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SSR resignalling

Snow1964

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10-Barons Court-Chiswick Park/Richmond
11-Chiswick Park-Ealing Broadway
12-Fulham Broadway-Wimbledon.

All of the Met remains in scope at this stage.

There is further information in the TfL Board papers
see pages 29-35 of link

It seems the papers are approving extra funds (no details as they are in section 2 the non public part)

4.6) The 30 trains per hour timetable now May 2023

4.15) sections of District south of East Putney and west of Stamford Brook won’t now be done (which suggests parts of SMA 10, 12 above are now back in)

4.16) Is about Metropolitan line branches, where signalling is older and would cost more to try and maintain existing than complete the work

 
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Dstock7080

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Funding was approved for the part commissioning of SMA 10 and 12 which was applied for in February 2021.
SMA 10 will now be Barons Court-Stamford Brook
SMA 12 Fulham Broadway-East Putney
Extending the CBTC signalling area and including a Radio Island is cheaper than the Do Minimum, because of the cost of maintaining outdated signalling equipment. Adding the Radio Island maximises project synergy and generates more benefit. It is closest to the original 4LM vision of creating a modern railway and puts the customer at the heart.
A considerable amount of work had already been completed on SMAs 10-12 prior to the descope decision. A CBTC extension would recoup much of these sunk costs.
 

Snow1964

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A supplementary paper for tomorrows Programmes and Investment Committee has been issued

Per page 48 (as numbered), pack page 50 the SMA05 (Sloane Square - Fulham Broadway, Barons Court, Kensington (Olympia), Paddington (circle) implementation date is now 9th January 2022, which is different to planned date 20th February 2022

However page 11, pack page 13 says this section will go live later this year. So unless January 2022 is now part of this year it’s rather unclear

 

Dstock7080

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A supplementary paper for tomorrows Programmes and Investment Committee has been issued

Per page 48 (as numbered), pack page 50 the SMA05 (Sloane Square - Fulham Broadway, Barons Court, Kensington (Olympia), Paddington (circle) implementation date is now 9th January 2022, which is different to planned date 20th February 2022

However page 11, pack page 13 says this section will go live later this year. So unless January 2022 is now part of this year it’s rather unclear
SMA 5 was to be 6/7 November.
 

Dstock7080

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From Sat 4 September at Hammersmith 22A/B and 23A/B points will be plain-lined, thus preventing eastbound local trains access to the fast (Picc) line and eastbound fast trains access to the eastbound local (District).

Piccadilly trains departing Acton Town platform 4 must not accept WL106 route 1 (EB local)
District trains departing Acton Town platform 4 must not accept WL106 route 2 (EB fast) to Hammersmith
District trains can be reversed via Barons Court sidings in extreme circumstances.
 

rebmcr

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From Sat 4 September at Hammersmith 22A/B and 23A/B points will be plain-lined, thus preventing eastbound local trains access to the fast (Picc) line and eastbound fast trains access to the eastbound local (District).

Piccadilly trains departing Acton Town platform 4 must not accept WL106 route 1 (EB local)
District trains departing Acton Town platform 4 must not accept WL106 route 2 (EB fast) to Hammersmith
District trains can be reversed via Barons Court sidings in extreme circumstances.
Expanding on your previous annotation, have I correctly identified 22?

Also, presumably 26's counterpart closer to the platforms at Hammersmith is nearing the chop?
 

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Dstock7080

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Expanding on your previous annotation, have I correctly identified 22?

Also, presumably 26's counterpart closer to the platforms at Hammersmith is nearing the chop?
22A/B correctly identified
17 points on the westbound approach to Hammersmith were scheduled to be removed first but as yet no timeframe
51388353858_921a17ce87_o.jpg
 
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Snow1964

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Dstock7080

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Another milestone finally reached, SMA 5 authorised for passenger use from 0900 today, has been running without passengers since 1220 yesterday.

SMA 6 Stepney Green-Becontree likely for 18-19 June 2022
 

thomalex

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All working well although sad to see the demise of the next train indicator arrows at Earl’s Court
 

Dstock7080

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All working well although sad to see the demise of the next train indicator arrows at Earl’s Court
Only temporarily until they’re reconfigured for CBTC signalling feed.
The “first train out” indicators on platforms 1&2 unlikely to come back, info on the new displays.
 
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ijmad

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Good to know they will be back. Aren't they listed heritage or something?
 

Taunton

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Only temporarily until they’re reconfigured for CBTC signalling feed.
The “next train out” indicators on platforms 1&2 unlikely to come back, info on the new displays.
Well the information may well be on a new display in some form, but they are indeed officially Listed Structures, so can't be removed, or, to use the wording from the legislation, "altered". I suspect the Conservation Officer of Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea, responsible for this aspect, might have something to say about keeping them working as originally listed.

Surely it's not beyond the wit of the signal engineers to make them all work interfacing with the new equipment. It would be a good project for signal engineer apprentices and trainees.
 

Dstock7080

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Well the information may well be on a new display in some form, but they are indeed officially Listed Structures, so can't be removed, or, to use the wording from the legislation, "altered". I suspect the Conservation Officer of Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea, responsible for this aspect, might have something to say about keeping them working as originally listed.

Surely it's not beyond the wit of the signal engineers to make them all work interfacing with the new equipment. It would be a good project for signal engineer apprentices and trainees.
You misinterpret what is said, the blue destination indicators are listed and are being reconfigured to work with the new signalling system and are temporarily covered to show this.
The “first train out” displays are not listed and that information will be on the new displays provided, I doubt that those will return to working condition.
 
