First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Westnat]

I think they’re being worked hard on rail

They've been on Newport to Bristol Parkway recently.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think they’re being worked hard on rail

More recently, yes, but they were stood for quite a while!

 

[Bazer]

Indeed they are. Streetlites next



The enlarged fleet is needed for two reasons.
1. The 30 MMCs are still at SPS pending an order for new deckers
2. Although some contracts are not operating due to Covid, there is a much greater number of duplicates required to provide extra capacity for scholars in the main network, for the University and for Truro College.

Therefore in addition to the 30 MMCs releasing 30 vehicles on their return, others will be released when social distancing ends.

Somerset has considerable duplicates requiring PVR over and above the reduced network PVR.

The 9 Volvos in the process of joining the fleet now are actually to release the 4 Scania single decks back to HDB, to release the ex Leeds Scania Solar to scrap and to release a number of Tridents back to Winkleigh

While some of the latter have failed, the principal reason is because they are low capacity, had destination screens and other First systems removed before the original disposal, so the cascades deal with those issues.

The 5 Scanias being single decks were what was available at the time but there are limited uses for them in Cornwall.

However, none will leave for a few weeks as there is a very large rail job in the coming weeks in Cornwall that is being covered in full (but including an appearance by most of the Bristol Airport MMC fleet)

There is no plan or current identified need to put the ALXs into the permanent Cornwall fleet.

The Geminis will join though.

The 10 Base Volvos and the 3 Ensign E400s remain on hire alongside all the transfers in.

Shame the 4 HDB Scania's will eventually return as they have been good workhorses, whilst covering the additional capacity vehicles on Truro P&R. The bodywork may be a rough but the interior is quite tidy and respectable.

 

[Busaholic]

As far as I'm aware tfc no longer operate and service named u4 the closed door service between Helston and penzance is now called the 2.
View attachment 86462
And according to this as experience it goes around Porthleven.
But you are right there is one bus the 38 which goes to Porthleven one time a day but it is a closed door service so no public can use it.

I saw the afternoon 2 from Pz to Helston yesterday, and there was certainly no indication on the bus that it was a closed door service. Is the TfC school service to Mousehole genuinely numbered 9M, as carried by the d/d also seen and, if so, why?

 

[cnjb8]

Yes



There’s nothing currently scheduled to transfer to SW.

Thank you for clarifying

 

[Lizard1324]

I saw the afternoon 2 from Pz to Helston yesterday, and there was certainly no indication on the bus that it was a closed door service. Is the TfC school service to Mousehole genuinely numbered 9M, as carried by the d/d also seen and, if so, why?

May I ask what time you saw the 2 service, because the 2 travels through the day from penzance only going as far as praa sands then returning to pz apart from the 9am and 3pm schools services, but as you said there is no indication of a closed service as other tfc buses carry the route number as a studentd only banner such as the 34 and 38.
About the 9m is now the Mousehole school service and other previous school routes, I only presume they were re named to stop confusion with the previous tfc m6 running closely time with the Kennoway m6 and like wise with the tfc u4 (now the 2)

 

[Trainfan061193]

Indeed they are. Streetlites next



The enlarged fleet is needed for two reasons.
1. The 30 MMCs are still at SPS pending an order for new deckers
2. Although some contracts are not operating due to Covid, there is a much greater number of duplicates required to provide extra capacity for scholars in the main network, for the University and for Truro College.

Therefore in addition to the 30 MMCs releasing 30 vehicles on their return, others will be released when social distancing ends.

Somerset has considerable duplicates requiring PVR over and above the reduced network PVR.

The 9 Volvos in the process of joining the fleet now are actually to release the 4 Scania single decks back to HDB, to release the ex Leeds Scania Solar to scrap and to release a number of Tridents back to Winkleigh

While some of the latter have failed, the principal reason is because they are low capacity, had destination screens and other First systems removed before the original disposal, so the cascades deal with those issues.

The 5 Scanias being single decks were what was available at the time but there are limited uses for them in Cornwall.

However, none will leave for a few weeks as there is a very large rail job in the coming weeks in Cornwall that is being covered in full (but including an appearance by most of the Bristol Airport MMC fleet)

There is no plan or current identified need to put the ALXs into the permanent Cornwall fleet.

The Geminis will join though.

The 10 Base Volvos and the 3 Ensign E400s remain on hire alongside all the transfers in.

So let me get this straight, the 03 ALXs from Bath aren’t going to be permanent either? And the MMCs still at SPS are filling in the gap until new deckers arrive? Because that’s what it looks like you’re saying to me.

Marc said on Twitter as well that Kernow hope to have all the Geminis painted by the end of March too.

 

[richw]

Marc said on Twitter as well that Kernow hope to have all the Geminis painted by the end of March too.

