Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

[RealTrains07]

Its a shame none of the HSTs will be getting the EMR interim repaint

 

[HamworthyGoods]

https://twitter.com/weareEMR/status/1357705686499606530

43302 in for repaint into a new livery

With the railway on its knees financially, needing massive subsidy and the HSTs in question being withdrawn in 3 months time you have to question is this really a good use of that money?

I know the HST is an iconic train, but these aren’t the last ones to be withdrawn - they’ll still be full length HST sets passing through Derby and Sheffield daily. Other industries such as BA withdrawing the the iconic 747s have sensibly realised now is not the time for fanfare (and more importantly expense).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

https://twitter.com/weareEMR/status/1357705686499606530

43302 in for repaint into a new livery

I’m sorry, but why are they choosing to repaint the trains due to leave in three months over the twenty one 360s all sat in navy blue? It doesn’t add up at all. Waste of money if you ask me.

 

[greatvoyager]

With the railway on its knees financially, needing massive subsidy and the HSTs in question being withdrawn in 3 months time you have to question is this really a good use of that money?

I know the HST is an iconic train, but these aren’t the last ones to be withdrawn - they’ll still be full length HST sets passing through Derby and Sheffield daily. Other industries such as BA withdrawing the the iconic 747s have sensibly realised now is not the time for fanfare (and more importantly expense).

I’m sorry, but why are they choosing to repaint the trains due to leave in three months over the twenty one 360s all sat in navy blue? It doesn’t add up at all. Waste of money if you ask me.

Considering preservation in the national collection awaits this particular power car, is it possible the NRM are funding this in some way?

 

[Wolfie]

They (DfT) should have juts taken the political 'hit' and extended the derogations on the existing EMR HST fleet through to May and they could have done that at no cost at all.
They could have worked out how much work may have been needed on the ex LNER sets by simply asking the team managing the HST refurbs for Scotrail - which was under way at the time.

It all smacks of classic case of making a decisions in a meeting in whitehall instead of taking the decision at railway management level.

But I agree they had probably signed the contracts well before covid impact had even been thought of, let alone thought about the consequences of. Contracts should have had get out clauses when condition and repair cost issues discovered...

Given that the baseline for GWR and LNER's stock was different it doesn't follow that the lessons you mention were meaningful. The planed usage, both in role and duration, was rather different too.

They were increasingly unreliable with things like air leaks and driver guard comms faults becoming very regular - they were being maintained to an expected point of disposal. Further storage did them no favours at all either with the doors jamming up and ceasing to work reliably. If a rail vehicle is due on an exam cycle to have a major replacement of for example the air system then if you're only running it for another few months rather than several years and you accept the risk of additional failure in the meantime then it isn't unsafe but the asset will just degrade further.

Then when it came to COVID it made it a nightmare to do the necessary rectification work.

It was a stupid political decision with hindsight to throw away the MML sets for such a short period of operation when they had just received life extending C4 (below solebar) and C6 (above solebar) exams only to drive them into preservation or the scrapyard full functional.

With hindsight you are absolutely right.

 

[adc82140]

Other industries such as BA withdrawing the the iconic 747s have sensibly realised now is not the time for fanfare (and more importantly expense).

BA had some heritage liveries on their 747s, including the 1970s scheme and BOAC.

 

[43096]

With the railway on its knees financially, needing massive subsidy and the HSTs in question being withdrawn in 3 months time you have to question is this really a good use of that money?

I know the HST is an iconic train, but these aren’t the last ones to be withdrawn - they’ll still be full length HST sets passing through Derby and Sheffield daily. Other industries such as BA withdrawing the the iconic 747s have sensibly realised now is not the time for fanfare (and more importantly expense).

Rather depends who is paying doesn’t it?

 

[fgwrich]

With the railway on its knees financially, needing massive subsidy and the HSTs in question being withdrawn in 3 months time you have to question is this really a good use of that money?

I know the HST is an iconic train, but these aren’t the last ones to be withdrawn - they’ll still be full length HST sets passing through Derby and Sheffield daily. Other industries such as BA withdrawing the the iconic 747s have sensibly realised now is not the time for fanfare (and more importantly expense).

And yet, you have to remember where is Said PC likely to end up. It could have been in need of a bodywork overhaul and EMR have chosen to kill two birds with one stone. 3 months usage is still a lot more use than the 3 day LNER set, painted externally by both Wabtec and Heritage Painting (that’ll have cost them even more).

Another poster mentioned the 360s. That’ll happen, soon enough. No need to get wound up over the painting of one power car vs the refurbishment of 21 360s.

 

[DB]

And yet, you have to remember where is Said PC likely to end up. It could have been in need of a bodywork overhaul and EMR have chosen to kill two birds with one stone. 3 months usage is still a lot more use than the 3 day LNER set, painted externally by both Wabtec and Heritage Painting (that’ll have cost them even more).

Indeed. 43302 was actually stated in some of the railway press as being one of those for that LNER set in original livery, but in the end it wasn't one of those used. It will almost certainly be going to the NRM though, so makes sense for it to be in decent visual condition for that - the VTEC/LNER livery is looking decidedly tired now.

 

[supervc-10]

BA had some heritage liveries on their 747s, including the 1970s scheme and BOAC.

