LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

Richard Scott

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I would imagine the history associated with 91132 would add some weight to the decision to scrap it, 40126 was scrapped very quickly after withdrawal to deter souvenir hunters and avoid any attempts to preserve it.
Know it's off topic but saw a flame cut number from 40126 with no reason to doubt it was genuine.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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I would imagine the history associated with 91132 would add some weight to the decision to scrap it, 40126 was scrapped very quickly after withdrawal to deter souvenir hunters and avoid any attempts to preserve it.
I don’t see why. Neither of the incidents in which the locomotive were involved were through any fault of the train.
 

37114

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I don’t see why. Neither of the incidents in which the locomotive were involved were through any fault of the train.
Neither was the great train robbery the fault of 40126. Maybe it is coincedence but a loco involved in 2 very major fatal accidents being preserved as a reminder is not really desirable
 

DavidB

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Neither was the great train robbery the fault of 40126. Maybe it is coincedence but a loco involved in 2 very major fatal accidents being preserved as a reminder is not really desirable

Apart from railway enthusiasts nobody would have a clue about its history - note that 43018 has been preserved and that was involved in one of the major HST collisions.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Neither was the great train robbery the fault of 40126. Maybe it is coincedence but a loco involved in 2 very major fatal accidents being preserved as a reminder is not really desirable
I’m not talking about preservation I’m talking about the reason it was the first to be scrapped. I highly doubt that was the reason.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Neither was the great train robbery the fault of 40126. Maybe it is coincedence but a loco involved in 2 very major fatal accidents being preserved as a reminder is not really desirable
Someone cared enough to renumber it though, despite luck/curses/hoodoos/whatever you want to call them not being real.

Almost certainly is a coincidence, but the rush to scrap coupled with the apparent (though not evident) lack of stripping, and talk of a "miscommunication" in the process means this site will have threads about the "cursed" 91 cropping up for years to come... :lol:
 

XCTurbostar

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I honestly never thought I would see a 91 being scrapped before a HST powercar in 2021..
 

hexagon789

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I honestly never thought I would see a 91 being scrapped before a HST powercar in 2021..
I think it speaks to the more flexible nature of the HSTs and then after all when Grand Central were going to run the Mk4s on an electrified route they chose 90s over 91s.

The 91s did a job and did it well but they just aren't best suited to anything other than hauling high-speed InterCity trains - there's just not the work for them.
 

DavidB

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I think it speaks to the more flexible nature of the HSTs and then after all when Grand Central were going to run the Mk4s on an electrified route they chose 90s over 91s.

The 91s did a job and did it well but they just aren't best suited to anything other than hauling high-speed InterCity trains - there's just not the work for them.

Even so, given the number of Mk3s scrapped it is still surprising that no power cars have gone.

Grand Central will have gone for 90s because as a non-tilting train it would have been limited to 110mph anyway, and 90s are more suited to that than 91s as they accelerate quicker. The locos being owned by another part of the DB empire might have played a part as well.
 

hexagon789

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Even so, given the number of Mk3s scrapped it is still surprising that no power cars have gone.

Grand Central will have gone for 90s because as a non-tilting train it would have been limited to 110mph anyway, and 90s are more suited to that than 91s as they accelerate quicker. The locos being owned by another part of the DB empire might have played a part as well.
I thought it was more to do with reliability as the acceleration difference is negligible at higher speeds between 90s and 91s. A 90 takes about the same time to reach 110 that a 91 takes to reach 125 for similar loads.
 

43 302

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I thought it was more to do with reliability as the acceleration difference is negligible at higher speeds between 90s and 91s. A 90 takes about the same time to reach 110 that a 91 takes to reach 125 for similar loads.
I was under the impression that the 90s acceleration was quite a bit superior. Although I do agree that reliability is probably one of the many factors involved.
 

hexagon789

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I was under the impression that the 90s acceleration was quite a bit superior. Although I do agree that reliability is probably one of the many factors involved.
There was a discussion about this in another thread and the conclusion was there was little in it overall, at over about 80mph the 91s higher continuous output counts for more.
 

DavidB

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There was a discussion about this in another thread and the conclusion was there was little in it overall, at over about 80mph the 91s higher continuous output counts for more.

The 91s are very slow in the lower ranges though, so the 90 is still likely to be better with a 110mph top speed - especially given that in many cases it won't be straight from a station to a 110mph speed limit.
 

