First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[RELL6L]

The registrations area on BusTimes has a number of changes from 2 October although some that were there (64, 323, 615, 616, 619) have gone.
Seems to include the full withdrawal of 327, 539, 571, reduction of 586 to every 2 hours, part withdrawal of 308 (says between Honley and Bradshaw Road but Bradshaw Road is in Honley - maybe it means Holmfirth).

It also shows the X84 being withdrawn between Ilkley and Otley, although other sources say this change has been cancelled. I can't believe this would be allowed to happen - Ilkley has just been voted the best place to live! Maybe Transdev would extend the 62 to Otley, and/or Connexions re-extend the X52 to Ilkley.

And of course the X98/99 which has been discussed on the Transdev thread.

 

[Ken H]

The registrations area on BusTimes has a number of changes from 2 October although some that were there (64, 323, 615, 616, 619) have gone.
Seems to include the full withdrawal of 327, 539, 571, reduction of 586 to every 2 hours, part withdrawal of 308 (says between Honley and Bradshaw Road but Bradshaw Road is in Honley - maybe it means Holmfirth).

It also shows the X84 being withdrawn between Ilkley and Otley, although other sources say this change has been cancelled. I can't believe this would be allowed to happen - Ilkley has just been voted the best place to live! Maybe Transdev would extend the 62 to Otley, and/or Connexions re-extend the X52 to Ilkley.

And of course the X98/99 which has been discussed on the Transdev thread.

The X84 and the X98/X99 are not exactly a good fit for First Leeds, which is mostly an urban operation - the old Leeds City Transport. Trailing off into the country is a different ball game. I was unsurprised they abandoned Skipton.
The Aire and Wharfedale areas have good trains, so there can't be many rich pickings there.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I think most of their regular passengers are resigned to the fact that the service will always be a shoestring bare minimum effort designed for those who don't have another option rather than a quality service designed to be an alternative to private cars.

There's no innovation to talk of, other than the half arsed introduction of TOTO that just caused more confusion and an app that lies about a countdown to the scheduled time being live data if the bus is cancelled.

I haven't seen anyone use the Tap On Tap Off thing anywhere in West Yorkshire. Most still scan their FirstDay or FirstWeek on the main Ticketer.

The registrations area on BusTimes has a number of changes from 2 October although some that were there (64, 323, 615, 616, 619) have gone.
Seems to include the full withdrawal of 327, 539, 571, reduction of 586 to every 2 hours, part withdrawal of 308 (says between Honley and Bradshaw Road but Bradshaw Road is in Honley - maybe it means Holmfirth).

It also shows the X84 being withdrawn between Ilkley and Otley, although other sources say this change has been cancelled. I can't believe this would be allowed to happen - Ilkley has just been voted the best place to live! Maybe Transdev would extend the 62 to Otley, and/or Connexions re-extend the X52 to Ilkley.

And of course the X98/99 which has been discussed on the Transdev thread.

No suprise if the 539 is axed, I've never seen anyone on it but it would make a great fit for either TLC or South Pennine to take on but with the 571 being withdrawn I am suprised. Bear in mind that both the 586 and 571 interwork with each other in Halifax, so it would make sense to extend the 586 to Brighouse and run it as a Commons to Brighouse via Halifax service since the journey time would be around 53 minutes from end to end.

If its true that the X84 has been curtailed at Otley then I'd rather see Transdev extend the 72 from Grassington to Otley to fill in the gap whilst opening up journey oppotunities at the same time.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If its true that the X84 has been curtailed at Otley then I'd rather see Transdev extend the 72 from Grassington to Otley to fill in the gap whilst opening up journey oppotunities at the same time.

Depends whether a Solo (used on the 72) could cope with the loading to Otley; seems a bit arbitrary in linking those towns.

 

[Deerfold]

I haven't seen anyone use the Tap On Tap Off thing anywhere in West Yorkshire. Most still scan their FirstDay or FirstWeek on the main Ticketer.


No suprise if the 539 is axed, I've never seen anyone on it but it would make a great fit for either TLC or South Pennine to take on but with the 571 being withdrawn I am suprised. Bear in mind that both the 586 and 571 interwork with each other in Halifax, so it would make sense to extend the 586 to Brighouse and run it as a Commons to Brighouse via Halifax service since the journey time would be around 53 minutes from end to end.

If its true that the X84 has been curtailed at Otley then I'd rather see Transdev extend the 72 from Grassington to Otley to fill in the gap whilst opening up journey oppotunities at the same time.

