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Th 21/10/21 IET hits PW Trolley left on line near Challow
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alxndr
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My apprentice took mine off me, it’s got a horrible habit of jumping out my pockets (absolutely nothing to do with all the other stuff I keep in there… oh crikey, I really have become my first teamleader…)Even more unlikely I'd be carrying it as you can tell! I'll stick to carrying the Fluke thanks.
pdeaves
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Oh, I totally understand the line clear verification (LCV) process wasn't done as it should have been. I was thinking on a more basic level, 'why is there no trolley on the back of the lorry'? How could everyone miss that?
Issues with P-Way work & PICOP/ES/COSS communication on site have been cropping up in RAIB reports (including contractor fatalities) for the past 4-5 years. Alongside vegetation / weather related issues, its probably one of the biggest safety risks right now for NR.
td97
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Working from height is also a big one of late. A contractor fell into a river a few weeks ago and there were the cowboys at Paddington in late summer using mobile scaffolding like it was gymnastic apperatus
This, and the Challow incident, all sounds like human factors. Unless there is anyone there to call you out on corner cutting, you'll get away with it until something goes wrong. "Who needs to spend the extra time putting the fall harness on?" "Who cares if I fill out the end of possession paperwork at the start so we can all get away a few minutes earlier?"
There can be as many procedures as you like, but if there is no active checking that these are complied with, they are useless.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Reading this thread reminds me of a Southern Region Internal Inquiry report into a collision between a train and a trolley back in the mid 1980s under BR.
There had been a Western Region possession at Southcote Junction and a trolley had ‘escaped’ down the gradient towards Mortimer, crossing the regional boundary in the process. With the balkanised silo mentality of the era nobody on the Western alerted the Southern. So the first Reading-Basingstoke train ‘discovered’ it.
Sadly there is nothing new about sloppy railway engineering work processes.
There had been a Western Region possession at Southcote Junction and a trolley had ‘escaped’ down the gradient towards Mortimer, crossing the regional boundary in the process. With the balkanised silo mentality of the era nobody on the Western alerted the Southern. So the first Reading-Basingstoke train ‘discovered’ it.
Sadly there is nothing new about sloppy railway engineering work processes.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Both the COSS & ES should have been aware that a trolley had been used if the process was being followed and the PICOP should ask whether all forms have been completed relevant to the works although the PICOP can't second guess whats actually happening. Unfortunately as RAIB hasn't elected to investigate this one we will be unlikely to ever find out as NR doesn't publish its own internal investigations. In respect of Human Factors both NR and Railtrack before have moved this area a heck of long way from where it was in BR but there is still an inherent male culture that sees challenge as a sign of weakness and not the done thing ie keep your head down especially with the zero hour contractors although its not clear whether this was an NR team at Challow. Its not limited to the rail industry either but exists across civil construction as well although lets be clear there have been massive improvements.
Trog
Established Member
I remember hearing of some welders who were pushing a trolley on a Midland Mainline work site in the 1980's, walking behind the trolley and giving it a push walking until they caught up with it then giving it another push. Until they gave it a push but did not catch up with it, strange..... Apparently the block road man was walking back to his van when he heard something coming out of the darkness and stood out. Just in time to see a loaded welding trolley wizz past him and out of the possession. The welders punishment, pushing the trolley back up the gradient to site.
PG
Established Member
I'm wondering if, since NR is a public body, a FOI request could be used to elicit the results of the internal investigation(s)?
Anyone feel like giving it a try...
What makes you think that?
There is nothing on their website. If they were going to investigate it would be on there by now.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
This event was well before Salisbury and given they have another trolley incident under investigation on 8/9/21 at Twickenham which will be a safety digest they may include this one as well.
backontrack
Established Member
Now this is a genuine fear of mine.
"Management is distracted, punctuality goes to pot, safety slips. When you reorganise you bleed. Don't reorganise. Don't, don't, don't".
- Gerry Fiennes, of course.
Elecman
Established Member
And so very very true!!
if this is true then the lax attitude needs to be clamped down on before there is a major accident which kills many people (Salisbury had the potential to be that)
Of course i appreciate that many lessons were learnt after Clapham Junction, Ladbroke Grove, Hatfield, Southall, Potters Bar etc etc, but it only takes a piece of equipment failure or human error or even bad luck for there to be an accident which results in fatalaties.
Elecman
Established Member
As a senior Network Rail Emgineer said a couple of years ago or so it’s not a case of If but When the next serious accident occurs as the drumbeat of incidents I’d quickening
I'm afraid this is utter wibble. The daily roles of most railway staff have not changed in any notable way since the Williams
No-one is getting lax; these are simply a number of unconnected incidents which have happened to occur in a similar timeframe.
To be fair, given the number of incidents and near misses involving P-way personnel in recent years, I'm not sure how certain we can be about that statement?
Ah, but there is a difference between being lax and getting lax!
Yes they have been going up and its a problem area however I'm not sure this can be linked to GBR or Williams-Shaps review.
This is true!!
alxndr
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Indeed, it feels to me as though its been happening for longer than the announcement of GBR. That said, in my case it could be a bit of Baader-Meinhoff phenomenon. I did run the numbers once, but I've forgotten if I discovered anything now!
Presumably the Enfield buffer collision but I can't see how it is at all relevant.
Indeed. There are a range of external organisations bringing in blue hats right now and often the chit chat i've seen during downtime from trainers has been very much about how great it can be to get in an industry where the culture for many simply is job and knock. There's a potential for breeding complacency in new starters when they see it as a great opportunity to cut corners in order to finish early while getting paid for a full shift.
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Nicholas Lewis
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Agreed but a risk coming over the horizon is how the voluntary severance scheme is managed in ensuring that the release of personnel doesn't create an experience and competence gap.
TOCs and NR have to ensure that, if granting VSS, there is no subsequent impact on safety or 'operational performance' (something like that). The roles can't be replaced so safety critical S&T / P-way roles eem unlikely to be impacted very heavily. That being said there is a risk if it is disproportionately older / more experiecned colleagues who take it up as well as the increasing desire to out-source track work to contractors.
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