Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

[WesternLancer]

Come on, you don't expect them to take the easy and simple option now do you!

I suppose advantage the ex EC sets would have had would have also been the fitment of the seat reservation system. Not that, in the current climate, it's needed. And now heading for the bin after what, less than a year, of fitment?

Yes, on paper it looked like a good idea. It may even have been that DfT people had been on an LNER set (to Barnard Castle maybe?) and never been to eg Sheffield so drew conclusions on that basis.

 

[LowLevel]

From what I understand 43302 is still being used by EMR; is it getting a retro repaint for it's last days in service before transfer to the Railway Museum?

https://mobile.twitter.com/HiPa_IC125_/status/1352588371428847617

They were still determined to outshop one set in EMR livery, I wonder if they're doing this one.

 

[Mack91]

They were still determined to outshop one set in EMR livery, I wonder if they're doing this one.

Maybe. I can't help but feel that would be (yet another) waste of money at this stage if it were the case.

 

[DB]

They were still determined to outshop one set in EMR livery, I wonder if they're doing this one.

To what purpose? I could certainly understand them having done that earlier, but seems a waste of time and money now.

 

[WesternLancer]

They were still determined to outshop one set in EMR livery, I wonder if they're doing this one.

Good call - if you only have one decent quality type of train in your fleet - and the only decent type you are ever going to have - you may as well celebrate that!

I expect a marketing person would say it pays dividends by "showcasing the quality of the brand"

 

[43 302]

They were still determined to outshop one set in EMR livery, I wonder if they're doing this one.

It is not being painted into EMR livery.

 

[SteveyBee131]

I would imagine someone who works for the company might have a fairly good idea what the company plans to do.

 

[LowLevel]

I would imagine someone who works for the company might have a fairly good idea what the company plans to do.

If you're referring to me it is simply a guess on my part without specific knowledge - as of a few weeks ago they were still keen to put one set in the outgoing livery but that may have been pre the cull that happened at the weekend.

Quite happy to stand corrected in this case!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If the DfT can agree dispensations for PRM compliance, then something similar could be done for SDO.

All the alternatives to what has actually been done would have been easier. As usual, DfT took the most stupid and expensive option.

PRM is up to DfT to derogate. SDO is up to the ORR and it’s been clear one a vehicle looses its grandfather rights that is it. Safety isn’t so easy (rightly) to dispense against.

 

[43096]

PRM is up to DfT to derogate. SDO is up to the ORR and it’s been clear one a vehicle looses its grandfather rights that is it. Safety isn’t so easy (rightly) to dispense against.

Fit the existing EMR sets with SDO then, still a lot easier and cheaper than what has been done.

 

[Domh245]

Fit the existing EMR sets with SDO then, still a lot easier and cheaper than what has been done.

I dare say the cheapest solution, particularly with the benefit of hindsight & knowing what we know now about the collapse in demand, would have been individual for each passenger unable to be fully accommodated on the existing rakes! Hell, even going by the original schedules (which would have seen all HST gone by end of last year IIRC?) it'd have probably been cheaper to taxi passengers than retrofitting SDO?

 

[43096]

I dare say the cheapest solution, particularly with the benefit of hindsight & knowing what we know now about the collapse in demand, would have been individual for each passenger unable to be fully accommodated on the existing rakes! Hell, even going by the original schedules (which would have seen all HST gone by end of last year IIRC?) it'd have probably been cheaper to taxi passengers than retrofitting SDO?

The SDO mod on slam door HSTs is actually pretty straight-forward. It's a fairly straight forward depot mod - it needs modified CDL panels and a wiring change.

 

[50039]

I seem to have lost track.... I’ve got the latest weekday diagrams (I think, just the 2?), but are there any Saturday workings?

 

[Killingworth]

I seem to have lost track.... I’ve got the latest weekday diagrams (I think, just the 2?), but are there any Saturday workings?

Quoted from EMR Stakeholder briefing issued this afternoon.

"Services running with HSTs – Many of you will be aware that the formation changes made to the Intercity services sees less HSTs being used across our network. This is good news from an accessibility point of view, as you will know, but I do appreciate that the retirement of this fleet is something that is of great interest to rail enthusiasts and that these units are an institution. Please find below the services for which HSTs will be running so that if it suits with your daily exercise, you may be able to spot one as you walk past.
The services are: 0519 Leeds – London. 0634 Leeds – London. 1434 London – Nottingham. 1534 London – Nottingham. 1645 Nottingham – London. 1745 Nottingham – London. 1904 London – Leeds. 2001 London – Leeds."

 

[43055]

I seem to have lost track.... I’ve got the latest weekday diagrams (I think, just the 2?), but are there any Saturday workings?

No diagrams on Saturday's as no Leeds services. This Sunday looks like two diagrams.

 

[HST43257]

No diagrams on Saturday's as no Leeds services. This Sunday looks like two diagrams.

When Saturday diagrams return (assuming this is before the May change), will they be HST operated?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

When Saturday diagrams return (assuming this is before the May change), will they be HST operated?

Bluntly the railway is facing up to facts the WTT December timetable is unlikely to return. There’s talk of at best some minor easing of restrictions as we head towards Easter, the current train services are largely carting around fresh air, the MML is not different to this. The current train service will more than easily deal with any limited restriction easing without needing a return to the previous WTT.

Many TOCs planning teams are busy descoping May 2021.....

 

[WesternLancer]

No diagrams on Saturday's as no Leeds services. This Sunday looks like two diagrams.

Sat diagrams in on sat 30th by the looks of it - 2 departs from Leeds in the morning then operate all day seem to be on real time trains- so it varies by looks of it.