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AlbertBeale

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You misinterpret what is said, the blue destination indicators are listed and are being reconfigured to work with the new signalling system and are temporarily covered to show this.
The “next train out” displays are not listed and that information will be on the new displays provided, I doubt that those will return to working condition.

Are the "next train out" displays totally separate from the lovely old indicators with arrows? (I can't picture them now.) When you say that information will be incorporated on the new displays, do you mean on the newly reconnected historic ones? Or on new-fangled destination display which duplicate the old "proper" ones.
 

Dstock7080

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Are the "next train out" displays totally separate from the lovely old indicators with arrows? (I can't picture them now.) When you say that information will be incorporated on the new displays, do you mean on the newly reconnected historic ones? Or on new-fangled destination display which duplicate the old "proper" ones.
2B6B3DA6-6A26-402A-B0C8-D9867881BC51.jpeg
The “first train out” boxes are above the historic 1908 District Railway displays, and only lit up when two trains towards Gloucester Road were in the platform.
The new dot-matrix indicators switched on on Saturday are further along each platform.
 
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AlbertBeale

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View attachment 112120
The “next train out” boxes are above the historic 1908 District Railway displays, and only lit up when two trains towards Gloucester Road were in the platform.
The new dot-matrix indicators switched on on Saturday are further along each platform.

Thanks for this!

So the "next train" indicator was "with" the old indicators, but not technically part of them, and so needn't be reactivated with the old indicators when they're connected to the new signalling system.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the "use other indicators" signs are in the right style! I suppose that's a sign that we can trust promises to reinstate them when the wiring's sorted out!
 

Dstock7080

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Thanks for this!

So the "next train" indicator was "with" the old indicators, but not technically part of them, and so needn't be reactivated with the old indicators when they're connected to the new signalling system.
They were added in the mid-80s I recall.
 

Dstock7080

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Then I think removing them would be a good thing, restore the heritage signs to pristine appearance!
Bit of a “Trigger’s Broom” scenario, they only had true Johnston font since refurbishment in 2010, prior to that Gill Sans condensed (1960s-2010), in the 1940s/50s yellow/black non-stopping plates were also used. 1910s/20s/30s black on white was used!
Restore to when?!
 

AlbertBeale

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They were added in the mid-80s I recall.
Then I think removing them would be a good thing, restore the heritage signs to pristine appearance!

Maybe for a lot of people 40-ish years back IS heritage! But I take your point.

Bit of a “Trigger’s Broom” scenario, they only had true Johnston font since refurbishment in 2010, prior to that Gill Sans condensed (1960s-2010), in the 1940s/50s yellow/black non-stopping plates were also used. 1910s/20s/30s black on white was used!
Restore to when?!

Though even if colour etc changed from time to time, the essential design and the way they displayed the information is certainly historic! I doubt many people alive now would remember the colours used in the 1910s-1930s, so the white on blue (as for the last 90 years) seems reasonable to keep.
 

ijmad

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On the Eastbound island, I've seen a lot of regular commuters watch for the signal changing to decide what train to get on. I suppose this information will now be on the DMIs. But I guess also, you could watch for the while lights above the train doors.
 

AlbertBeale

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On the Eastbound island, I've seen a lot of regular commuters watch for the signal changing to decide what train to get on. I suppose this information will now be on the DMIs. But I guess also, you could watch for the while lights above the train doors.

Not only regular commuters! As a very occasional user of Earls Court, I've instinctively kept an eye on the signal colour if there were two trains platformed at the same time which were leaving in the same direction (even if it wasn't the direction I was going in, just out of interest). This (simultaneous services on adjacent platforms) is quite common for trains heading east to Gloucester Road etc, but only occasionally happens with two trains going towards High St Ken (presumably when an Olympia to High St is in at the same time as a Wimbledon to Edgware Road, when the Olympia shuttle is running).

So - a question. The old "first train out" sign, above the historic indicator (as discussed above) did, I think, only inform you about which of two eastbounds to board, and didn't do the same thing with two parallel trains both turning north. Will that be the same with the "first train" information on the new dot matrix signs? Any reason why the new technology can't do the same for both routes? (Though I hope it doesn't show the "first train out" all the time, even when the next trains on the indicator [or at the platform] are for different directions; that would probably be confusing for unwary visitors, who might just think that information took precedence over the exact destination - if they weren't going far - and head to the "first train" when it isn't going their way.)
 

Dstock7080

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So - a question. The old "first train out" sign, above the historic indicator (as discussed above) did, I think, only inform you about which of two eastbounds to board, and didn't do the same thing with two parallel trains both turning north.
Yes, only for departures towards Gloucester Road.
 

Peter Mugridge

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On the Eastbound island, I've seen a lot of regular commuters watch for the signal changing to decide what train to get on. I suppose this information will now be on the DMIs. But I guess also, you could watch for the while lights above the train doors.
Whenever I've seen the white lights illuminate, they've only flashed up for about five seconds at the most; there simply wouldn't be time for anyone on the platform to react...
 

ijmad

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Whenever I've seen the white lights illuminate, they've only flashed up for about five seconds at the most; there simply wouldn't be time for anyone on the platform to react...

Yeah fair, in some places it seems the white lights show for a bit longer before the doors close (driver waiting for something, perhaps) but at Earls Court I imagine everything has to run to time.
 

Dstock7080

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Whenever I've seen the white lights illuminate, they've only flashed up for about five seconds at the most; there simply wouldn't be time for anyone on the platform to react..
Yeah fair, in some places it seems the white lights show for a bit longer before the doors close (driver waiting for something, perhaps) but at Earls Court I imagine everything has to run to time.
As the driver has a countdown timer it is possible to close the doors before the ready-to-depart white lights appear, resulting in a very prompt departure.
 

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