RMT rejects latest offer from both Network Rail and RDG (TOCs)

[Nicholas Lewis]

Keir Starmer and Labour will frankly be a breath of fresh air when elected next year. Cant happen soon enough.

Yes they will but they are at risk of being utterly overwhelmed with demands from all parts of the public sector and they wont have the resources to deliver what any of the unions are demanding. Rachael Reeves is currently looking like a far stricter chancellor than Hunt and his predecessor who have sprayed cash around all over the place to keep the red wall voters and pensioners onside. So i just hope they are being clear with the unions what the art of the possible is going to be as publicly they appear to be stand offish with ministers need to talk with union leaders as the answer when we know full well the answer is simple - money.

 

[Buffer stop]

I wonder how many within the DfT are thinking that its time for the nuclear option of fire and rehire going down the lines of the working relationship has broken down that it's unrecoverable?

In your dreams

 

[philosopher]

March is more likely only because there aren't many days in February to do so.

Saturday 4th March I think is a near certainty of being a strike date.

 

[Kite159]

Know a lot of RMT members, do you? A laughable take that is a million miles from the reality I see on a daily basis

Ever heard the phrase "echo chamber" with those having views not following the loudest voices keeping quiet or risk getting bullied or cast to one side as unmutual.

Those not agreeing simply staying quiet or lying when it comes to agreeing to things. What people say in public doesn't always reflect what they would do in the privacy of their own home/voting booth. How many people will say they will vote labour/lib dem but secretly vote for the tories when it comes to putting that cross on the paper?

How many reps simply discarded any feedback which didn't fit their own personal views when it came to feeding back to the main council about the deal?

 

[The Planner]

Saturday 4th March I think is a near certainty of being a strike date.

Cheltenham race festival 14-17 March. Would ironically bet a few quid on that.

 

[Buffer stop]

Cheltenham race festival 14-17 March. Would ironically bet a few quid on that.

100%

 

[JonathanH]

Cheltenham race festival 14-17 March. Would ironically bet a few quid on that.

It really needs to be stepped up now.

Something like every Saturday indefinitely would be ideal although would miss commuters. Perhaps ASLEF members could do their bit too. Didn't conductors on Northern strike every Saturday for a time?

 

[irish_rail]

It really needs to be stepped up now.

Something like every Saturday indefinitely would be ideal although would miss commuters. Perhaps ASLEF members could do their bit too. Didn't conductors on Northern strike every Saturday for a time?

Errr Aslef did our bit last week. Trust me losing two days pay at the moment isn't much fun....

 

[Drogba11CFC]

It really needs to be stepped up now.

Something like every Saturday indefinitely would be ideal although would miss commuters. Perhaps ASLEF members could do their bit too. Didn't conductors on Northern strike every Saturday for a time?

Get knotted.

 

[Bald Rick]

So secret that the basis for this great revelation is publicly available in their rule book, readily available on their website and regularly quoted on this forum, at least.

That’s not the point I was making, as you know.

Cheltenham race festival 14-17 March. Would ironically bet a few quid on that.

Budget day 15 March too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It really needs to be stepped up now.

Something like every Saturday indefinitely would be ideal although would miss commuters. Perhaps ASLEF members could do their bit too. Didn't conductors on Northern strike every Saturday for a time?

In the midst of a cost of living crisis are staff going to be able to afford to support that?

 

[43096]

Errr Aslef did our bit last week. Trust me losing two days pay at the moment isn't much fun....

It’s your decision.

 

[Bald Rick]

It really needs to be stepped up now.

It was stepped up, significantly, in December & January. 11 days of action for NR, and 8 days plus overtime / Rest Day ban for TOC, plus some TOCs had additional action. What did that achieve, other than lose people thousands of pounds?

 

[the sniper]

I wonder how many within the DfT are thinking that its time for the nuclear option of fire and rehire going down the lines of the working relationship has broken down that it's unrecoverable?

It'd be one of the worst options available to them, so maybe they are thinking of it.

 

[Class 170101]

Budget day 15 March too.

and the civil servants have already announced striking for that day.

Additionally it should be pointed out in earlier posts referring to MPs pay that MPs had a 4% pay rise in April 2022 to north of £84000 never mind this years taking it to over £86000

 

[JonathanH]

It was stepped up, significantly, in December & January. 11 days of action for NR, and 8 days plus overtime / Rest Day ban for TOC, plus some TOCs had additional action. What did that achieve, other than lose people thousands of pounds?

Well, where do they turn then? Do they have to strike in whole days? A one hour walkout every day at 0745 would have almost as much impact as striking the whole day and only lose one hour of pay?

 

[Trothy]

And yet the overwhelming feedback I am hearing is that people in NR want to settle on this deal. Sure there are some people unhappy, and that tends to be concentrated in certain parts of the country, but as more people understand the offer in front of them, the most common response is “what are we striking for?”.

For example don’t know a single signaller or MOM or controller or member of NR stations team who wants to carry on with the strikes. Perhaps they should be allowed to settle, and let maintenance carry on with their dispute?

And who exactly are you? How are you getting all this feedback? If those people are so eager to settle why did they not attend the meetings or feedback to their reps what they want?

