Oxford Corridor Phase 2 & Platform 5 updates

[fishwomp]

It was looking very wet under the bridge earlier this week, with machines pumping away the build up, would guess it was at least 6" deep at the lowest point. Is there to be a permanent pump here?? It must be one of the lowest points in that side of the city.

 

[JamesT]

It was looking very wet under the bridge earlier this week, with machines pumping away the build up, would guess it was at least 6" deep at the lowest point. Is there to be a permanent pump here?? It must be one of the lowest points in that side of the city.

Yes, an article from the previous delay: https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/0...xtending-working-hours-at-oxford-station.html

Whilst this major work is underway, a temporary drainage system will be put in place in order to manage groundwater ahead of the installation of a brand new permanent pumping system later during the project.

 

[hwl]

Thanks Benjwri. I had not seen this. Clearly they are not too happy!

I would have thought it was certain that such a major project is being carried out by private contractors. However the discovery of unexpected archaeology will have meant that the works they bid for are very different from what is now required and indeed need skills which they didn't possess. However the responsibility for managing this evolving project still lies with NR

I think the differentiation attempting to be made here is between private sector working for NR, and private sector doing their own infrastructure, as mentioned utility companies.

Utility companies run to their own schedule and many projects struggle to hold them to account.

The country council's poor record keeping of what is under their roads (not the first time) and undocumented construction of some of the problem items under the road are have played a large part in the creating the delays. The county council should be throwing stones in glass houses...
Needless to say the country council won't want to admit their role in things and joint statements help them do this.

The next thing I'd expect to see is that the utilities companies will say some of their cables were moved by another utility or OCC during resurfacing/repaving so there own record weren't accurate.

Due to the national rush to switch off of PSTN doing fibre works had very long lead times.

 

[JamesT]

Somewhat hearsay, but it’s now being reported that Botley Road may not be reopened until the end of next year - https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24504486.oxford-politician-said-botley-road-shut-end-2025/

But Jericho householder John Mair, said a "very senior member of the cabinet", who he was friends with, had told him the road wouldn't be open until December 2025.

Is that going to be down to the difficulty of getting a slot to shut the railway for the bridge replacement, or have Network Rail utterly botched their project management that it’s going to take 2.5 times as long?

 

[Oxfordblues]

My view is that if Network Rail and Kier Construction had realised before the project started just how complicated diverting the utilities would prove to be and if the County Council were told that the road closure would be for at least two years, then the scheme might never have been authorised. Whilst the lead-time for a 7-day blockade might be at least 18 months it could be considerably shorter, as we experienced with the Nuneham Viaduct closure

As a local resident in West Oxford I've become used to the lack of traffic on Botley Road and happily cycle to the city centre via the Thames towpath and Folly Bridge. It's a bit further but largely traffic-free.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The commenters in the Oxford Mail know absolutely nothing and the reporters arguably less. It's not half the newspaper it used to be.

(Have to admit I've been enjoying the closure... it makes it much easier to cycle across Frideswide Square with an 8-year old!)

 

[4COR]

The commenters in the Oxford Mail know absolutely nothing and the reporters arguably less. It's not half the newspaper it used to be.

In fairness, reading below the comment line has always been scraping the barrel somewhat... And yes - Botley Rd and Frideswide are much nicer places to be as cyclists or peds!

 

[The Planner]

My view is that if Network Rail and Kier Construction had realised before the project started just how complicated diverting the utilities would prove to be and if the County Council were told that the road closure would be for at least two years, then the scheme might never have been authorised. Whilst the lead-time for a 7-day blockade might be at least 18 months it could be considerably shorter, as we experienced with the Nuneham Viaduct closure

There was a scurrilous suggestion recently in the "Oxford Mail" that the project had gone so far over-budget that it might be cancelled, even at this late stage (echos of HS2 there!) As a local resident in West Oxford I've become used to the lack of traffic on Botley Road and happily cycle to the city centre via the Thames towpath and Folly Bridge. It's a bit further but largely traffic-free.

How are you comparing a bridge that had to be fixed which NR was paying out compensation for vs planned work? There is very little chance of getting a week long blockade at short notice.

 

[Oxfordblues]

How are you comparing a bridge that had to be fixed which NR was paying out compensation for vs planned work? There is very little chance of getting a week long blockade at short notice.

Could you please clarify the lead-time for a planned 7-day blockade? I seem to recall it's at least 18 months, which puts the Botley Road bridge replacement blockade into 2026. But 18 months is only what I heard mentioned at a possession-planning meeting over 20 years ago (Channel Tunnel route clearance project)

 

[The Planner]

Could you please clarify the lead-time for a planned 7-day blockade? I seem to recall it's at least 18 months, which puts the Botley Road bridge replacement blockade into 2026. But 18 months is only what I heard mentioned at a possession-planning meeting over 20 years ago (Channel Tunnel route clearance project)

V4 of 2025 EAS is done, so anything prior to December 25 is highly unlikely, unless phone calls are made and its all dealt with without process.

