Different Driver Depot, Route and Traction cards

[craigybagel]

Both Salisbury and Yeovil Junction Drivers sign Salisbury to Westbury (and Westbury to Yeovil Junction via Frome and Yeovil Pen Mill).

Cheers, have fixed it. Good spot Gloster

 

[tiptoptaff]

Cardiff GWR - offically linked from May but open as a training depot at the moment.

Traction - 80x, 255 (SFHST) 158 and possbily 166? (although I cant remember what excatly the document said, most of the transfer-ins sign turbos already and they're used interchangably with 158s by control, so one assumes they'll keep them)

Routes:
Cardiff-Paddington via Hullavington
Cardiff-Swansea
Cardiff-Bridgend via VoG
Newport-Cheltenham via Lydney
Gloucester-Swindon via Kemble
Bristol Parkway-Gloucester
Bristol Temple Meads-Taunton
Bristol Temple Meads-Swindon via Box

Essentially they sign the same routes as Swansea, but do Taunton instead of Camarthen. May be some slight variations in diversionary routes west of Cardiff. For example, not sure Cardiff will sign the Ogmore Vale Extension, but they will do Leckwith Loop

 

[irish_rail]

Cardiff GWR - offically linked from May but open as a training depot at the moment.

Traction - 80x, 255 (SFHST) 158 and possbily 166? (although I cant remember what excatly the document said, most of the transfer-ins sign turbos already and they're used interchangably with 158s by control, so one assumes they'll keep them)

Routes:
Cardiff-Paddington via Hullavington
Cardiff-Swansea
Cardiff-Bridgend via VoG
Newport-Cheltenham via Lydney
Gloucester-Swindon via Kemble
Bristol Parkway-Gloucester
Bristol Temple Meads-Taunton
Bristol Temple Meads-Swindon via Box

Essentially they sign the same routes as Swansea, but do Taunton instead of Camarthen. May be some slight variations in diversionary routes west of Cardiff. For example, not sure Cardiff will sign the Ogmore Vale Extension, but they will do Leckwith Loop

So Cardiff sign Bristol to Taunton, yet Plymouth (who drive the b and h from Plymouth to London) don't. Makes sense lol.
Good looking depot by looks of it sure it was oversubscribed internally.

 

[tiptoptaff]

So Cardiff sign Bristol to Taunton, yet Plymouth (who drive the b and h from Plymouth to London) don't. Makes sense lol.
Good looking depot by looks of it sure it was oversubscribed internally.

Yep but that's becuase a percentage of their work will be siphoned from Bristol TM. So Bristol will lose a handful of it's Taunton jobs to Cardiff, rather than owt else.

Quite the opposite, 10short for May's increase allegedly!

But yes, sort of a Swansea+ if you will. Lovely deopt, on GWR Ts+Cs too

 

[craigybagel]

Yep but that's becuase a percentage of their work will be siphoned from Bristol TM. So Bristol will lose a handful of it's Taunton jobs to Cardiff, rather than owt else.

Quite the opposite, 10short for May's increase allegedly!

But yes, sort of a Swansea+ if you will. Lovely deopt, on GWR Ts+Cs too

Did they advertise externally for qualifieds? There's plenty of drivers at other TOCs and FOCs in that area after all.

Also thanks for the depot info, I'll get that added in.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Did they advertise externally for qualifieds? There's plenty of drivers at other TOCs and FOCs in that area after all.

Also thanks for the depot info, I'll get that added in.

Not yet, as it's still exclusively under PTR arrangements only

AND (edit)

I believe there are a few people waiting in talent pools for the Bristol depots and Gloucester for whom Cardiff would be much more convenient, should the company go that way. Which is what it did with Bristol Parkway

 

[Horizon22]

So Cardiff sign Bristol to Taunton, yet Plymouth (who drive the b and h from Plymouth to London) don't. Makes sense lol.
Good looking depot by looks of it sure it was oversubscribed internally.

Although Exeter and Bristol do should there be a need for a diversion. But Plymouth learning that section could well help instead of swapping crew.

