Train drivers offered pay rise in bid to end strikes

[Nicholas Lewis]

I'd be very surprised if that 'offer' even gets put to the members, although most drivers I know would vote to accept in the region of 5 to 6 per cent, dependent on conditions attached. Nobody is seriously expecting a rise in line with inflation.

If i was the govt i would be delighted that staff were prepared to be this reasonable given the headline inflation numbers. Certainly shows the "restraint" that leading govt ministers ask for.

 

[dk1]

Yep same experience here. I suspect a resolution may be closer here than on the RMT side, though, as there’s no “red line” DOO type issue.

They sounded understandably peeved in this afternoons email after the meeting with RDG & Co.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unlike RMT, ASLEF can’t pull the whole “it’s not just about greedy well-paid train drivers” card, and therefore I imagine would start to irritate the public far quicker, even with the enormously dislikeable Lynch at RMT’s helm.

 

[cactustwirly]

Unlike RMT, ASLEF can’t pull the whole “it’s not just about greedy well-paid train drivers” card, and therefore I imagine would start to irritate the public far quicker, even with the enormously dislikeable Lynch at RMT’s helm.

Obviously it's very different if you're a Southeastern driver who doesn't get paid much, compared to a LNER or EMR driver who are on 70k!

 

[TreacleMiller]

I'd be very surprised if that 'offer' even gets put to the members, although most drivers I know would vote to accept in the region of 5 to 6 per cent, dependent on conditions attached. Nobody is seriously expecting a rise in line with inflation.

Yep, id take it as is and that was the response from every driver I talked to today.

 

[Sly Sloth]

Yep, id take it as is and that was the response from every driver I talked to today.

Take out the attached conditions and it’d sail through……but some of the conditions such as Sundays in the working week and the ability to move drivers to different depots all over the network to fill gaps in the roster will kibosh and deal

 

[dk1]

Take out the attached conditions and it’d sail through……but some of the conditions such as Sundays in the working week and the ability to move drivers to different depots all over the network to fill gaps in the roster will kibosh and deal

Trouble is that without a substantial increase to lose some better conditions, nobody will agree. Same here with harmonisation of drivers at my TOC. Was first tried in 2005 & we are still operating on 3 separate terms, conditions & salary.

 

[baz962]

Obviously it's very different if you're a Southeastern driver who doesn't get paid much, compared to a LNER or EMR driver who are on 70k!

Er. What now. EMR aren't even over 60k

 

[TreacleMiller]

Take out the attached conditions and it’d sail through……but some of the conditions such as Sundays in the working week and the ability to move drivers to different depots all over the network to fill gaps in the roster will kibosh and deal

Not if your Sundays are already inside the working week.

Training issue isn't a sticking point but rostering would be I think based on today's talk.

The general feel in the room today was "that will do", but appreciate TOCs with better terms but lower pay than mine will see it differently.

 

[Mainsideman]

They sounded understandably peeved in this afternoons email after the meeting with RDG & Co.

This RMT side? I recieved no email if so?

 

[dk1]

This RMT side? I recieved no email if so?

No ASLEF mate.

 

[800001]

It all seems pretty quite on the news front from both Unions and the government, twitter quite as well.

Are they still talking? Or has it all finished for the day?

 

[dk1]

It all seems pretty quite on the news front from both Unions and the government, twitter quite as well.

Are they still talking? Or has it all finished for the day?

Only lasted an hour from what I read. ASLEF referred to the RDGs way of leaking news to the press last Friday as utterly reprehensible.

 

[XIX7007177]

Take out the attached conditions and it’d sail through……but some of the conditions such as Sundays in the working week and the ability to move drivers to different depots all over the network to fill gaps in the roster will kibosh and deal

Read more like committed Sundays rather than Sundays inside.

 

[800001]

Only lasted an hour from what I read. ASLEF referred to the RDGs way of leaking news to the press last Friday as utterly reprehensible.

Ah, thanks. Seems quieter than previous discussions.

 

[dk1]

Ah, thanks. Seems quieter than previous discussions.

