SSR resignalling

[ijmad]

As the driver has a countdown timer it is possible to close the doors before the ready-to-depart white lights appear, resulting in a very prompt departure.

Interesting, makes sense!

 

[Robski_]

Has the ATO been adjusted recently in SMA 4? Trains now don't do that thing where they slow right down and then slowly creep up to the stop marker, they now stop on the mark without any coasting.

 

[Railperf]

There is definitley a small creep for appx 1 to 2 secs before stopping. And then at least 2.5 secs delay in door opening. I noted manually driving - drivers can brake harder even on open air sections and almost instantly open the doors.

Another milestone finally reached, SMA 5 authorised for passenger use from 0900 today, has been running without passengers since 1220 yesterday.

SMA 6 Stepney Green-Becontree likely for 18-19 June 2022

Is SMA 6 target date still accurate?

 

[Dstock7080]

There is definitley a small creep for appx 1 to 2 secs before stopping. And then at least 2.5 secs delay in door opening. I noted manually driving - drivers can brake harder even on open air sections and almost instantly open the doors.


Is SMA 6 target date still accurate?

initially delayed until 30 October, now 14-15 January 2023

 

[bluegoblin7]

Is SMA 6 target date still accurate?

No. SMA 6 not likely to go in before 2023 now.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This is slightly disappointing, what is the delay?

 

[Dstock7080]

This is slightly disappointing, what is the delay?

A software issue was created at commissioning of SMA 5 at the VCC boundaries and Thales require extra time to solve the issue.

 

[Domh245]

A software issue was created at commissioning of SMA 5 at the VCC boundaries and Thales require extra time to solve the issue.

Was that behind the (continuing?) issues with "faulty trains" around the earls court area that kept cropping up and taking out a lot of the SSL?

 

[Railperf]

Seems to be a slower departure speed at Finchley Road southbound compared to before.
I also note most of the signalling hardware appears to be in place up to Amersham now including new lineside signals (bagged over). I'm guessing those signals will be solely for Chiltern use?

 

[bluegoblin7]

There is a temporary speed restriction in place on departure from Finchley Road southbound for reliability reasons - this will remain until SM8 is commissioned and Finchley Road is no longer a signalling boundary.

Lineside signals will be provided north of Harrow on the Hill (Main Lines only) and west of Rayners Lane for 'alien' trains - that is, anything without CBTC equipment. This will include Chiltern Railways and Piccadilly line services, but could also (theoretically) extend to heritage operations, provided that the vehicles are fitted with tripcock equipment.

 

[ijmad]

Lineside signals will be provided north of Harrow on the Hill (Main Lines only) and west of Rayners Lane for 'alien' trains - that is, anything without CBTC equipment. This will include Chiltern Railways and Piccadilly line services, but could also (theoretically) extend to heritage operations, provided that the vehicles are fitted with tripcock equipment.

I'm looking forward to operating my handcar up and down to Uxbridge, so long as the system thinks I'm a 73ts I'll be fine right?

 

[Railperf]

There is a temporary speed restriction in place on departure from Finchley Road southbound for reliability reasons - this will remain until SM8 is commissioned and Finchley Road is no longer a signalling boundary.

Lineside signals will be provided north of Harrow on the Hill (Main Lines only) and west of Rayners Lane for 'alien' trains - that is, anything without CBTC equipment. This will include Chiltern Railways and Piccadilly line services, but could also (theoretically) extend to heritage operations, provided that the vehicles are fitted with tripcock equipment.

I take it SMA's 8 and 13 for the met will now be delayed until 2023 then? That's a long time for the new assets to be unused.

 

[Dstock7080]

I take it SMA's 8 and 13 for the met will now be delayed until 2023 then?

SMA 8 possibly July 2023
SMA 13 possibly April 2024

 

[Railperf]

SMA 8 possibly July 2023
SMA 13 possibly April 2024

Ouch..that's a fair wait...assuming the 6, 7 and all those in between go to plan.

 

[Mojo]

You misinterpret what is said, the blue destination indicators are listed and are being reconfigured to work with the new signalling system and are temporarily covered to show this.
The “first train out” displays are not listed and that information will be on the new displays provided, I doubt that those will return to working condition.

FWIW it seems that the blue destination indicators have been reinstated at Earls Court recently, I saw a photo on Twitter yesterday (https://twitter.com/nickmacpherson2/status/1542564195333554182) showing the indicator on Eastbound Platform 1 at Earls Court. The lightbox above it indicating "First train out" is also illuminated in the picture.

It seems to use a heavier font compared to the most recent iteration, together with the removal of Mansion House; although Embankment and West Ham have been added. Edgware Road is now listed on its own, rather than prefixed with "High St. Kensington and." The rather quaint and old fashioned STOPS HERE has been replaced with NOT IN SERVICE.