The X84 change is no longer on Vosa. The 586 is still there. If that happens, Rishworth to Halifax will have gone from 3bph to 0.5bph in 20 years.

 

[RELL6L]

Depends whether a Solo (used on the 72) could cope with the loading to Otley; seems a bit arbitrary in linking those towns.

Grassington to Ilkley is stunning - I did this is March - but it is run 3 days a week by North Yorkshire County Council using a very small minibus, the 74A. I don't see how the 72 could be extended this way from Grassington to Ilkley and then on to Otley to provide a 30 minute frequency - which is what is appropriate (and not with a Solo). Lovely idea though!

 

[Ken H]

Grassington to Ilkley is stunning - I did this is March - but it is run 3 days a week by North Yorkshire County Council using a very small minibus, the 74A. I don't see how the 72 could be extended this way from Grassington to Ilkley and then on to Otley to provide a 30 minute frequency - which is what is appropriate (and not with a Solo). Lovely idea though!

Otley - Ilkley need a decent half hour service. Via the old main road through Burley, then either the main road or Valley Drive from Wheatley/Ben Rhydding. And the 'round the houses' service on top.
Extend the 62 or 64 eastwards, or the A1 or X52 westwards.
But it looks like the X84 will continue to Ilkley so its a bit academic

 

[dodecahedron67]

I posted about this a while back but I think it got deleted for no source. Here's picture proof (Source: my whatsapp messages) a bendy has ventured onto the 10s in York.

 

[noddingdonkey]

Following the introduction of new fares and multi-operator tickets, First have hastily introduced new Day tickets as of today to complicate matters around cross-boundary travel.

There are now three different day tickets available, all priced at £4.50.

FirstDay - only valid on First services, includes cross-boundary services into Greater Manchester (184, 590/591), available on First app or on board the bus.
MCard DaySaver - valid on all operators within WY, not cross boundary. Available on Metro app or on board the bus.
First DaySaver - Same validity as MCard DaySaver, available on First app.

Quite why they couldn't arrange to sell the MCard DaySaver from their own app rather than introducing a clone with a name that introduces ambiguity is beyond me.

 

[HST43257]

I posted about this a while back but I think it got deleted for no source. Here's picture proof (Source: my whatsapp messages) a bendy has ventured onto the 10s in York.

When exactly was this? Also is it a coincidence that it’s a City Centre terminating bus or is that to do with not so bendy bus friendly roads of Poppleton, for example?

 

[Andyh82]

In the app I can only see the FirstDay also valid outside West Yorks and a “DaySaver”

And on a separate note, rather than Day Saver I think they should have gone with the old established DayRover name.

And despite various day tickets being called FirstDay, MetroDay and then DaySaver, most people will still ask for a ‘Dayrider’

 

[dodecahedron67]

When exactly was this? Also is it a coincidence that it’s a City Centre terminating bus or is that to do with not so bendy bus friendly roads of Poppleton, for example?

Shall we say, it was a B7 for most of the day except a turn. Driver swap in town and a B7 went back on

 

[noddingdonkey]

In the app I can only see the FirstDay also valid outside West Yorks and a “DaySaver”

And on a separate note, rather than Day Saver I think they should have gone with the old established DayRover name.

And despite various day tickets being called FirstDay, MetroDay and then DaySaver, most people will still ask for a ‘Dayrider’

It's actually a lot clearer within the app than the website suggests with it just using DaySaver.

Yes keeping the established DayRover brand would have been good. I was going to suggest it was to differentiate between these tickets that are available in the morning peak and DayRover as an off-peak leisure product, but for some reason the Bus and Train DaySaver isn't valid on buses before 09.30 but the bus only version is.

 

[Deerfold]

Otley - Ilkley need a decent half hour service. Via the old main road through Burley, then either the main road or Valley Drive from Wheatley/Ben Rhydding. And the 'round the houses' service on top.
Extend the 62 or 64 eastwards, or the A1 or X52 westwards.
But it looks like the X84 will continue to Ilkley so its a bit academic

The 64 and X52 only run hourly. The 62 currently interworks with the 64 at Ilkley. The A1 runs every 20 minutes, but doesn't serve Ilkley or Otley.

It's not long since there were 4 fast buses an hour - 64, 2xX84 and X52 - though poorly spaced.

It's actually a lot clearer within the app than the website suggests with it just using DaySaver.