I would imagine that is on track. By my estimates they are close to half of them done now.

 

[Goldfish62]

So let me get this straight, the 03 ALXs from Bath aren’t going to be permanent either? And the MMCs still at SPS are filling in the gap until new deckers arrive? Because that’s what it looks like you’re saying to me.

It seems clear to me that that is what's he's saying.

 

[On the Buses]

So let me get this straight, the 03 ALXs from Bath aren’t going to be permanent either? And the MMCs still at SPS are filling in the gap until new deckers arrive? Because that’s what it looks like you’re saying to me.

Marc said on Twitter as well that Kernow hope to have all the Geminis painted by the end of March too.

I though that was straight / clear. Yes!!!

I would imagine that is on track. By my estimates they are close to half of them done now.

Spot on schedule !

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If they're being taken into the fleet rather than being temporary loans I don't see why they wouldn't be repainted. Some of the Geminis are 16 years old and some of the Tridents were a similar age when repainted.

Appreciate that but I was working on the assumption that they wouldn't be permanent members; the 54 plate Geminis are about 18 months younger and FK are trying to improve the fleet.

I though that was straight / clear. Yes!!!

It was straight! Little surprised that the two Geminis are permanent additions given their age and capacity but perhaps more robust than some of the Tridents.

Anyhow, thanks for the updates. Difficult for operators to source vehicles in these times whilst carrying on with the usual plans and operations. 2020 has been quite the year for First South West.

 

[On the Buses]

[QUOTE="TheGrandWazoo, post: 4885843, member: 19354"

It was straight! Little surprised that the two Geminis are permanent additions given their age and capacity but perhaps more robust than some of the Tridents.

[/QUOTE]

Although it hasn’t operated this year the Malpas contract for Fal River requires a short DD to be able to turn at Malpas.

The two ex London Geminis fit the bill. One would generally work the V1 am and pm and Malpas in between. There needs to be a spare.

At present the V1 is using a coach to free up a decker which is what is in demand with social distancing.

The likelihood is that once social distancing duplication is no longer needed, the four additional Geminis, including two short ones, will allow all the remaining President Tridents to be removed from fleet.

 

[Lizard1324]

The likelihood is that once social distancing duplication is no longer needed, the four additional Geminis, including two short ones, will allow all the remaining President Tridents to be removed from fleet.

When you say remaining presidents does this also include the Kernow painted ones or just the barbie ones

 

[Trainfan061193]

When you say remaining presidents does this also include the Kernow painted ones or just the barbie ones

He means all of them which would include the painted ones too.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Although it hasn’t operated this year the Malpas contract for Fal River requires a short DD to be able to turn at Malpas.

The two ex London Geminis fit the bill. One would generally work the V1 am and pm and Malpas in between. There needs to be a spare.

At present the V1 is using a coach to free up a decker which is what is in demand with social distancing.

The likelihood is that once social distancing duplication is no longer needed, the four additional Geminis, including two short ones, will allow all the remaining President Tridents to be removed from fleet.

Ah right....that all makes sense in having a couple of short wheelbase ones.

When you say remaining presidents does this also include the Kernow painted ones or just the barbie ones

I think the inference that once you get rid of social distancing (which is the only reason why the barbie/urban ones are in service), then it also releases the additional Geminis which will allow the removal of all other Presidents i.e. the repainted ones

 

[On the Buses]

Ah right....that all makes sense in having a couple of short wheelbase ones.



I think the inference that once you get rid of social distancing (which is the only reason why the barbie/urban ones are in service), then it also releases the additional Geminis which will allow the removal of all other Presidents i.e. the repainted ones

So when we have the MMCs back the Cornwall closed top dd fleet will be E400 / Gemini / EL Tridents as required.

No one knows what the post Covid PVR will ultimately be so it’s all provisional - and of course there’s a focus on growing contract work.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So when we have the MMCs back the Cornwall closed top dd fleet will be E400 / Gemini / EL Tridents as required.

No one knows what the post Covid PVR will ultimately be so it’s all provisional - and of course there’s a focus on growing contract work.

Indeed, what the position will be post-Covid will be a challenge for the whole industry, though the amount of additional vehicles that FK has had to get in for additional schools is greater than most. How revised PVRs impact group wide fleet moves and vehicle replacement is anyone's guess.

Also, I'm sure the success in obtaining contract and events work is a significant component of Vision 2020.