Most welcome. Comes across as rather a non-event.

 

[choochoochoo]

Unlike RMT, ASLEF can’t pull the whole “it’s not just about greedy well-paid train drivers” card, and therefore I imagine would start to irritate the public far quicker, even with the enormously dislikeable Lynch at RMT’s helm.

The public don’t like drivers already. The media and government rhetoric have already seen to that.

 

[CE142]

So you either make do with what you're on or move to the more expensive TOC?

And what happens once all the vacancies are taken at that TOC? Not everyone can move to the TOCs that pay the most for various reasons.

 

[dk1]

The public don’t like drivers already. The media and government rhetoric have already seen to that.

We have VERY broad shoulders

 

[Thirteen]

Unlike RMT, ASLEF can’t pull the whole “it’s not just about greedy well-paid train drivers” card, and therefore I imagine would start to irritate the public far quicker, even with the enormously dislikeable Lynch at RMT’s helm.

I dunno, Mick Whelan comes across a lot more reasonable than Mick Lynch in interviews and he's well aware that drivers get paid well.

 

[Facing Back]

Yep same experience here. I suspect a resolution may be closer here than on the RMT side, though, as there’s no “red line” DOO type issue.

I wonder why there is no discussion of DOO with the drivers. If the DfT are serious about a longer term expansion of it they will need presumably need ASLEF to have agreed - or go into another round of dispute - as well as the RMT. If they are going to have an all out fight why would they not get it all out of the way in one go - win or lose?

Unless it is a red herring with the RMT?

 

[Gorlash1886]

DOO will probably be inserted at the last minute to scupper any deal. .........again

 

[Facing Back]

DOO will probably be inserted at the last minute to scupper any deal. .........again

That was my cynical concern. But I am choosing to believe that will not be the case. I'm still not sure what happened with the RMT deal - I know the overwhelming view here seems to be as you have described but that seems to me to to be such a poor negotiating move I don't really believe it.

 

[43066]

I wonder why there is no discussion of DOO with the drivers. If the DfT are serious about a longer term expansion of it they will need presumably need ASLEF to have agreed - or go into another round of dispute - as well as the RMT. If they are going to have an all out fight why would they not get it all out of the way in one go - win or lose?

Unless it is a red herring with the RMT?

Yes that’s a good point. It doesn’t really make any sense, unless (as many of us suspect) the intention was to prevent the RMT reaching a deal.

DOO will probably be inserted at the last minute to scupper any deal. .........again

Possibly. Albeit harder for them to do that this time as they’ve been so public about the “base line” offered to drivers.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I dunno, Mick Whelan comes across a lot more reasonable than Mick Lynch in interviews and he's well aware that drivers get paid well.

That’s what I said

 

[Buffer stop]

I don't think they need to add DOO to scupper thus deal..

 

[geoffk]

some of the conditions such as Sundays in the working week and the ability to move drivers to different depots all over the network to fill gaps in the roster will kibosh and deal

I thought the unions wanted Sundays in the working week as it will mean more staff and therefore more members. Isn't it the TOCs and DfT who don't want it as it's cheaper to rely on RDW?

 

[dk1]

I thought the unions wanted Sundays in the working week as it will mean more staff and therefore more members. Isn't it the TOCs and DfT who don't want it as it's cheaper to rely on RDW?

Precisely. The DfT are too tight to put their money where their mouth is.

 

[Facing Back]

I thought the unions wanted Sundays in the working week as it will mean more staff and therefore more members. Isn't it the TOCs and DfT who don't want it as it's cheaper to rely on RDW?

thats what I keep reading. But to the general public surely the difference between sundays inside and committed sundays is invisible - in both cases the trains run on Sunday. I thought the TOC offer was likely to turn out to be more aligned with a full roll-out of committed sundays

 

[dk1]

thats what I keep reading. But to the general public surely the difference between sundays inside and committed sundays is invisible - in both cases the trains run on Sunday. I thought the TOC offer was likely to turn out to be more aligned with a full roll-out of committed sundays

It’s complicated enough as it is without letting the general public have a choice or get involved haha.