For the record I'm a signaller at a ROC and a quick straw poll in our Whatsapp group (Signallers/SSMs) had us at around 65/35 in favour of rejecting the offer and continuing action either strike/OT ban or both.

 

[Killingworth]

Can they do that? If collective bargaining applies, individuals can't exactly sign up to their own pay deals.

Exactly. The employer pays you at the rate they've now decided and imposed. The only normal way not to accept it would be to resign. However if new rates for voluntary overtime and rest day working were introduced the employee decides whether they break any union bans to take the money or sticks to basic hours and doesn't.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well, where do they turn then? Do they have to strike in whole days? A one hour walkout every day at 0745 would have almost as much impact as striking the whole day and only lose one hour of pay?

a one hour walkout at 0745 each day means no pay for that shift…

 

[farleigh]

Seriously? You think it could get worse? Keir Starmer and Labour will frankly be a breath of fresh air when elected next year. Cant happen soon enough.

I wonder if this will age well?

 

[Dave91131]

A question from someone not employed in the rail industry, unaffected by the strikes and who has no strong opinion in favour of or against the positions of either side;

The government appear adamant that the offer rejected by the RMT today is final and will not be improved upon.

Some posters in this thread appear to suggest that the scale of the strikes should be stepped up, and Mick Lynch of the RMT is quoted as saying something along the lines of "it's time for the government to listen to the unions and make a realistic offer" (which sounds broadly like what I've seen him quoted as saying regularly since the strikes started last summer).

What do people genuinely think will happen next?

 

[Bald Rick]

How are you getting all this feedback?

By talking to my colleagues. Of course I only talk to a certain proportion, albeit from more than one area.

If those people are so eager to settle why did they not attend the meetings or feedback to their reps what they want?

Some did. Some didn’t bother, because, and I quote directly, “they only listen to what they want to hear”.

For the record I'm a signaller at a ROC and a quick straw poll in our Whatsapp group (Signallers/SSMs) had us at around 65/35 in favour of rejecting the offer and continuing action either strike/OT ban or both.

Fair enough, and that changes my understanding of the position.

 

[matthewjohnson]

A question from someone not employed in the rail industry, unaffected by the strikes and who has no strong opinion in favour of or against the positions of either side;

The government appear adamant that the offer rejected by the RMT today is final and will not be improved upon.

Some posters in this thread appear to suggest that the scale of the strikes should be stepped up, and Mick Lynch of the RMT is quoted as saying something along the lines of "it's time for the government to listen to the unions and make a realistic offer" (which sounds broadly like what I've seen him quoted as saying regularly since the strikes started last summer).

What do people genuinely think will happen next?

Personal, completely uninformed opinion. Same as the last few months. Periodic, sporadic strikes until a new (labour) government is formed. That's my guess anyway

 

[Alex1971]

Well having listened to all the evidence sessions in the House of Commons and elsewhere of what RDG and Network Rail are saying; there’s no way this offer is going to be improved, no way. My guess is it will be imposed by the management - with their argument being rail staff need the “cash in their pockets” etc etc.

Can an offer be imposed without union agreement?

 

[Bald Rick]

Can an offer be imposed without union agreement?

Yes, albeit there are some legalities to check.

Felixstowe Port imposed their pay deal recently.

 

[Meerkat]

Why do the RMT go on about the money (variable sympathy from the public) and DOO (the public dont care at best) and not the shift changes that seem to be causing the most angst to members? That sounds like things that almost everybody would have sympathy for.
If one was cynical one might think that the RMT dont want those changes to be removed and the membership vote to accept.

 

[Thirteen]

It was stepped up, significantly, in December & January. 11 days of action for NR, and 8 days plus overtime / Rest Day ban for TOC, plus some TOCs had additional action. What did that achieve, other than lose people thousands of pounds?

That 8 days I imagine is the reason we've had no strike action from the RMT this month.

I think action short of strike would be more effective personally.

 

[Alex1971]

Yes, albeit there are some legalities to check.

Felixstowe Port imposed their pay deal recently.

I imagine if TSSA again agree their balott on the NR offer Tim & co will be looking into this, I know a few colleagues have jumped ship from the RMT to TSSA as they feel they have no voice in the RMT as the changes to T&C's does not impact them, plus they are sick of seeing overtime being invented for maintenance staff to cover there strike day loses, and worst of all, bogus rest days being signed off.

 

[Meerkat]

That 8 days I imagine is the reason we've had no strike action from the RMT this month.

I think action short of strike would be more effective personally.

What action would that be?
If its overtime and rest day working isnt there a danger that the DfT just cuts services back to a level where it isnt needed and the biggest losers are the staff who wanted/needed the extra money?

 

[Thirteen]

I imagine if TSSA again agree their balott on the NR offer Tim & co will be looking into this, I know a few colleagues have jumped ship from the RMT to TSSA as they feel they have no voice in the RMT as the changes to T&C's does not impact them, plus they are sick of seeing overtime being invented for maintenance staff to cover there strike day loses, and worst of all, bogus rest days being signed off.

I'm surprised TSSA is still intact considering all the news that have emerged this week.