Planned 387 and 377 cascades to Southern and Southeastern in 2025

[physics34]

IIRC, it was 4tph to Caterham but 4tph to Coulsdon Town, of which 2tph went forward to Tattenham Corner, no?

Correct, off peak, Peak times it was Tattenham.

 

[brad465]

Does any of the Tattenham Corner branch justify 4tph? The Caterham branch is busier so I think would, at least in the peak, but no station on the former branch logged more than 250,000 annual trips in the latest reported data.

 

[physics34]

Does any of the Tattenham Corner branch justify 4tph? The Caterham branch is busier so I think would, at least in the peak, but no station on the former branch logged more than 250,000 annual trips in the latest reported data.

Off peak.its very quiet but peak it deserves london options. Remember, when Coulsdon north closed, more trains then served Smitham as a consequence. Plus the additional coaches would assist Purley Oaks and South Croydon further up the line.
Don't want to sound bigheaded but I drive the Tatt line and did before COVID when Vic services were busy.

 

[PGAT]

Although the Tattenham Corner line stations have seen some of the weakest post-covid recoveries on the network.

 

[MotCO]

IIRC, it was 4tph to Caterham but 4tph to Coulsdon Town, of which 2tph went forward to Tattenham Corner, no?

Wasn't there a service from Charing Cross to Tattenham Corner, possibly off-peaks? Is this what you are referring to?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wasn't there a service from Charing Cross to Tattenham Corner, possibly off-peaks? Is this what you are referring to?

No, I'm referring to 2tph London Bridge to Cat & Tat fast via Norwood Jct, which was 10-377, 2tph London Bridge to Caterham via Forest Hill, 8-377/8-455, and 2tph London Bridge to Coulsdon Town stopping via Norwood Junction, 8-455.

Charing Cross is long gone, about fifteen years so.

 

[JonathanH]

Although the Tattenham Corner line stations have seen some of the weakest post-covid recoveries on the network.

That is not at all surprising given the nature of the settlements it serves. It certainly doesn't warrant 4tph in the peaks, no matter how many people used to go to Victoria. Splitting and joining 4tph in each direction at Purley was a huge performance risk as well, affecting the punctuality of trains on the Redhill corridor if anything went wrong.

No, I'm referring to 2tph London Bridge to Cat & Tat fast via Norwood Jct, which was 10-377, 2tph London Bridge to Caterham via Forest Hill, 8-377/8-455, and 2tph London Bridge to Coulsdon Town stopping via Norwood Junction, 8-455.

That was off-peak and all day Saturday from May 2018, but in the weekday peaks the two stopping routes fell away, and instead there was 2tph Victoria to Caterham / Tattenham Corner.

 

[physics34]

That is not at all surprising given the nature of the settlements it serves. It certainly doesn't warrant 4tph in the peaks, no matter how many people used to go to Victoria. Splitting and joining 4tph in each direction at Purley was a huge performance risk as well, affecting the punctuality of trains on the Redhill corridor if anything went wrong.


That was off-peak and all day Saturday from May 2018, but in the weekday peaks the two stopping routes fell away, and instead there was 2tph Victoria to Caterham / Tattenham Corner.

Sorry but if you see that the 2tph during the peaks are standing room only by the time they get to Reedham, on the up, they do need 4tph in the peaks IMO. I admit this is probably only Tuesday to Thursday (as people seem to have extended long weekends these days). Would take pressure off Coulsdon South. And as mentioned before Purley Oaks and South Croydon need more services.

Ideally but they wouldn't like it, the 2tph from tatt could run to vic all the way as an 8 car, and the 2tph from cat could run to London Bridge also as an 8 car, with no splitting and attaching.

 

[brad465]

Sorry but if you see that the 2tph during the peaks are standing room only by the time they get to Reedham, on the up, they do need 4tph in the peaks IMO. I admit this is probably only Tuesday to Thursday (as people seem to have extended long weekends these days). Would take pressure off Coulsdon South. And as mentioned before Purley Oaks and South Croydon need more services.

Ideally but they wouldn't like it, the 2tph from tatt could run to vic all the way as an 8 car, and the 2tph from cat could run to London Bridge also as an 8 car, with no splitting and attaching.

Has the Tattenham Corner branch had services skip stations on the branch itself before? Maybe if there were a few peak services that called Tat C, Tadworth, Coulsdon Town, Purley, then the most suitable calling pattern to either London Bridge or Victoria (and the reverse in the evening peak), the commuters would be more spread out and more space would exist for Purley passengers onwards.

 

[The_Train]

387301-387306 all still shown as working for GN out of Hornsey.

Did these used to be with c2c or am I making this up in my own head?

 

[Class15]

Did these used to be with c2c or am I making this up in my own head?

Yes they did.

 

[The_Train]

Yes they did.

When did they move from there to GN?

 

[Class15]

When did they move from there to GN?

Appears to be August 2022.