 

[irish_rail]

Although Exeter and Bristol do should there be a need for a diversion. But Plymouth learning that section could well help instead of swapping crew.

Indeed Plymouth would be very keen to relearn that section, but can't see it happening..
So frustrating having to inform the TM that we aren't going anywhere as driver doesn't sign the unplanned diversion! And it's happened on numerous occasions.

 

[Watershed]

There do seem to be a remarkable number of GWR depots in the area - Swindon, Gloucester, Worcester, Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol TM, Bristol Parkway, Westbury.

I can't imagine the likes of Swindon, Worcester or Parkway having very large complements?

 

[Horizon22]

There do seem to be a remarkable number of GWR depots in the area - Swindon, Gloucester, Worcester, Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol TM, Bristol Parkway, Westbury.

I can't imagine the likes of Swindon, Worcester or Parkway having very large complements?

Swindon is very much a "Reading satellite" and Bristol Parkway has something of the same relationship to Bristol but still a 30+ complement. Worcester isn't huge but is on a dedicated line so it useful in that regard.

 

[iphone76]

Quick update from MTR.

From May 22, Old Oak Common, Abbey Wood and Plumstead depots will be all routes (Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Heathrow and Reading), Gidea Park and Shenfield depots will be Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Heathrow, Ilford depot will be Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Old Oak Common depot, and Maidenhead depot will be Abbey Wood to Heathrow/ Reading.

By December 2023 all drivers will sign all routes.

Not sure what is happening re traction, but I would imagine Ilford, Gidea Park and Shenfield will retain 315 competency - but they may be gone by then. ( I haven't driven one now for months).

 

[SNDave]

Southern drivers at Victoria no longer sign the following routes:

- Crystal Palace-Beckenham Junction​

- London Victoria-Tulse Hill via Brixton and Herne Hill​

 

[Horizon22]

Quick update from MTR.

From May 22, Old Oak Common, Abbey Wood and Plumstead depots will be all routes (Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Heathrow and Reading), Gidea Park and Shenfield depots will be Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Heathrow, Ilford depot will be Shenfield/Abbey Wood to Old Oak Common depot, and Maidenhead depot will be Abbey Wood to Heathrow/ Reading.

By December 2023 all drivers will sign all routes.

Not sure what is happening re traction, but I would imagine Ilford, Gidea Park and Shenfield will retain 315 competency - but they may be gone by then. ( I haven't driven one now for months).

We can add that a bit later in May, but remind us then!

Southern drivers at Victoria no longer sign the following routes:

- Crystal Palace-Beckenham Junction​

- London Victoria-Tulse Hill via Brixton and Herne Hill​

Thanks

 

[DaveTM]

Question number 1: Do we know anything yet about when HS2 operations begin (route proving and learning etc)? Where will the depots be and what will they sign? How many drivers will be required? Will they all be in one link with common route/traction knowledge?

And question number 2: In the top post some depots have link dependent route or traction knowledge. Could we in some way increase the information for each depot to say whether there is any progression between links or not? For instance, where routes or traction are marked as "blue link only" or "link dependent", what does this mean? If a driver enters the "green" link, will he/she one day be promoted to the "blue" link, or are they stuck forever in "green" link?

For example, in my own depot of Barnham, progression is on seniority. There are 4 main links, links 1, 2, 3 and 4. When someone retires out of link 1 a link 2 driver moves up. Now there is a gap in link 2 so a driver from link 3 moves up to link 2 and therefore another from link 4 to link 3. An exception to this is Driver Instructors who form their own special link (link 7), and who learn every traction and every route of all the other links so that they can be useful to any other driver. This means our own entry should look a bit more like this:

Link progression on seniority: 4->3->2->1. Driver instructors in separate link 7 covering all content of all other links. (Note new entry drivers to link 4 do not initially sign all link 4 routes)

Link 4: 313, 377
Portsmouth->Brighton including Littlehampton branch
Bognor->Three Bridges
Hove and Brighton to Gatwick (after a few months)

Link 3: 313, 377
As link 4, plus...
Gatwick->London Victoria via both Redhill and Quarry line

Link 2: 313, 377, adds 387
As link 3, plus..
East Croydon->London Bridge

Link 1: 313, 377, loses 387!
As link 2 except:
loses East Croydon->London Bridge!
adds Havant->Southampton (via Netley and via Eastleigh)

 

[craigybagel]

Question number 1: Do we know anything yet about when HS2 operations begin (route proving and learning etc)? Where will the depots be and what will they sign? How many drivers will be required? Will they all be in one link with common route/traction knowledge?