 

[Falcon1200]

V4 of 2025 EAS is done, so anything prior to December 25 is highly unlikely, unless phone calls are made and its all dealt with without process.

Given the importance of the extra line and platform at Oxford, to all operators both passenger and freight, would they agree to considerably reduced planning timescales in order to complete the work and reap the benefits sooner?

 

[The Planner]

Given the importance of the extra line and platform at Oxford, to all operators both passenger and freight, would they agree to considerably reduced planning timescales in order to complete the work and reap the benefits sooner?

They may well do, but I don't believe its ever going to be done at less that the D/CPPP timescales, so at least 7 months. Especially so when the timetable is now back at T12, so operators bidding at T18 (although freight always were)

 

[fishwomp]

With all the delays at the Botley Rd bridge, bit late to change anything now, but I'd wonder why the space adjacent south (former foot / road crossing) which is largely unused ground (west side) and pedestrian ramp and car park (east side) wasn't used from the start to divert the (utilities') services without making their pipes go deeper and encounter more issues. This shows what looks like the right way to do it:

Ulleskelf Mires

thetrupgrade.co.uk

in a nutshell - the lines were kept operational, whilst tunnel boring machines dug through.

 

[JamesT]

With all the delays at the Botley Rd bridge, bit late to change anything now, but I'd wonder why the space adjacent south (former foot / road crossing) which is largely unused ground (west side) and pedestrian ramp and car park (east side) wasn't used from the start to divert the (utilities') services without making their pipes go deeper and encounter more issues. This shows what looks like the right way to do it:

Ulleskelf Mires

thetrupgrade.co.uk

in a nutshell - the lines were kept operational, whilst tunnel boring machines dug through.

I’m not sure that only going deep enough to allow for the new road level would have avoided hitting the Victorian arch which is allegedly the main problem.
Of course, if they’d known the arch was there to that extent, perhaps diverting would have been an option.

 

[Edvid]

Update from a couple of days ago:

Network Rail confirms next steps for Botley Road programme with critical focus on Thames Water’s sewer and mains connections

Network Rail has today provided an update on the next steps in its Botley Road programme.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Wednesday 2 Oct 2024

Network Rail confirms next steps for Botley Road programme with critical focus on Thames Water’s sewer and mains connections​

Region & Route: Wales & Western: Western | Wales & Western

Network Rail has today provided an update on the next steps in its Botley Road programme.

Thames Water is currently excavating a number of additional ‘trial holes’ on behalf of Kier, Network Rail’s principal contractor. Trial holes are a way to collect information on the ground conditions and services below the road and Thames Water will continue this work for the next five weeks (Monday - Friday only).

These additional trial holes are needed to allow Thames Water to confirm whether it is possible to move its water main connection point further west along Botley Road towards Osney bridge. The two previous locations identified by Kier have been rejected by Thames Water due to operational concerns that any temporary works could impact on Oxford’s main water supply and sewer.

Since July 2024 Network Rail has been working with both parties to try and secure agreement to identify alternative locations for the diversions of these key utilities that serve Oxford and Oxfordshire, in consultation with the bus companies and local authorities. The current work being carried out by Thames Water will determine whether a new alternative location is possible.

Following completion of the physical trial hole works, Thames Water and Kier will then require a further four weeks to validate the designs, cost, and programme to carry out the diversions.

Once this information is shared with Network Rail, discussions can continue with funders around potential options for the overall scheme.

Francis McGarry, investment director Wales & Western at Network Rail, said: “We apologise for the continued disruption and are grateful for the support and patience of the community whilst we undertake these works. We want to give clarity to residents, businesses and stakeholders as soon as possible. The work currently being carried out by Thames Water is vital to helping to find a way forward for this project. We will keep residents and the local community updated on any further developments as this work takes place.“

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Update from a couple of days ago:

Network Rail confirms next steps for Botley Road programme with critical focus on Thames Water’s sewer and mains connections

Network Rail has today provided an update on the next steps in its Botley Road programme.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

GRIP 1-8 process is supposed to stop this sort of situation arising in the first place. Questions should be asked about how they got themselves into this situation in the first place.

 

[The exile]

GRIP 1-8 process is supposed to stop this sort of situation arising in the first place. Questions should be asked about how they got themselves into this situation in the first place.

You can carry out as many processes as you like but if something turns out to be not where it’s supposed to be… Ironically, if what they had found had been a large bomb things would have got done a lot quicker!

 

[Nicholas43]

Press release from Network Rail says that

Since July 2024 Network Rail has been working with both parties to try and secure agreement to identify alternative locations for the diversions of these key utilities that serve Oxford and Oxfordshire, in consultation with the bus companies and local authorities. The current work being carried out by Thames Water will determine whether a new alternative location is possible.

Following completion of the physical trial hole works, Thames Water and Kier will then require a further four weeks to validate the designs, cost, and programme to carry out the diversions.

