Kite159
Veteran Member
Don't give the DfT any ideas...I suppose it would create excessive conflicting moves crossing all lines at Crewe so wouldn't be popular with NR.
Milford Haven to Liverpool & Nottingham to Manchester via Crewe
Don't give the DfT any ideas...I suppose it would create excessive conflicting moves crossing all lines at Crewe so wouldn't be popular with NR.
Whilst this does increase Crewe-Stafford links (and connections to CrossCountry services), it doesn't improve Crewe's long haul connectivity.
Surely - a logical improvement would be for the 2nd London - Liverpool service to call at Crewe (since the 2nd LNWR Birmingham - Liverpool isn't coming back in a hurry) with a CrossCountry move from Macclesfield/Stoke to Wilmslow/Crewe, to allow for connections between Liverpool and the South of England, which is not possible
As per Post #94, it appears Crewe is to lose its non-stop London services:
1ph London - Scotland via Birmingham (additional call at Stafford)
1ph London - Chester (calling at Stafford)
1ph London - Manchester (calling at Stafford)
1ph London - Liverpool (calling at Milton Keynes Central)
Whilst this does increase Crewe-Stafford links (and connections to CrossCountry services), it doesn't improve Crewe's long haul connectivity.
Surely - a logical improvement would be for the 2nd London - Liverpool service to call at Crewe (since the 2nd LNWR Birmingham - Liverpool isn't coming back in a hurry) with a CrossCountry move from Macclesfield/Stoke to Wilmslow/Crewe, to allow for connections between Liverpool and the South of England, which is not possible now the Stafford calls are removed from the Liverpool services. This would also increase the Crewe-Birmingham service levels back to pre-COVID since the aforementioned 2nd LNWR Birmingham - Liverpool isn't coming back soon.
I agree - but I equally don't think Stafford needs the 3tph to London (one via Brum admittedly). Perhaps another different call could be accommodated instead. Ideally a Watford, if pathable.
Big catchment area for Stafford. 78 minutes non-stop. 105-110 from Wolves to Euston, it will take some of that market.I agree - but I equally don't think Stafford needs the 3tph to London (one via Brum admittedly). Perhaps another different call could be accommodated instead. Ideally a Watford, if pathable.
Plus changing at Stafford will become the fastest route for Wolves-London even more of the time (though it depends on connections at Stafford). Though as you say, most people will just railhead to Stafford instead.Big catchment area for Stafford. 78 minutes non-stop. 105-110 from Wolves to Euston, it will take some of that market.
Will be 4tph if you include the LNWR, although that also gets overtaken by the non stop Avanti trains.I agree - but I equally don't think Stafford needs the 3tph to London (one via Brum admittedly). Perhaps another different call could be accommodated instead. Ideally a Watford, if pathable.
The proposed changes to services between BHM and SGB as a whole are a joke. Like it or not, Smethwick Galton Bridge is a very useful interchange station. Why does Sandwell and Dudley require 2 services per hour to International, but SGB doesn’t get at least one.Regarding the West Midlands changes, are the local services at New Street changing as part of the preparation for HS2, or will there be a further change again in a few years?
Smethwick Galton Bridge no longer has direct trains to International, although as it was only 1tph (Wales), I cannot see many passengers interchanging from Kidderminster/Stourbridge for the airport/NEC as they would drive (or taxi) via the M5 or M42 and M6.
Also, Kidderminster and Stourbridge to Shrewsbury and mid Wales passengers would most likely drive along the A449 to Wolverhampton to pick up a train there as it is the shortest route and does not involve changing trains.
Given that it is now more of a stopping London - Birmingham than an intercity express service, does anyone know if the slow Avanti IET from Euston to Birmingham will retain it’s pick up/set down restriction at Watford Junction?
They will come back with HS2...As per Post #94, it appears Crewe is to lose its non-stop London services:
Is skipping Stratford worth it considering all the connections?Living in Norwich I would love to see a revamp of London trains. At the moment it's Diss Stowm Ipswich Col Chelms Stratford and Liv St. Would love to see hourly Ips Col and Liv St and hourly previously said stns so we get a fast and a slow every hour. But hey what do I know.
Tel
That's almost what it was when it went half hourly in the early 2000s under Anglia Railways. Trains left Norwich at xx:00 & xx:40. Cant see Diss losing its twice hourly service now. You missed out Manningtree.Living in Norwich I would love to see a revamp of London trains. At the moment it's Diss Stowm Ipswich Col Chelms Stratford and Liv St. Would love to see hourly Ips Col and Liv St and hourly previously said stns so we get a fast and a slow every hour. But hey what do I know.