Oh, and of course, the much rumoured (by posters on Plymothian Transit) return of First to Plymouth reacquiring the Stagecoach operations.... Graham does a good job on there but some of the contributions by people in comments section

 

[richw]

Oh, and of course, the much rumoured (by posters on Plymothian Transit) return of First to Plymouth reacquiring the Stagecoach operations.... Graham does a good job on there but some of the contributions by people in comments section

Citybus and Oakleys have taken all the tenders that stagecoach gave notice on. Most of Oakleys service vehicles are ex First Southwest acquired via Dan shears, although they’ve recently acquired a 2010 plaxton primo and ex Lothian B7rle from ensign I believe


Someone even went as far to mock up a photoshop of the 2018 tender results, and changed the date to 2020 and change everything stagecoach to First Southwest, and sent it to various local drivers and enthusiasts. I spotted the photoshop immediately from misaligned text when it was sent to me!

 

[MarkC]

Citybus and Oakleys have taken all the tenders that stagecoach gave notice on. Most of Oakleys service vehicles are ex First Southwest acquired via Dan shears, although they’ve recently acquired a 2010 plaxton primo and ex Lothian B7rle from ensign I believe


Someone even went as far to mock up a photoshop of the 2018 tender results, and changed the date to 2020 and change everything stagecoach to First Southwest, and sent it to various local drivers and enthusiasts. I spotted the photoshop immediately from misaligned text when it was sent to me!

Does anyone know why Stagecoach gave up these tenders though?

 

[LAIRA]

Advised by a driver on the 18, Stagecoach handed them back as no money could be made

 

[MarkC]

Advised by a driver on the 18, Stagecoach handed them back as no money could be made

That makes sense. Thanks. Hope stagecoach do stay in Plymouth as we need an alternative operator i feel. Just hope after Covid they feel they can make a go of it, although personally I have my doubts as to their future in the city regrettably

 

[MB162435]

The Tour of Britain next September and the Tall Ships Regatta in Falmouth next August, might also provide some opportunities and challenges for Kernow and other operators as well next year

Especially the Tall Ships Regatta in which Kernow along with OTS I believe, provided P&R services during the last visit in 2014 to a variety of places around Falmouth and Penryn, also was the debut of the 12 plate E400s I think before the start of U1/U2/U3 routes that September

 

[Busaholic]

May I ask what time you saw the 2 service, because the 2 travels through the day from penzance only going as far as praa sands then returning to pz apart from the 9am and 3pm schools services, but as you said there is no indication of a closed service as other tfc buses carry the route number as a studentd only banner such as the 34 and 38.
About the 9m is now the Mousehole school service and other previous school routes, I only presume they were re named to stop confusion with the previous tfc m6 running closely time with the Kennoway m6 and like wise with the tfc u4 (now the 2)

It would have been the 3 p.m. service, as I collected my serviced laundry from the launderette just before its 3 o'clock closure, and that establishment is on the corner of the road leading to Humphry Davy School, down which it headed to (presumably) pick up passengers. I'm too old and infirm to play games, but I'm almost minded to 'innocently' attempt to board the bus somewhere in Pz to see the reaction. If it isn't available to the general public it should certainly indicate that.

 

[richw]

I’m led to believe the council put a stop to student only running’s that are registered for public use

 

[Busaholic]

I’m led to believe the council put a stop to student only running’s that are registered for public use

That should be the position, but what an individual driver decides on could be a different matter: if you put your hand out to indicate you want the bus and it sails by, you're not in a position to argue with that driver if they'd attempted to refuse permission to board. I understand from different threads here that has happened on more than a few occasions countrywide.

 

[Lizard1324]

I’m led to believe the council put a stop to student only running’s that are registered for public use

Not sure it thats true as I sore on Friday a student only 34 heading to mullion school from the lizard and also one leaving Helston school for the lizard.

I know there was some complaints a couple of weeks ago because people were catching the 7:10 34 from lizard to Redruth which had no indication of being a student service and wernt told so, they then boarded the bus payed the full fare price and stayed on the 34 to Helston where they were told they had to get off as it is now a school service, there was no indication and they were left in Helston as 8am in the morning stuck in Helston.

 

[richw]

That should be the position, but what an individual driver decides on could be a different matter: if you put your hand out to indicate you want the bus and it sails by, you're not in a position to argue with that driver if they'd attempted to refuse permission to board. I understand from different threads here that has happened on more than a few occasions countrywide.

I was told the above by a driver on the 12, when chatting one morning in Bude, that the council had put a stop to student only unless they are deregistered from public service.

 

[Goldfish62]

I was told the above by a driver on the 12, when chatting one morning in Bude, that the council had put a stop to student only unless they are deregistered from public service.

You can't deregister a local bus service. I guess what the council is saying is that the operator needs to clearly distinguish journeys that are for students only.

 

[TechDan2002]

32350 spotted early this afternoon passing Truro College on the T1 (pictured below)

 

[carlberry]

You can't deregister a local bus service. I guess what the council is saying is that the operator needs to clearly distinguish journeys that are for students only.

They can be deregistered from VOSA then operated as 'closed contracts'. This also means they're not subject to the same vehicle requirements.