There was a thread called ‘C2C 387s’ which might have more specific info.

 

[The_Train]

Appears to be August 2022.

That would figure as I think that was just after 301/2/6 returned from their sublease at GWR. Cheers mate

 

[Class455]

387302 has now transferred south, becoming the first ex c2c 387 to move south. It's currently at Lovers Walk

 

[Azuma800]

387173 was also back working with Great Northern yesterday.

 

[Kite159]

387302 has now transferred south, becoming the first ex c2c 387 to move south. It's currently at Lovers Walk

First time that a 387/3 has worked in passenger service on DC?

 

[RichJF]

Are all the 383/3s supposed to be coming South of the River?

 

[Peter Sarf]

387302 has now transferred south, becoming the first ex c2c 387 to move south. It's currently at Lovers Walk

Getting around - c2c => GW => GN => Southern !. IIrc ?.

 

[Southern Dvr]

If it’s anything like the GWR 387s that came south it will be going back north in no time!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Whether or not Southern needs more stock, I can’t say, but South London is getting a terrible deal. 2tph on routes out of Victoria and London Bridge reign supreme in many areas. It’s not 1985 anymore. It should all be part of the Overground, especially for London Bridge trains on the Sydenham corridor, there’s no point running a regular service of Overground trains with cheaper tfl fares and an irregular service of Southern services with sky high National Rail fares. In the peaks, the Services from London Bridge to Victoria and Sutton are lightly loaded probably due to this reason.

 

[PGAT]

Whether or not Southern needs more stock, I can’t say, but South London is getting a terrible deal. 2tph on routes out of Victoria and London Bridge reign supreme in many areas. It’s not 1985 anymore. It should all be part of the Overground, especially for London Bridge trains on the Sydenham corridor, there’s no point running a regular service of Overground trains with cheaper tfl fares and an irregular service of Southern services with sky high National Rail fares. In the peaks, the Services from London Bridge to Victoria and Sutton are lightly loaded probably due to this reason.

It's not a particularly fair comparison regarding your points about the fares. London Bridge is in Zone 1 so will still have higher fares compared to the Windrush line regardless of whether or not it's in TfL's hands

 

[Baji]

It also doesn't help that Southern losing /3s would result in a loss of capacity on suburban services since they frequently run in 4+3+3 formations

It doesn’t seem to make sense for Southern to lose units. Surely they need more units to perform better services or increase more services.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

In the peaks, the Services from London Bridge to Victoria and Sutton are lightly loaded probably due to this reason.

I regularly use the service from London bridge via Sutton to Epsom in the evening peak; I have to disagree that it is lightly loaded. It's usually full and standing - it does empty out somewhat once it gets past Wallington, but it's still a case of virtually all seats taken until Sutton and quite a number do stay on to Epsom.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I regularly use the service from London bridge via Sutton to Epsom in the evening peak; I have to disagree that it is lightly loaded. It's usually full and standing - it does empty out somewhat once it gets past Wallington, but it's still a case of virtually all seats taken until Sutton and quite a number do stay on to Epsom.

I mean the new peak stopping trains from Sutton to London Bridge via Forest Hill

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I mean the new peak stopping trains from Sutton to London Bridge via Forest Hill

Ah... forgot about those... Agree they don't seem to be the best use of rolling stock when a simple change with the Overground at West Croydon can cover all the possible travel combinations if a New Cross Gate stop could be inserted in the existing services. I am guessing pathing on the fast lines is the reason that hasn't been done?

 

[Baji]

Ah... forgot about those... Agree they don't seem to be the best use of rolling stock when a simple change with the Overground at West Croydon can cover all the possible travel combinations if a New Cross Gate stop could be inserted in the existing services. I am guessing pathing on the fast lines is the reason that hasn't been done?

The 8 cars on London Bridge to Sutton via Forest Hill route should swap with the 6 cars that run on the London Bridge to East Croydon via Tulse Hill as London Bridge to Sutton via Forest Hill seems relatively empty compared to other services.

 

[Class455]

If it’s anything like the GWR 387s that came south it will be going back north in no time!

It’s survived the checks and is in service! Just had it on a Victoria to Eastbourne, it’s paired with 387123

 

[Class15]

Southern needs a net gain of units from this cascade, very urgently. 17:00 London Victoria to Epsom Downs - utterly rammed leaving Clapham Junction.

 

[JonathanH]

Southern needs a net gain of units from this cascade, very urgently. 17:00 London Victoria to Epsom Downs - utterly rammed leaving Clapham Junction.

What does 'utterly rammed' mean in this context and is it a new problem? The idea of giving everyone a seat at peak time disappeared a long time ago as modern rolling stock has fewer seats and more room to stand. Presumably some passengers are only travelling for a matter of minutes.

The problem with these suburban services mentioned by informed posters in the past is that the revenue yield per passenger is small so justifying more capacity for journeys that take a few minutes is difficult.