Yes keeping the established DayRover brand would have been good. I was going to suggest it was to differentiate between these tickets that are available in the morning peak and DayRover as an off-peak leisure product, but for some reason the Bus and Train DaySaver isn't valid on buses before 09.30 but the bus only version is.

They changed the name Day Rover to Day Saver a few years ago for no obvious reason - especially as Arriva had their own Day Saver.

It had become very hard to buy the train and bus and family DayRover by that point - it could be bought dated from the few staffed stations in the area, or undated from Leeds, Bradford, Halifax or Keighley bus stations.

Finally, it's appeared on the MCard Mobile app and there are now versions which are valid before 0930 - but a lot more expensive and priced by Zone rather than just all of West Yorkshire.

 

[SCH117X]

Otley - Ilkley need a decent half hour service. Via the old main road through Burley, then either the main road or Valley Drive from Wheatley/Ben Rhydding. And the 'round the houses' service on top.
Extend the 62 or 64 eastwards, or the A1 or X52 westwards.

its the A3 that goes to Otley and it would need an extra vehicle (and more importantly currently a driver) to extend it to Ilkley

 

[Deerfold]

its the A3 that goes to Otley and it would need an extra vehicle (and more importantly currently a driver) to extend it to Ilkley

It would give Ilkley its first regular bus service to Bradford in 30 years (not counting weekend Dalesbus services). But by an even longer route than it used to have.

 

[AndyHudds]

It is striking how much of this thread is concerned with vehicles rather than the services being provided. It is the latter which is the point of buses for most people,

I wouldn't mind but there is plenty to discuss with First, they are absolute utter bone idle, unimaginative, insidious operator, who really don't care about anyone but their shareholders, real shysters. There's no one to bring them to book but they are a product of the wider failings of the bus system.

 

[Ken H]

I wouldn't mind but there is plenty to discuss with First, they are absolute utter bone idle, unimaginative, insidious operator, who really don't care about anyone but their shareholders, real shysters. There's no one to bring them to book but they are a product of the wider failings of the bus system.

I wonder what proportion of the operations are still with First compared to when they first acquired them.
Midland Red West - much gone
West Yorkshire -much gone. First Bradford is tiny compared to Yorkshire Rider days and now First Leeds are flogging off routes.

Major reductions in First Leeds this weekend. 11 gone to another operator. X26 & X27, 29, 46, 85 withdrawn. X98 & X99 gone to Transdev.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I wonder what proportion of the operations are still with First compared to when they first acquired them.
Midland Red West - much gone
West Yorkshire -much gone. First Bradford is tiny compared to Yorkshire Rider days and now First Leeds are flogging off routes.

Major reductions in First Leeds this weekend. 11 gone to another operator. X26 & X27, 29, 46, 85 withdrawn. X98 & X99 gone to Transdev.

Looking at the Halifax operations, its begining to look miniscule what with the 539 (Stainland) and 548 (Nunnery Lane) facing withdrawal and Arriva (yes, Arriva) taking on the 571 to a revised timetable and no longer serving Bradford. I'm guessing it won't be long until the 586 (Halifax to Commons) is taken over by another operator meaning no First presence in the deeper Ryburn Valley the nearest would be the 579 in Sowerby Bridge, taking in consideration that the 587 that First ran Monday to Satirday was taken over by Team Pennine as a full seven day week service (TP already ran the Sunday service).

Then there's the Mixenden mess of services 509/510/511/512/513, of which the 509, 511 and 513 have only recently been introduced are facing that axe too leaving only the 510 and 511. I cannot see why a "service 520" simply could not be introduced to run from Halifax to Bradshaw via Pellon, Mount Tabor, Wainstalls (Balkram Edge), Mixenden and Illingworth to replace the mishmash of services, with the 510 running from Halifax to Wainstalls via Shroggs Lane, Hebble Lane, Wheatley and Mixenden.


Looking at Leeds, the X26/X27: has the funding been pulled by the developers of Thorpe Park, which in turn has lead to its withdrawal?
As for the 29 getting axed, this should have been merged with the 5/5A to cover more of the city centre and it should have had its terminus at Leeds Dock (the city centre to Halton Moor section should have been replaced with a "41" and interworked with the 40). Likewise with the 85, maybe the X85 should have been resurected to run every 30 minutes alongside a revised X84 (that would too run every 30 minutes), thus giving the faster Leeds to Otley core a combined every 15 minute service. Hasn't the 33 (Leeds - Yeadon - Otley) been scrapped as well?

