First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[Volvodart]

Is it not more likely they'll be used on current single decker routes?

See below:-

https://www.york.gov.uk/news/article/965/-8-4millon-secured-for-more-electric-buses-in-york

The new buses will be used on First’s routes 1, 4, 5, 6, the Hospital Shuttle Bus and Park and Ride route 2.

 

[Seehof]

Routes 1, 4 and 5 are mostly operated by double deck buses, some are double deck “Uni” liveried buses. Very occasionally a double deck EV turns up on route 4.

 

[HST43257]

This is terrible capacity news for York.

The 1, 4 and 6 can have packed double deckers at times. Also, the 2 is losing a lot of capacity on busy service.

Might we see a more frequent service on these bus routes (anything up to 8 buses per hour perhaps)?

And where’s the investment for the 66?

 

[dodecahedron67]

This is terrible capacity news for York.

The 1, 4 and 6 can have packed double deckers at times. Also, the 2 is losing a lot of capacity on busy service.

2 simply won't cope with these, you can easily fill a whole citaro bendy outside of Jan/Feb/Mar

I know a bit about some changes coming, and I'm not optimistic, shall we say

And where’s the investment for the 66?

e: see #689

Again, I know some ideas in the pipeline but I'm sworn to secrecy for now

 

[Tempest3K]

Urgh, unless there's a frequency increase at peak this isn't going to work well on the 5/5A either - the existing singles we get are always full and standing and it really needs to be all decker to encourage more use!

https://yorkmix.com/fleet-of-44-ele...-york-after-city-wins-8-4-million-in-funding/ has the routes these are for:

They will run on First’s routes 1, 4, 5, 6, the Hospital Shuttle Bus and Park and Ride route 2.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I see that the 398 Huddersfield Uni to Storthes Hall is being run by First Halifax branded Enviro 400s. Are these on loan to Huddersfield, or transferred and not yet rebranded or has the route been reallocated to Halifax for some reason?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I see that the 398 Huddersfield Uni to Storthes Hall is being run by First Halifax branded Enviro 400s. Are these on loan to Huddersfield, or transferred and not yet rebranded or has the route been reallocated to Halifax for some reason?

Halifax may have gained the extra work to see out the contract, as Storthes Hall itself is suppose to be closing and student accomadation being relocated to Huddersfield town centre itself.

 

[Ancelljb]

Urgh, unless there's a frequency increase at peak this isn't going to work well on the 5/5A either - the existing singles we get are always full and standing and it really needs to be all decker to encourage more use!

https://yorkmix.com/fleet-of-44-ele...-york-after-city-wins-8-4-million-in-funding/ has the routes these are for:

Looking at the timetables, the peak vehicle requirement (PVR) for the routes the electrics are destined for is 35 I believe. So there is a chance of frequency uplift on these routes as 44 vehicles are due. I work it out as:

• Route 1 (every 15 mins) - PVR 8
• Route 4 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 5
• Route 5/5A (every 30 minutes each) - PVR 9
• Route 6 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 9
• Hospital Shuttle (every 20 minutes) - PVR 2
• Park and Ride Route 2 (every 12 minutes) - PVR 3

Route 6 and the HSB tend to interwork, not sure if that reduces the PVR at all.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I see that the 398 Huddersfield Uni to Storthes Hall is being run by First Halifax branded Enviro 400s. Are these on loan to Huddersfield, or transferred and not yet rebranded or has the route been reallocated to Halifax for some reason?

They haven't been rebranded yet. Apparently First were reminded of the age limit on the contract, so E400s have been swapped for Geminis.

 

[Tempest3K]

Looking at the timetables, the peak vehicle requirement (PVR) for the routes the electrics are destined for is 35 I believe. So there is a chance of frequency uplift on these routes as 44 vehicles are due. I work it out as:

• Route 1 (every 15 mins) - PVR 8
• Route 4 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 5
• Route 5/5A (every 30 minutes each) - PVR 9
• Route 6 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 9
• Hospital Shuttle (every 20 minutes) - PVR 2
• Park and Ride Route 2 (every 12 minutes) - PVR 3

Route 6 and the HSB tend to interwork, not sure if that reduces the PVR at all.

That's useful info thanks - hope their issues with crewing existing services are resolved before this new fleet arrives then!