 

[AlbertBeale]

FWIW it seems that the blue destination indicators have been reinstated at Earls Court recently, I saw a photo on Twitter yesterday (https://twitter.com/nickmacpherson2/status/1542564195333554182) showing the indicator on Eastbound Platform 1 at Earls Court. The lightbox above it indicating "First train out" is also illuminated in the picture.

It seems to use a heavier font compared to the most recent iteration, together with the removal of Mansion House; although Embankment and West Ham have been added. Edgware Road is now listed on its own, rather than prefixed with "High St. Kensington and." The rather quaint and old fashioned STOPS HERE has been replaced with NOT IN SERVICE.

It's great that they're back, quite well renovated. My first thought was that the photo showed Platform 2, not 1, but then I realised I was conceptualising it as though facing in the direction of travel, whilst the photo is clearly facing west. Yes - the font seems a bit too heavy in some cases, as though they've tried to fill up the full width of the box, and fattened the font to do so (to the extent possible), rather than just centring shorter names and letting there be a bit of a gap at each end. This makes them look somewhat inconsistent with how they were before the recent resignalling; but maybe they've had various slightly different styles of typeface over the years anyway, and hence perhaps the latest one is true to an earlier version?

 

[swt_passenger]

It's great that they're back, quite well renovated. My first thought was that the photo showed Platform 2, not 1, but then I realised I was conceptualising it as though facing in the direction of travel, whilst the photo is clearly facing west. Yes - the font seems a bit too heavy in some cases, as though they've tried to fill up the full width of the box, and fattened the font to do so (to the extent possible), rather than just centring shorter names and letting there be a bit of a gap at each end. This makes them look somewhat inconsistent with how they were before the recent resignalling; but maybe they've had various slightly different styles of typeface over the years anyway, and hence perhaps the latest one is true to an earlier version?

There’s a few old photos around such as a pre-WW2 one on the London transport museum site, (link below) and on that example they go both ways, with “High St. (Ken)” on one side allowing for larger letters, but also “High Street (Ken) & Edgware Road ” squeezed in on a two line section in very small letters.

B/W print; Earls Court Underground station, District and Piccadilly lines by Topical Press, Jul 1939 | London Transport Museum

b/w print

www.ltmuseum.co.uk

 

[AlbertBeale]

There’s a few old photos around such as a pre-WW2 one on the London transport museum site, (link below) and on that example they go both ways, with “High St. (Ken)” on one side allowing for larger letters, but also “High Street (Ken) & Edgware Road ” squeezed in on a two line section in very small letters.

B/W print; Earls Court Underground station, District and Piccadilly lines by Topical Press, Jul 1939 | London Transport Museum

b/w print

www.ltmuseum.co.uk

Thanks - fascinating ... it seems they really have varied the typeface proportions over the years, mostly according to what they wanted to show, rather than using the/a standard typeface. And the different selection of destinations is fascinating - no Tower Hill in the pre-WW2 era shown in this pic; but Whitechapel and Bow Road. I was brought up [though post-WW2!] to believe that only the Met, as then was, turned back at Whitechapel; but east of the centre wasn't on my normal routes, so there could have been post-war journey patterns at times that I was never aware of.

 

[tomuk]

Can we have this sign back too.

B/W print; A train describer at Earls Court Underground station, Piccadilly line, platform 6 by Topical Press, 31 Dec 1934 | London Transport Museum

b/w print

www.ltmuseum.co.uk

The link is to a picture held by the LT Museum of a Picadilly Line next train indicator at Earl's Court

 

[Snow1964]

Doesn’t seem to be an open thread on Piccadilly line modernisation but as this overlaps will put it here.

Costain has been appointed by Transport for London (TfL) to design critical upgrades to the signalling infrastructure on the Piccadilly line to improve passenger journeys across the capital.

As design partner, we will work collaboratively with TfL’s design team to ensure that the signalling system in West London between Heathrow Airport and Baron’s Court is compatible with both the existing London Underground trains and the new fleet of 24TS passenger trains, which will enter service in 2025.

As part of the commission, which came through TfL’s Professional Services Framework, we will conduct a series of surveys to inform the design process for around 200 existing signals. This will ensure that train drivers of both the current and new trains know when they can safely proceed.

The surveys will include ecological, environmental, ground condition and contamination, structural integrity, buried services (utilities), line level and track clearance assessments. During the design phase, our team will use automated tools and standardised processes to enhance accuracy, effectiveness and productivity.