D365

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The easiest way of thinking about it, is that a Class 90 is the preferred option, unless 125mph operation is a necessity.
 

hexagon789

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The 91s are very slow in the lower ranges though, so the 90 is still likely to be better with a 110mph top speed - especially given that in many cases it won't be straight from a station to a 110mph speed limit.
True, I was just wanting to point out that it's less pronounced than is often implied

The easiest way of thinking about it, is that a Class 90 is the preferred option, unless 125mph operation is a necessity.
Pretty much
 

800001

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91110 out on a Neville Hill to Peterborough return run this morning
Test run after set was released from Wabtec last week.

Also has Train manager and on board crew on board so that they keep up there competency.
 

4REP

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Test run after set was released from Wabtec last week.

Also has Train manager and on board crew on board so that they keep up there competency.
How can it be called test runs when they been on the route for 32 years!
Don't you mean warm runs to keep them active?
 

HamworthyGoods

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How can it be called test runs when they been on the route for 32 years!
Don't you mean warm runs to keep them active?

Teat runs often take place after a works visit for overhaul.

When Crewe works did major overhauls the North Wales Coast passenger trains were often favourite for test runs with the booked loco dead in consist behind the test loco in case of problems.

Tests runs are used to both prove traction ahead of acceptance (new trains) which is what you are thinking of and also to test after completion of major works.
 

800001

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How can it be called test runs when they been on the route for 32 years!
Don't you mean warm runs to keep them active?
I call it exactly what I said, a test run. It has been in Wabtec for several weeks having maintainance, so it operated a test run to ensure all is well.
The 'warm' runs as you put it, are weekly Friday moves swapping sets between Belmont Yard and Neville Hill. Each set will be rotated every 6-7 weeks.
 

Wyrleybart

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With respect, I think the fleet disposition at the top of the page needs a couple of words altering regarding 91132. It hasn't been scrapped yet, but is surely stored pending breaking up. I am guessing most of the components will be removed, including bogies, then the remains broken up.

However, it is not over until the fat lady sings, and how many locos (mostly for preservation I admit) have been low loadered out of scrap yards ?

My choice of words would be "stored pending disposal"
 

Domh245

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With respect, I think the fleet disposition at the top of the page needs a couple of words altering regarding 91132. It hasn't been scrapped yet, but is surely stored pending breaking up. I am guessing most of the components will be removed, including bogies, then the remains broken up.

However, it is not over until the fat lady sings, and how many locos (mostly for preservation I admit) have been low loadered out of scrap yards ?

My choice of words would be "stored pending disposal"

I don't think modern scrapyards (particularly small ones like Sims Beeston) will let it sit for long. Components will only be recovered if asked to, and given the methods employed by Sims yards I don't think any whole-component recovery is likely, it'd have been removed already if it was going to happen

"Stored pending disposal" would be how you'd describe things sat in Ely or Worksop - once they pass through the gates of a scrapyard it's pretty terminal (and in lieu of someone watching the scrapyard each day - the day it went through the gates is as good a comparison for date of scrapping as the day it started coming apart)
 

43096

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I don't think modern scrapyards (particularly small ones like Sims Beeston) will let it sit for long. Components will only be recovered if asked to, and given the methods employed by Sims yards I don't think any whole-component recovery is likely, it'd have been removed already if it was going to happen

"Stored pending disposal" would be how you'd describe things sat in Ely or Worksop - once they pass through the gates of a scrapyard it's pretty terminal (and in lieu of someone watching the scrapyard each day - the day it went through the gates is as good a comparison for date of scrapping as the day it started coming apart)
There was a HST TF (41183) that went to Booth’s in the last few months and has been extracted and sold on to LSL and is now at Eastleigh, so could be used for the staycation service.
 

DavidB

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There was a HST TF (41183) that went to Booth’s in the last few months and has been extracted and sold on to LSL and is now at Eastleigh, so could be used for the staycation service.

Locos have been extracted from there in the past as well - one of the 56s in the conversion programme came from there.

However, Sims is a lot different to Booths.
 

bramling

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There was a HST TF (41183) that went to Booth’s in the last few months and has been extracted and sold on to LSL and is now at Eastleigh, so could be used for the staycation service.

Booths is the exception to the rule. The nature of their yard is such that stuff can linger much longer than elsewhere.

I’d tend to agree with the view that barring something extremely exceptional, 91132 is probably already gone.
 

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