 

[dodecahedron67]

Looking at the timetables, the peak vehicle requirement (PVR) for the routes the electrics are destined for is 35 I believe. So there is a chance of frequency uplift on these routes as 44 vehicles are due. I work it out as:

• Route 1 (every 15 mins) - PVR 8
• Route 4 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 5
• Route 5/5A (every 30 minutes each) - PVR 9
• Route 6 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 9
• Hospital Shuttle (every 20 minutes) - PVR 2
• Park and Ride Route 2 (every 12 minutes) - PVR 3

Route 6 and the HSB tend to interwork, not sure if that reduces the PVR at all.

2s (and 8s) are going up to every 10 PVR 4 after easter with further uplifts planned is all I’ll say

 

[HST43257]

Looking at the timetables, the peak vehicle requirement (PVR) for the routes the electrics are destined for is 35 I believe. So there is a chance of frequency uplift on these routes as 44 vehicles are due. I work it out as:

• Route 1 (every 15 mins) - PVR 8
• Route 4 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 5
• Route 5/5A (every 30 minutes each) - PVR 9
• Route 6 (every 15 minutes) - PVR 9
• Hospital Shuttle (every 20 minutes) - PVR 2
• Park and Ride Route 2 (every 12 minutes) - PVR 3

Route 6 and the HSB tend to interwork, not sure if that reduces the PVR at all.

These buses which have gone from 10/12-15 min frequencies are busy enough as double deckers/bendy buses. Single deckers with small frequency uplifts are not good enough news

 

[RELL6L]

These buses which have gone from 10/12-15 min frequencies are busy enough as double deckers/bendy buses. Single deckers with small frequency uplifts are not good enough news

When the critical factor at the moment is the supply of labour, replacing larger buses with smaller ones is seriously counter-productive. Unless York has a different labour market to nearly everywhere else they should be running as many double deckers as possible, at reduced frequencies if need be but running reliably when they say they will. I know they haven't got electric double deckers with the same range as single deckers yet but there must be a more efficient use of resources. And if they can run full length singles then presumably they could run electric E500s (if they can get E500s round Fowey then surely anywhere is possible! - yes I know they don't go round the town centre, that would be a challenge!), Hong Kong have ordered some. Does anyone see a rapid return of a plentiful supply of drivers? I don't. Ditto - by the looks of it but off this thread - Nottingham.

 

[dodecahedron67]

11107 has returned to York. Don’t know if it's permanent or not, but it's in debranded old silver York park and ride livery.

 

[Volvodart]

Aberdeen got 11106 instead of it.

 

[dodecahedron67]

We’ve only had 11101-5 at York since September.

 

[dodecahedron67]

On good authority all of York’s metrodeckers are grounded until further notice. Getting some extra buses from Leeds (green Streetdeck MicroHybrids), Halifax and Oldham, and the bendys are being forced out with 4/6 (11101, 03, 04, 05) out today in revenue and Silver debranded 11107 out on test before potential revenue service.

Service cuts across all of york whilst the bus shortage is felt, noticably only 3 buses on each P+R site and half service on unibus 66/67

Also have potential news on future of uni services but that’s still unconfirmed for now

 

[Scotrail88]

On good authority all of York’s metrodeckers are grounded until further notice. Getting some extra buses from Leeds (green Streetdeck MicroHybrids), Halifax and Oldham, and the bendys are being forced out with 4/6 (11101, 03, 04, 05) out today in revenue and Silver debranded 11107 out on test before potential revenue service.

Service cuts across all of york whilst the bus shortage is felt, noticably only 3 buses on each P+R site and half service on unibus 66/67

Also have potential news on future of uni services but that’s still unconfirmed for now

Able to share news of uni plans?

 

[Seehof]

Thank you for the info re bus substitutions. I look forward to seeing what is about tomorrow!

 

[Swimbar]

On good authority all of York’s metrodeckers are grounded until further notice. Getting some extra buses from Leeds (green Streetdeck MicroHybrids), Halifax and Oldham, and the bendys are being forced out with 4/6 (11101, 03, 04, 05) out today in revenue and Silver debranded 11107 out on test before potential revenue service.