Costain to design vital upgrades to the Piccadilly line

Costain has been appointed by Transport for London (TfL) to design critical upgrades to the signalling infrastructure on the Piccadilly line to improve passenger journeys across the capital.

specificationonline.co.uk

 

[Snow1964]

The latest TfL Board papers (programmes and Investment) are now published and there is some sort of problem with new SSR resignalling that requires new software to be installed in November

4.5 Since commissioning SMA5 in March 2022, the underlying system performance has been good, but a specific software issue required fixing. To introduce further improvements to the existing sections in service, an additional software update will be implemented in November 2022 prior to the next SMA going live. Our schedule for future signal migration areas going live has therefore been reviewed and we now expect SMA6 and SMA7 (both covering the eastern end of the District line) to go live in the first quarter of 2023. The final section of signalling, SMA14 (Rayners Lane to Uxbridge), is expected to go live between spring and autumn 2025.

section 4.9 goes onto say the reliable 32 trains per hour in central London is going to have to wait until summer 2025 when Aldgate junction is remodelled

* Achievement of a reliable 32tph service level is also dependent on the renewal and remodelling of Aldgate Junction which is planned for summer 2025

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s18265/pic-20220720-item10a-4LM.pdf

 

[AlbertBeale]

The latest TfL Board papers (programmes and Investment) are now published and there is some sort of problem with new SSR resignalling that requires new software to be installed in November



section 4.9 goes onto say the reliable 32 trains per hour in central London is going to have to wait until summer 2025 when Aldgate junction is remodelled

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s18265/pic-20220720-item10a-4LM.pdf

What are the plans for the Aldgate junctions then? I'd have thought it can't be simplified, given the various movements needed. I'm not sure what other layout is feasible.

Or is it just that some of the junctions will be "re-laid" to allow higher speeds?

 

[Snow1964]

What are the plans for the Aldgate junctions then? I'd have thought it can't be simplified, given the various movements needed. I'm not sure what other layout is feasible.

Or is it just that some of the junctions will be "re-laid" to allow higher speeds?

Absolutely no idea what plan is, first time I have ever seen any reference to it in a public document. Similarly don’t think I have ever seen the 2025 date for completion of SMA14 (the final section of signal upgrades) published before.

Is there any obsolete signal cabins or relay rooms etc at Aldgate that could be removed to give more space that would allow a faster layout.

 

[Basil Jet]

What are the plans for the Aldgate junctions then? I'd have thought it can't be simplified, given the various movements needed. I'm not sure what other layout is feasible.

Or is it just that some of the junctions will be "re-laid" to allow higher speeds?

Maybe because the S-Stock is narrower than the A-stock, there may be room to create a faster layout.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Rationalisation and renewal at Aldgate itself is my understanding. It’s a particularly complex layout with some duplication in point work. Whilst this does provide alternative routes and enabled an increased capacity/throughput under legacy signalling, the modern CBTC system negates these benefits creating a maintenance liability. One set of switches at Aldgate in particular is rather unique and is somewhat of a liability when it fails.

Rationalisation isn’t always a good thing, but my gut feeling is that around Aldgate it would have a net benefit.

 

[Recessio]

Absolutely no idea what plan is, first time I have ever seen any reference to it in a public document. Similarly don’t think I have ever seen the 2025 date for completion of SMA14 (the final section of signal upgrades) published before.

Is there any obsolete signal cabins or relay rooms etc at Aldgate that could be removed to give more space that would allow a faster layout.

Will the completion of SMA14 mean the entire sub-surface lines are using the new signalling?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Rationalisation and renewal at Aldgate itself is my understanding. It’s a particularly complex layout with some duplication in point work. Whilst this does provide alternative routes and enabled an increased capacity/throughput under legacy signalling, the modern CBTC system negates these benefits creating a maintenance liability. One set of switches at Aldgate in particular is rather unique and is somewhat of a liability when it fails.

Rationalisation isn’t always a good thing, but my gut feeling is that around Aldgate it would have a net benefit.

Thanks for this information. I'd love to know more details of which bits might change... Are there any track diagrams showing the proposals?

 

[Dstock7080]

Will the completion of SMA14 mean the entire sub-surface lines are using the new signalling?

As mentioned up thread, SMA 11 has been descoped and SMAs 10 & 12 have been shortened:
10 Barons Court-Stamford Brook
11-Chiswick Park-Ealing Broadway
12 Fulham Broadway-East Putney
these are likely to be done after SMA 14 is commissioned.

 

[Recessio]

As mentioned up thread, SMA 11 has been descoped and SMAs 10 & 12 have been shortened:
10 Barons Court-Stamford Brook
11-Chiswick Park-Ealing Broadway
12 Fulham Broadway-East Putney
these are likely to be done after SMA 14 is commissioned.

Cheers, thank you. Will these de scopes have a major impact on tph? I guess these are quite out of the way on the branches, and the junctions are at least under new signalling?

 

[Mojo]

Cheers, thank you. Will these de scopes have a major impact on tph? I guess these are quite out of the way on the branches, and the junctions are at least under new signalling?

The report linked to in post #291 says it will not, as the legacy signalling is perfectly capable of delivering the required TPH