Once this information is shared with Network Rail, discussions can continue with funders around potential options for the overall scheme. [my bold]

I surmise that DfT, and Treasury, may insist on substantial descoping, for example making do with just four tracks over the existing bridge. But that's possibly a matter for the speculative thread.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Has there been a timetabling exercise to demonstrate that an hourly service from/to Milton Keynes can be accommodated by the existing four platforms at Oxford or is completion of Platform 5 a prerequisite to the start of service? If the latter, in view of the delays in completing the project, I doubt the new service can realistically start before 2026.

 

[12LDA28C]

Has there been a timetabling exercise to demonstrate that an hourly service from/to Milton Keynes can be accommodated by the existing four platforms at Oxford or is completion of Platform 5 a prerequisite to the start of service? If the latter, in view of the delays in completing the project, I doubt the new service can realistically start before 2026.

It's been mentioned on another thread that EWR services are planned to use the Bay platforms 1 and 2 and indeed the training paths already in RTT from December show that there is sufficient capacity in the bays to allow this to happen. EWR trains will not be using Platform 5.

Press release from Network Rail says that

I surmise that DfT, and Treasury, may insist on substantial descoping, for example making do with just four tracks over the existing bridge. But that's possibly a matter for the speculative thread.

Descoping? 'Making do' with four tracks over the bridge will signal the death of the project, simple as that. It wouldn't be possible to install the new track and platform without increasing capacity over Botley Road, unless you demolished a significant part of Platform 4 and extended at the north end. Zero chance of that.

 

[Nicholas43]

Descoping? 'Making do' with four tracks over the bridge will signal the death of the project, simple as that. It wouldn't be possible to install the new track and platform without increasing capacity over Botley Road, unless you demolished a significant part of Platform 4 and extended at the north end. Zero chance of that.

It would be possible, if you demolished a chain or two of the southern end of platform 4, and occasionally allowed 9-coach trains standing at platform 4 to foul the turnout to platform 5. But discussion of that is perhaps better in the speculative thread, already linked in post #258 above.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

You can carry out as many processes as you like but if something turns out to be not where it’s supposed to be… Ironically, if what they had found had been a large bomb things would have got done a lot quicker!

Historically records would have been used but the whole point of Grip was to undertake intrusive site investigations and stages 3 & 4 to validate hidden assets. Of course I don't know what they did and maybe they couldn't get requisite road closures to do such investigations. This GWEP all over again albeit i acknowledge on a much lower scale but we now have another railway enhancement stalled but the meter is still running.

 

[zwk500]

Historically records would have been used but the whole point of Grip was to undertake intrusive site investigations and stages 3 & 4 to validate hidden assets. Of course I don't know what they did and maybe they couldn't get requisite road closures to do such investigations. This GWEP all over again albeit i acknowledge on a much lower scale but we now have another railway enhancement stalled but the meter is still running.

was this project planned under GRIP or was it just late enough to be part of SPEED/PACE?

 

[ABB125]

Update from a couple of days ago:

Network Rail confirms next steps for Botley Road programme with critical focus on Thames Water’s sewer and mains connections

Network Rail has today provided an update on the next steps in its Botley Road programme.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

5 weeks seems like rather a long time to dig a few trial holes. Especially when they're only looking for one particular asset...

 

[Falcon1200]

Given that the road has been closed since April 2023, ie 17 months and counting, it seems a little late to be boring trial holes now?

Regardless, the work at the station has to be completed as per the plan, otherwise all the disruption, and cost, has been wasted.

 

[12LDA28C]

It would be possible, if you demolished a chain or two of the southern end of platform 4, and occasionally allowed 9-coach trains standing at platform 4 to foul the turnout to platform 5. But discussion of that is perhaps better in the speculative thread, already linked in post #258 above.

You would need to demolish rather more than a chain or two to allow for the turnout and signalling requirements. It’s not going to happen. Five lines are needed over the Botley Road bridge.

 

[zwk500]

It would be possible, if you demolished a chain or two of the southern end of platform 4, and occasionally allowed 9-coach trains standing at platform 4 to foul the turnout to platform 5. But discussion of that is perhaps better in the speculative thread, already linked in post #258 above.

Bit in Bold - this would completely destroy the benefits though. The whole point of the scheme is that trains turn round in 4, therefore they must fit between the signals.

 

[3973EXL]

Pre Oct 2 press release -

Oxford remodelling project PWI Thames Valley Section meeting 11 September 2024

 

[Nicholas43]

Pre Oct 2 press release -

Oxford remodelling project PWI Thames Valley Section meeting 11 September 2024

Thanks for posting the link. Interesting exposition of the aspirations, green roof and all! Nothing, that I could detect, about what is expected to be actually achieved, when.

 

[hwl]

Thanks for posting the link. Interesting exposition of the aspirations, green roof and all! Nothing, that I could detect, about what is expected to be actually achieved, when.

Most of "when" is reliant on Thames Water progress on replacing the water and sewage and few would want to bet on that progress until it is virtually complete.