 

[Deerfold]

Looking at the Halifax operations, its begining to look miniscule what with the 539 (Stainland) and 548 (Nunnery Lane) facing withdrawal and Arriva (yes, Arriva) taking on the 571 to a revised timetable and no longer serving Bradford. I'm guessing it won't be long until the 586 (Halifax to Commons) is taken over by another operator meaning no First presence in the deeper Ryburn Valley the nearest would be the 579 in Sowerby Bridge, taking in consideration that the 587 that First ran Monday to Satirday was taken over by Team Pennine as a full seven day week service (TP already ran the Sunday service).

The 579 frequency has dropped from every 10 minutes to every 20. It's not that long since the 528, 560, 562, 564/6, 577, 578 and 579 ran every 10 minutes between them between Halifax and Sowerby Bridge (along with 5bph to Sowerby from Walsh and a bus an hour via each of Copley, the moor and Willowfield).

Looking at Leeds, the X26/X27: has the funding been pulled by the developers of Thorpe Park, which in turn has lead to its withdrawal?
As for the 29 getting axed, this should have been merged with the 5/5A to cover more of the city centre and it should have had its terminus at Leeds Dock (the city centre to Halton Moor section should have been replaced with a "41" and interworked with the 40). Likewise with the 85, maybe the X85 should have been resurected to run every 30 minutes alongside a revised X84 (that would too run every 30 minutes), thus giving the faster Leeds to Otley core a combined every 15 minute service. Hasn't the 33 (Leeds - Yeadon - Otley) been scrapped as well?

I'm not sure how long the X26/X27 were supposed to run, but it's just coming up to 4 years since they were introduced. They've been running at 2 bph instead of the planned 6 bph for some time.

Running the X85 through to Otley didn't work well as the route via Pool is about 10 minutes slower - adding two extra X85s would need a lot more drivers at a time when First are cutting much less busy services to save drivers. The current 85 uses 1 driver. The X85 you suggest would use at leat 4.

The 33 has not been scrapped.

 

[Tempest3K]

First planning to expand tap on/tap off to York as well? Seen ticketer readers fitted on both single (behind driver) and double deck (above front wheel opposite staircase) vehicles working the 5/5A over the past week.

 

[Kieran1990]

Are Leeds (Bramley & Hunslet) got a shortage of deckers?
Seeing a lot of singles out last week or so on a lot routes. Even the 16 has a couple out today (usually very rare).

 

[_toommm_]

Are Leeds (Bramley & Hunslet) got a shortage of deckers?
Seeing a lot of singles out last week or so on a lot routes. Even the 16 has a couple out today (usually very rare).

First have an awful habit of putting a single decker on the 51 that passes Meanwood at 15:25ish, which picks up a shed ton of kids from the school. They even fill a double decker plus standing.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

Are Leeds (Bramley & Hunslet) got a shortage of deckers?
Seeing a lot of singles out last week or so on a lot routes. Even the 16 has a couple out today (usually very rare).

I read on Facebook (I think) that drivers are queuing up for buses that aren't there. So there must be a shortage, which is strange considering all the frequency reductions and route cuts recently.

 

[Kieran1990]

First have an awful habit of putting a single decker on the 51 that passes Meanwood at 15:25ish, which picks up a shed ton of kids from the school. They even fill a double decker plus standing.

I avoided that one today when I left work, luckily made the 52 at 15:10 off Moor Allerton Centre.
51/52 do seem popular candidates for being single deckered. The 40 as well seems a solid single decker route minus a few deckers thrown on

 

[JD2168]

Shortage of deckers could be linked to an increase in school services since CT Plus closure & a number have moved to Halifax & Huddersfield.

 

[Andyh82]

I read on Facebook (I think) that drivers are queuing up for buses that aren't there. So there must be a shortage, which is strange considering all the frequency reductions and route cuts recently.

Shortage of parts caused by supply chain issues?


The vast majority of buses that have been transferred to Halifax and Huddersfield in recent months have come from Bradford

 

[dodecahedron67]

Not my photo and publicly posted on instagram by someone I follow. New Streetdecks for uni buses in York

 

[JD2168]

It's strange that they have gone for low height versions; I'm not aware of any height restrictions on the route with it run currently by full height B9TLs.

 

[Volvodart]

Maybe these were the ones supposedly going to First Scotland East, who probably needed that