Service cuts across all of york whilst the bus shortage is felt, noticably only 3 buses on each P+R site and half service on unibus 66/67

Also have potential news on future of uni services but that’s still unconfirmed for now

Apparently Switch (Optare) have grounded all Metrodecker EV's for checks after the Potters Bar fire at the weekend.

TfL removes over 100 London buses after EV blaze in Potters Bar

Transport for London (TfL) has removed 108 London buses from service following a fire in Potters Bar.

www.whtimes.co.uk

Transport for London (TfL) has removed 108 London buses from service following a fire in Potters Bar.


The blaze, which occurred yesterday (May 22), engulfed six buses and saw emergency services receive 73 calls.


Now, nine bus routes have been disrupted, with the 'Switch Mobility MetroDecker EV' vehicles being removed as a precautionary measure.


TfL will also investigate the cause of the Potters Bar fire, in a bid to ensure that it does not happen again.

 

[Andyh82]

Yes that’s correct, normal First livery Gemini’s and the bendi buses were running the Park and Ride services today

Apparently Halifax are loaning a few Enviro 400s to York from tomorrow

 

[dodecahedron67]

Able to share news of uni plans?

New buses from Autumn 2023, service uplifts from October 2022 & a new livery (unsure if only for new buses or if current B9s will receive it as well) if all stays to what I’ve heard

Photo of some of the Leeds City MicroHybrids loaned attached (not my own)

Loaned buses are tracking as:
39004
39502
39503
39505
39507
39514 (StreetDeck, LeedsCity)
39515
39516
39517
39518

Loaned buses tracking correctly:
33875 (E400, Halifax)
33876 (E400, Halifax)
35203 (StreetDeck, LeedsCity)
35510 (StreetDeck, LeedsCity)
37500 (B9TL, Halifax)
66743 (B7RLE, Leeds)

Can be found on P+R routes as well as routes 1, 5, 6

 

[dodecahedron67]

For anyone interested in the bendys, all 5 Blue/Copper York examples are out at once for the first time in months. Today on 2s, 3s & 7s but will be found on any P+R except daytime 9s, there is one evening 9 that *could* be a bendy.

Rawcliffe (2s) will be anyone’s best bet as all buses running are bendys wherever possible

 

[Seehof]

Thanks for the information. They certainly are an unusual bus in this country now.

 

[Jordan Adam]

If anyone is after the Artics in York it's probably best you get them sooner rather than later. Of course we'll know for certain when the time comes and these things often change but current rumours up here is that the Citaros remaining in York will be moving up to Aberdeen at the end of this year / start of next year when the new electric single deckers start to arrive.

 

[dodecahedron67]

If anyone is after the Artics in York it's probably best you get them sooner rather than later. Of course we'll know for certain when the time comes and these things often change but current rumours up here is that the Citaros remaining in York will be moving up to Aberdeen at the end of this year / start of next year when the new electric single deckers start to arrive.

They're definitely the first buses to be leaving once the new ones arrive.

I hold my reservations about "end of the year/start of next", shall we say. Something tells me there's going to be a rather unhappy realisation that replacing 150 capacity Citaros with rigid 50-60 (being generous) capacity single deckers is not going to end well in busy periods on the P&Rs and they might be dragged on a bit more. There's at least been the realisation that they're better than the Metrodeckers internally as they're all being pushed into use whenever possible

Also, there's a few low bridges that we don't know how the new buses are going to interact with. Would really not surprise me that the new ones arrive and it's found out that Leeman Road/various other low bridges and the buses don't play ball. That's what happened with the electric citaro that was on trial last year!

 

[Volvodart]

First are supposed to be doing road trials with the Arrival bus soon, so I assume it will be tested then (if it is still that bus York are getting).

 

[Seehof]

All very interesting. I too am sceptical about seeing these new buses in York within a year. I understand that York Council is looking at issues that might be raised by replacing double deck buses with single deck ones.
The possibility of these new buses still seems all very uncertain to me.
I do consider us very lucky in York, yes there is room for improvement, but the public bus service is basically very good including in the evenings and Sundays.

 

[Tempest3K]

Leeman Road

Leeman Road won't be a problem as it's being closed as part of York Central (assuming that they ever get that project off the ground properly).......

 

[dodecahedron67]

Leeman Road won't be a problem as it's being closed as part of York Central (assuming that they ever get that project off the ground properly).......

A big assumption given the recent local outcry