I seem to have lost track.... I’ve got the latest weekday diagrams (I think, just the 2?), but are there any Saturday workings?

sometimes it seems - check real times trains departures from Leeds in the morning - note services going to St Pancras with EM in operator column. There are not many so quite east to spot if any in. This sunday there are HSTs diverted via Manton/Corby I think.

When Saturday diagrams return (assuming this is before the May change), will they be HST operated?

not quite clear what you mean. HSTs operate some services on some Saturdays by the looks of it.

 

[HST43257]

not quite clear what you mean. HSTs operate some services on some Saturdays by the looks of it.

I was basing my question off the message below

No diagrams on Saturday's as no Leeds services. This Sunday looks like two diagrams.

 

[43055]

Sat diagrams in on sat 30th by the looks of it - 2 departs from Leeds in the morning then operate all day seem to be on real time trains- so it varies by looks of it.


sometimes it seems - check real times trains departures from Leeds in the morning - note services going to St Pancras with EM in operator column. There are not many so quite east to spot if any in. This sunday there are HSTs diverted via Manton/Corby I think.


not quite clear what you mean. HSTs operate some services on some Saturdays by the looks of it.

It probably depends on engineering works when they are out at the weekend. This is from the EMR website regarding which services are being removed from the base timetable from the 18th:

Coronavirus travel information | EMR

Staying safe while travelling The safety or our customers and colleagues is our biggest priority. Rest assured we’re continuing to do everything we can to make your journey as safe as possible and help you to travel with confidence. You can play your part by following these simple rules and...

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Saturdays
0633 London St Pancras to York will not run
0835 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1034 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1334 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1534 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1834 London St Pancras to Leeds will not run
2002 London St Pancras to Leeds will not run
1705 London St Pancras to Lincoln will not run between Nottingham and Lincoln

0612 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
0745 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1045 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1245 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1545 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1745 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1750 York to London St Pancras will not run
2045 Lincoln to Nottingham will not run
0645 Leeds to London St Pancras will not run between Leeds and Nottingham
0740 Leeds to London St Pancras will not run between Leeds and Nottingham

 

[WesternLancer]

I was basing my question off the message below

ah thanks for explaining! All the best

It probably depends on engineering works when they are out at the weekend. This is from the EMR website regarding which services are being removed from the base timetable from the 18th:

Coronavirus travel information | EMR

Staying safe while travelling The safety or our customers and colleagues is our biggest priority. Rest assured we’re continuing to do everything we can to make your journey as safe as possible and help you to travel with confidence. You can play your part by following these simple rules and...

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Saturdays
0633 London St Pancras to York will not run
0835 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1034 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1334 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1534 London St Pancras to Nottingham will not run
1834 London St Pancras to Leeds will not run
2002 London St Pancras to Leeds will not run
1705 London St Pancras to Lincoln will not run between Nottingham and Lincoln

0612 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
0745 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1045 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1245 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1545 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1745 Nottingham to London St Pancras will not run
1750 York to London St Pancras will not run
2045 Lincoln to Nottingham will not run
0645 Leeds to London St Pancras will not run between Leeds and Nottingham
0740 Leeds to London St Pancras will not run between Leeds and Nottingham

Thanks - handy link too.

 

[Swimbar]

From what I understand 43302 is still being used by EMR; is it getting a retro repaint for it's last days in service before transfer to the Railway Museum?

https://mobile.twitter.com/HiPa_IC125_/status/1352588371428847617

Hint? It was in Inter City Swallow livery when it set the world record

 

[Mack91]

Hint? It was in Inter City Swallow livery when it set the world record

That would be my guess as well.

 

[DB]

That would be my guess as well.

Does seem likely - there are basically only three realistic options anyway: original blue/yellow, Swallow or EMR. They wouldn't paint it in a previous post-BR livery as that's just not the done thing, and Intecity Exective doesn't seem a popular livery.

 

[43 302]

That would be my guess as well.

Good guess.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Meanwhile on a side note, I'm told 156414 and 156415 are running the Corby - Kettering shuttles today vice a 5 car class 222.

 

[spotify95]

Meanwhile on a side note, I'm told 156414 and 156415 are running the Corby - Kettering shuttles today vice a 5 car class 222.

Didn't know this - surprised that EMR would run two coupled up 156s to replace a 222 from Kettering to Corby. Though having said that, the slow lines up to Corby are not anywhere near 125mph rated so I doubt there'd be much of a performance difference between a 222, 43 or 156 there.

That got me thinking: if EMR really did need to retire the HSTs, given the current situation with the pandemic, EMR could just run a Bedford-Wellingborough-Kettering-Corby shuttle service on the slows using 156s or 158s, which would align nicely with the Thameslink services from Bedford south. That would then release 222s to cover any gaps.

 

[WesternLancer]

Didn't know this - surprised that EMR would run two coupled up 156s to replace a 222 from Kettering to Corby. Though having said that, the slow lines up to Corby are not anywhere near 125mph rated so I doubt there'd be much of a performance difference between a 222, 43 or 156 there.

That got me thinking: if EMR really did need to retire the HSTs, given the current situation with the pandemic, EMR could just run a Bedford-Wellingborough-Kettering-Corby shuttle service on the slows using 156s or 158s, which would align nicely with the Thameslink services from Bedford south. That would then release 222s to cover any gaps.

That would trash the lucrative first class market on the route...

 

[43055]

That would trash the lucrative first class market on the route...

Just add a 153 for first class

 

[greatvoyager]

That would be my guess as well.

Same here.