Very good question I'd love to know the answer to myself - but given how far away it from now, and all the changes that have taken place at Avanti since they were originally awarded the franchise covering the start of HS2, I'd be amazed if anyone could give a definite answer.

And question number 2: In the top post some depots have link dependent route or traction knowledge. Could we in some way increase the information for each depot to say whether there is any progression between links or not? For instance, where routes or traction are marked as "blue link only" or "link dependent", what does this mean? If a driver enters the "green" link, will he/she one day be promoted to the "blue" link, or are they stuck forever in "green" link?

For example, in my own depot of Barnham, progression is on seniority. There are 4 main links, links 1, 2, 3 and 4. When someone retires out of link 1 a link 2 driver moves up. Now there is a gap in link 2 so a driver from link 3 moves up to link 2 and therefore another from link 4 to link 3. An exception to this is Driver Instructors who form their own special link (link 7), and who learn every traction and every route of all the other links so that they can be useful to any other driver. This means our own entry should look a bit more like this:

Link progression on seniority: 4->3->2->1. Driver instructors in separate link 7 covering all content of all other links. (Note new entry drivers to link 4 do not initially sign all link 4 routes)

Link 4: 313, 377
Portsmouth->Brighton including Littlehampton branch
Bognor->Three Bridges
Hove and Brighton to Gatwick (after a few months)

Link 3: 313, 377
As link 4, plus...
Gatwick->London Victoria via both Redhill and Quarry line

Link 2: 313, 377, adds 387
As link 3, plus..
East Croydon->London Bridge

Link 1: 313, 377, loses 387!
As link 2 except:
loses East Croydon->London Bridge!
adds Havant->Southampton (via Netley and via Eastleigh)

I would love to have all that information, but from what I remember most of the PMs I've had (and the public comments on this thread) don't go into that detail.

I'm certainly happy to give it a go at some point
though and see how far we can go. I'll have a look at the messages again soon and see what I can do - I do agree it would definitely be beneficial.

 

[Horizon22]

Question number 1: Do we know anything yet about when HS2 operations begin (route proving and learning etc)? Where will the depots be and what will they sign? How many drivers will be required? Will they all be in one link with common route/traction knowledge?

I believe they will have one at Washwood Heath (Birmingham), and possibly a London based one. Also Annandale potentially after Phase 2? Given the relative speed, I imagine they'll be quite geographically spread out. For phase 1, it may well just be Washwood Heath, but that's very general speculation. If we want to discuss this more though, might be worth a new thread in Speculative Discussion

The depot will include a 40,000 m2 Rolling Stock Maintenance Building, Carriage Wash, Automatic Vehicle Inspection Building and 14 sidings where trains can be stored overnight.

Also on the same site will be the Network Integrated Control Centre, the centre of the network’s state-of-the-art signalling and control systems as well as office buildings for cleaners and drivers.

 

[Watershed]

I believe they will have one at Washwood Heath (Birmingham), and possibly a London based one. Also Annandale potentially after Phase 2? Given the relative speed, I imagine they'll be quite geographically spread out. For phase 1, it may well just be Washwood Heath, but that's very general speculation. If we want to discuss this more though, might be worth a new thread in Speculative Discussion

Whilst the speeds en-route will be very quick, they will still want to have crew based anywhere that units are stabled. After all, taxis won't be getting any quicker!

