omitted by the selectors for this match for being the most harmless of the four bowlers in the first Test - but not out of a fitness issue.

Maybe the selectors should have picked Chadd Sayers and left Starc to become an ODI specialist. South Australian bowlers are used to long hours of hard work in the sun when they play at batsman-friendly Adelaide Oval all the time - no coincidence that Lyon and Harris both spent years playing for the Redbacks during the formative years of their careers and that they both don't have any issues with fitness and endurance.

I quite liked this extract from Cricinfo (you've probably seen it):

'Eight bowlers used, seven overs lost, six Indian batsmen, five more to come, four sub fielders, three injured bowlers, two wobbly Marshes ... all that was missing from Steven Smith's first day as Test captain was a partridge in a pear tree. '

 

[DarloRich]

Would it not be helpful for us to just give up one day cricket? We are clearly rubbish at it!

 

[Whistler40145]

Definitely no, we should get the right team.

If players are good at County level playing limited overs Cricket, then why are they not when they play for England?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Indian recovery from 137-3 to the end of play score of 311-4 gives them a solid base to build their first innings upon on the second day.

 

[Oswyntail]

.....
If players are good at County level playing limited overs Cricket, then why are they not when they play for England?

That is the question, and is applicable to all types of Cricket, and, indeed, all sports. I suspect there are two main, connected reasons. Firstly the English way is to discard "failures" rather than promote "successes". If a player is dropped, it is generally because he has had a bad run, and so the pressure is on his replacement to improve on things from the start; if he doesn't, likely enough he will be dropped himself as a failure. The one consistently worthwhile aspect of Australian selection has been that players, when selected, are presented as being better than their predecessor; they start with a positive, and don't feel they have to succeed straight away to keep their place.
The other factor is that the English are addicted to "Tall Poppy Syndrome", preferring to cut players down to size than to praise. This is so throughout the press (where destroying a player or manager's career is seen as a triumph) but particularly among ex-players. Michael Vaughan is a truly vicious poacher-turned-gamekeeper, who seems to forget the troubles he had as an England player. This is much less among foreign journalists.

 

[Whistler40145]

I agree.

Also, England have always treated Limited Overs cricket as less important than Test cricket.

 

[Busaholic]

I agree.

Also, England have always treated Limited Overs cricket as less important than Test cricket.

That's because it is.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

That's because it is.

Very true!

England have been very consistent with their selection policy recently, (thankfully we do not have the riduculous system that selected over 40 different players in I think 1989) but perhaps they have erred too much on the side of consistency, and maybe this has led to the kind of culture within the side that KP complained about. There has to be a balance ( and while I'm at it, Ballance's credentials have also been enhanced by not being in Sri Lanka!) How long can the selectors keep going with Cook in the hope that he scores some runs. It just places even more pressure on him...and if he's still in bad nick when the Australians come over next summer...well, they won't let him forget it!

 

[muddythefish]

That is the question, and is applicable to all types of Cricket, and, indeed, all sports. I suspect there are two main, connected reasons. Firstly the English way is to discard "failures" rather than promote "successes". If a player is dropped, it is generally because he has had a bad run, and so the pressure is on his replacement to improve on things from the start; if he doesn't, likely enough he will be dropped himself as a failure. The one consistently worthwhile aspect of Australian selection has been that players, when selected, are presented as being better than their predecessor; they start with a positive, and don't feel they have to succeed straight away to keep their place.
The other factor is that the English are addicted to "Tall Poppy Syndrome", preferring to cut players down to size than to praise. This is so throughout the press (where destroying a player or manager's career is seen as a triumph) but particularly among ex-players. Michael Vaughan is a truly vicious poacher-turned-gamekeeper, who seems to forget the troubles he had as an England player. This is much less among foreign journalists.

1. Explain: doesn't make sense.

2. Vaughan takes alot of sense and says it like it is. I'd rather have a critical, competitive and independent rather than countries like Australia where the media (written and broadcast) are more like supporters with typewriters (in old money).

 

[DownSouth]

You've obviously not seen much of the Australian media if you think they are cheerleaders, we do tall poppy syndrome better than anyone. Just yesterday Shane Warne had no hesitation in calling Mitchell Starc soft and not fit for Test cricket.

Australia managed to regroup after yesterday and run India down rapidly this morning, 6/97 in 26 overs saw them taking an early lunch before coming out and making a strong start to be 1/81 after 16 overs.

Dhoni has seen the aggressive 7-2 fields used by Michael Clarke in the Ashes last year and, surprisingly for an ODI specialist seen as an too defensive for Test captaincy, upped the ante with a 8-1 field at the moment.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just looked in at 0320 British time and Australia have steadied the boat with an unbroken stand of 140 between Smith and Johnson to move on from 247-6 to 387-6.

 

[DownSouth]

All out for 505 in the end, a 97 run lead on the first innings with exactly the same number of overs used by each team. Bowling centuries to all four of India's specialist bowlers.

Both of the bowling Mitchells (Johnson and Starc) scored fifties with the bat, while the all-rounder Mitchell (Marsh) did not.

At stumps India are 1/71 in their second dig, 26 runs behind Australia on the overall score.

 

[Whistler40145]

Well...The ECB have sacked Alistair Cook from the ODI Captaincy & replaced him with Eoin Morgan, but no mention of whether he'll continue to play in the ODI squad.

 

[muddythefish]

At last, some decisive if belated action from the selectors. I'm a big fan of Cook as a Test player but he needed to be dropped from the one-day side. Morgan's a good man - I wish him well.