Tel
There is probably 1tph which should be the classic Colchester - Ipswich - Diss - Norwich. And then another with Stowmarket and/or Manningtree - maybe one into each pattern. Stratford for one.That's almost what it was when it went half hourly in the early 2000s under Anglia Railways. Trains left Norwich at xx:00 & xx:40. Cant see Diss losing its twice hourly service now. You missed out Manningtree.
You missed the fact that practically ALL Norwich InterCity services seem to be obliged to call at Manningtree, which I have never really understood. Even pre-Covid, any time I have been on a train calling at Manningtree, there's never been more than a handful of people getting on or off there!Living in Norwich I would love to see a revamp of London trains. At the moment it's Diss Stowm Ipswich Col Chelms Stratford and Liv St. Would love to see hourly Ips Col and Liv St and hourly previously said stns so we get a fast and a slow every hour. But hey what do I know.
Tel
I can assure you that many services have very healthy loadings at Manningtree especially those that connect with the branch.You missed the fact that practically ALL Norwich InterCity services seem to be obliged to call at Manningtree, which I have never really understood. Even pre-Covid, any time I have been on a train calling at Manningtree, there's never been more than a handful of people getting on or off there!
I can assure you that many services have very healthy loadings at Manningtree especially those that connect with the branch.
The proposed changes to services between BHM and SGB as a whole are a joke. Like it or not, Smethwick Galton Bridge is a very useful interchange station. Why does Sandwell and Dudley require 2 services per hour to International, but SGB doesn’t get at least one.
They’ve sneakily also proposed removing the Liverpool - Birmingham calls from Smethwick Galton Bridge, and replaced it with a paltry Birmingham to Shrewsbury all shacks service.
So basically all mid/north wales direct connections will no longer be available, and to get to anywhere past WVH on that side of the WCML will require a change. I can’t see any of this going down well, and I would be willing to go to consultations and even protest to stop this from happening. It’s nothing short of a farce
My limited experience of the line agrees with you. I mostly travel off-peak in that area when I visit, which is not often enough, so I've seen a number of quiet trains when calling at Manningtree. The first one that came to mind was a pair of 720s on the 0926 I think from Ipswich to London last year, and I was near the back so the front part might have been busy. I've also noted a lot of busy trains. The first busy one that came to mind was a pair of 321s in the evening of the same day, pretty busy until Manningtree when it emptied out considerably. I recall waiting for said 321s at Colchester (on my way back from Clacton to Ipswich) and the preceding 745 was absolutely heaving. I was with my cycle, and no reservation on said 745, so it wasn't an option anyway. It was one I wanted as well, so the temptation had been very real to get on, until I saw the passenger numbers!
The thing with Manningtree is maintaining branch connections in both directions & hence why more trains call. It’s often forgotten that there is a healthy passenger flow between Harwich & Ipswich. It’s not all centred on Colchester/London traffic. In fact during the 90s the hourly emu on the branch continued to Ipswich reversing in platform 2.
There’s been regular speculation about separating out the XC Manchester - Birmingham trains, (usually into an EMU service), in these forums for years, but I don’t recall any similar official proposals by DfT or the TOC. (That’s thinking of the pre CoVid situation of course.)When is CrossCountry's network review of the network - wasn't their speculation for CrossCountry reviewing their Manchester - Birmingham frequencies?
The thing with Manningtree is maintaining branch connections in both directions & hence why more trains call. It’s often forgotten that there is a healthy passenger flow between Harwich & Ipswich. It’s not all centred on Colchester/London traffic. In fact during the 90s the hourly emu on the branch continued to Ipswich reversing in platform 2.
Yes it’s very close to Constables famous area for painting & used as a railhead for quite a large area.I forgot to include it in my previous post, but isn't there a fairly decent size bit of railheading into Manningtree? I completely forget the name of the rather amazing and beautiful sounding area a little to the west of Manningtree, I want to say it's something-Valley, I recall it being somewhere ideal for tourism? I'd imagine there and plenty of other places use Manningtree as a local station too?
I just looked on Maps, Dedham Vale is what I was thinking of. Looks gorgeous, and definitely an area where I'd imagine a lot of people drive to/from Manningtree, increasing demand and requiring 2 ICs an hour.