Perhaps I've just not kept up, but I wasn't aware there were any London-based stabling facilities? So is it just going to be units sitting in Euston/Old Oak Common platforms?

 

[MattyJames]

Liverpool Lime Street
Traction:
150,156,195,319,323,331,769 (link specific)
Routes:
Lime Street - Manchester Airport/Victoria via Chat Moss/CLC (including via Golborne Junction to Wigan)
Lime Street - Preston (including via Ince Moss)
Lime Street - Crewe via Runcorn
Manchester Victoria - Stalybridge
Earlestown - Chester
Warrington BQ - Wigan NW
Helsby - Ellesmere Port (link specific)
Preston - Blackpool North (link specific)

Surely the Liverpool drivers sign Crewe - Manchester as well?
5K19 Runs ECS from Allerton - Crewe then forms 2F19 to Piccadilly, with no Northern crew based in Crewe would they get a Manchester driver in a taxi to Crewe??

 

[Watershed]

Surely the Liverpool drivers sign Crewe - Manchester as well?
5K19 Runs ECS from Allerton - Crewe then forms 2F19 to Piccadilly, with no Northern crew based in Crewe would they get a Manchester driver in a taxi to Crewe??

No, the ECS is a Liverpool job, they take it down to Crewe then pass back to Liverpool on an LNR service. The unit is taken up to Manchester by a Picc crew, can't remember the exact passride off the top of my head but I know there are at least 5 or so Northern crew booked on the 05:05 Avanti Picc-London service!

 

[MattyJames]

No, the ECS is a Liverpool job, they take it down to Crewe then pass back to Liverpool on an LNR service. The unit is taken up to Manchester by a Picc crew, can't remember the exact passride off the top of my head but I know there are at least 5 or so Northern crew booked on the 05:05 Avanti Picc-London service!

Ah yes that makes sense now, thanks for that

 

[387star]

From May 14th Fratton GWR drivers will only sign Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central including Eastleigh diverts and Fratton depot. That will be all.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

From May 14th Fratton GWR drivers will only sign Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central including Eastleigh diverts and Fratton depot. That will be all.

Fratton will also continue to sign Havant as a contingency for Portsmouth as agreed with Network Rail as an alternate to get rid of the service of the train gets to Cosham and Portcreek is closed.

The only routes Fratton GWR are loosing is Havant to Brighton.

 

[craigybagel]

Fratton will also continue to sign Havant as a contingency for Portsmouth as agreed with Network Rail as an alternate to get rid of the service of the train gets to Cosham and Portcreek is closed.

The only routes Fratton GWR are loosing is Havant to Brighton.

Do they still sign Bristol Parkway?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Do they still sign Bristol Parkway?

Yes

 

[JJ4]

Apologies in advance for the really basic question but I am having trouble understanding what constitutes a route. For example, I have been looking at WMR and can see that Shrewsbury seemingly runs to Coventry on the network map but this isn't listed on WMT's routes on the first page of this thread? Same with Hereford to New Street? I feel I am just misinterpreting the parameters slightly. Thanks in advance.

 

[Watershed]

Apologies in advance for the really basic question but I am having trouble understanding what constitutes a route. For example, I have been looking at WMR and can see that Shrewsbury seemingly runs to Coventry on the network map but this isn't listed on WMT's routes on the first page of this thread? Same with Hereford to New Street? I feel I am just misinterpreting the parameters slightly. Thanks in advance.

Such maps can be misleading. The only service from Shrewsbury towards Birmingham that extends beyond Birmingham New Street/International is the daily Avanti service to London. WMR only operate Shrewsbury-Birmingham New Street services.

For a driver to be allowed to drive a train, they must have received training in both the traction (the type of unit/locomotive used) and the route. In most cases they will have to have driven that traction, and driven over that route, within the previous 6 months.

Route knowledge involves drivers learning things such as the name and location of all the stations on the line, the names and arrangement of the tracks, the type of signalling system used, line speeds, platform lengths, gradients, tunnels, bridges and other notable features. Basically they need to know the route like the back of their hand, to the extent that they know exactly where they are and where they need to start braking, even if it's night time and there is thick fog.

Obviously those requirements, as well as limits on shift length, breaks etc. amongst other factors, dictate what it makes sense for drivers at different depots to be trained on.

Therefore, WMR Shrewsbury drivers are only taught on the route between Shrewsbury and Birmingham, with a diversionary route via Bescot. The guide at the start of this thread illustrates this as follows:

Shrewsbury
Traction:
170, 196 training to start imminently
Routes:
Shrewsbury - Birmingham New Street (direct and via Bescot)
Bescot - Walsall

The only other drivers at WMR who have knowledge of the line to Shrewsbury are Wolverhampton drivers:

Wolverhampton
Traction:
170,323,350, 196 training to start imminently
Routes:
Birmingham - Liverpool
Birmingham - Coventry
Birmingham - Walsall - Rugeley
Lichfield - Birmingham - Redditch/Bromsgrove Cross City Line
Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury
Stafford - Rugeley

Hope this helps?

 

[craigybagel]

Yes

Cheers. I'll try and remember to update Fratton on timetable change day, I've got some TfW stuff to remove on that day too (say goodbye to Stafford).

Therefore, WMR Shrewsbury drivers are only taught on the route between Shrewsbury and Birmingham, with a diversionary route via Bescot. The guide at the start of this thread illustrates this as follows:

Arguably one of the less interesting route cards out there - and yet they never seem to struggle to recruit qualified drivers from other TOCs.

 

[ComUtoR]

Apologies in advance for the really basic question but I am having trouble understanding what constitutes a route. (...) I feel I am just misinterpreting the parameters slightly. Thanks in advance.

It depends how deep down the rabbit hole you wish to go. @Watershed has the jist of it but hasn't outlined the specifics. 'Routes' in railway terms can be very specific. I see my TOC and depot listed and I cringe at the missing details but accept the generic information.

As an example of the difference between 'specific' and 'generic'. A route may be generically considered between Station A and station Z but it actually consists of different junctions, loops, diversionaries, sidings, and even different platforms within a station.

 

[craigybagel]

It depends how deep down the rabbit hole you wish to go. @Watershed has the jist of it but hasn't outlined the specifics. 'Routes' in railway terms can be very specific. I see my TOC and depot listed and I cringe at the missing details but accept the generic information.

As an example of the difference between 'specific' and 'generic'. A route may be generically considered between Station A and station Z but it actually consists of different junctions, loops, diversionaries, sidings, and even different platforms within a station.

That was one of the harder choices I had to make when I first compiled this thread - how detailed to go. Some of the earlier depots I added could do with more detail - and yours is one (I don't know which depot you're at exactly, but I do know the rough area so I know exactly what issue you're getting at. All the depots for your TOC in that area need a much better explanation than what I've been able to provide so far - though I'm still grateful for the information I have been given!).

Originally I wasn't going to list maintenance depots either but on reflection I think they're better included and at some point I would like to add them in. But then I need expected we'd be able to get at least some information for every TOC depot in the country....

 

[Watershed]

Cheers. I'll try and remember to update Fratton on timetable change day, I've got some TfW stuff to remove on that day too (say goodbye to Stafford).

The latter is rather a shame - in the process, Chester to Crewe, and Crewe/Stafford to Birmingham lose their first train of the day and vice versa the last train of the day. Oh well!

Arguably one of the less interesting route cards out there - and yet they never seem to struggle to recruit qualified drivers from other TOCs.

That's putting in generously! "Ooh, double Birmingham today"

It depends how deep down the rabbit hole you wish to go. @Watershed has the jist of it but hasn't outlined the specifics. 'Routes' in railway terms can be very specific. I see my TOC and depot listed and I cringe at the missing details but accept the generic information.

As an example of the difference between 'specific' and 'generic'. A route may be generically considered between Station A and station Z but it actually consists of different junctions, loops, diversionaries, sidings, and even different platforms within a station.

That's absolutely true - I was keeping it in broad terms for the benefit of the person asking