Those pre-dated Covid though- there was some very minor fanfare when they retired them last year, but not much at all. The retrojets though are being preserved (or at least some of them are). If this PC is going to the NRM, then it makes sense to have it looking good!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

BA had some heritage liveries on their 747s, including the 1970s scheme and BOAC.

Those were painted pre-Covid crisis

 

[WesternLancer]

Don't think it has been mentioned on this thread yet, but I was on one set yesterday and I noted it is now formed with a std class carriage in front of the 1st class open, then the 1st class seating TRB, then 3 more standard class carriages. This seemed confusing to me, and certainly other passengers, is there a known reason for this current configuration?

Obv is does mean that if you want to travel next to both power cars on your HST trip you only need a std class ticket - but I'm assuming that is not the reason...

 

[Benno]

With the railway on its knees financially, needing massive subsidy and the HSTs in question being withdrawn in 3 months time you have to question is this really a good use of that money?

The question that really needs asking is why so much money was needed to be spent on getting a fleet of ex LNER vehicles back into a usable condition to run another (at the time) 18 months, when a fleet of blue trailer cars could have had a lot less spent on them to make them equally compliant.

In comparison to that, the cost of a repaint to a power car is small change.

 

[DB]

The question that really needs asking is why so much money was needed to be spent on getting a fleet of ex LNER vehicles back into a usable condition to run another (at the time) 18 months, when a fleet of blue trailer cars could have had a lot less spent on them to make them equally compliant.

Because the DfT decided! Logic should therefore not necessarily be expected...

 

[Benno]

Because the DfT decided! Logic should therefore not necessarily be expected...

Should the DFT not be held to account when Engineers where telling them the best option was to spend money on the Blue sets rather than the red sets, only for it to be ignored?

 

[DB]

Should the DFT not be held to account when Engineers where telling them the best option was to spend money on the Blue sets rather than the red sets, only for it to be ignored?

Yes, but who is going to do that? These civil service departments are largely a law unto themselves.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Don't think it has been mentioned on this thread yet, but I was on one set yesterday and I noted it is now formed with a std class carriage in front of the 1st class open, then the 1st class seating TRB, then 3 more standard class carriages. This seemed confusing to me, and certainly other passengers, is there a known reason for this current configuration?

Obv is does mean that if you want to travel next to both power cars on your HST trip you only need a std class ticket - but I'm assuming that is not the reason...

I’m not quite sure why the TRFBs weren’t taken out the sets when reduced to 6 coaches, there’s not much meaningful catering happening presently and can’t really see that changing much before their withdrawal.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I’m not quite sure why the TRFBs weren’t taken out the sets when reduced to 6 coaches, there’s not much meaningful catering happening presently and can’t really see that changing much before their withdrawal.

Don't the TRFBs have a cabin for the train manager, from which the PA announcements are made? I think that this was the case on the 'blue' sets, at least.

 

[43096]

Don't the TRFBs have a cabin for the train manager, from which the PA announcements are made? I think that this was the case on the 'blue' sets, at least.

There is also the TGS that offers the same facilities for the guard.

 

[DB]

Don't the TRFBs have a cabin for the train manager, from which the PA announcements are made? I think that this was the case on the 'blue' sets, at least.

They might have, but the TGS also has this so that wouldn't be a bar to removing the TRFBs.

 

[LowLevel]

Don't know if all diagrams have suitable PNBs for train crew in them yet (they're an ongoing issue), in any case the catering equipment is regularly used by the crews so there would seem to be little point in shunting the buffet vehicles out and pushing more people into already busy mess rooms.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Don't the TRFBs have a cabin for the train manager, from which the PA announcements are made? I think that this was the case on the 'blue' sets, at least.

The blue sets had no TGS so the crew bunk in the buffet was more important.

 

[43096]

The blue sets had no TGS so the crew bunk in the buffet was more important.

The Neville Hill based blue sets did have TGS vehicles. The 6-car ex-Grand Central sets were the ones with no TGS.

 

[DB]

The blue sets had no TGS so the crew bunk in the buffet was more important.

The only sets with no TGS were the three ex-GC ones, only one or at most two of which was ever used at once.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, but who is going to do that? These civil service departments are largely a law unto themselves.

well, the Opposition transport team are there to do this, or maybe the Transport Select Cttee, but thier interest is likely to be dictated by how much money has been spent on it (and thus in part wasted) which is what would be interesting to know.

I’m not quite sure why the TRFBs weren’t taken out the sets when reduced to 6 coaches, there’s not much meaningful catering happening presently and can’t really see that changing much before their withdrawal.

Thanks - but why put a std class carriage 'isolated' by 1st in the set make up, irrespective of this?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The only sets with no TGS were the three ex-GC ones, only one or at most two of which was ever used at once.

Apologies thats sets I meant not the original MML sets.

 

[43055]

Don't think it has been mentioned on this thread yet, but I was on one set yesterday and I noted it is now formed with a std class carriage in front of the 1st class open, then the 1st class seating TRB, then 3 more standard class carriages. This seemed confusing to me, and certainly other passengers, is there a known reason for this current configuration?

Obv is does mean that if you want to travel next to both power cars on your HST trip you only need a std class ticket - but I'm assuming that is not the reason...

Two sets were like this late last week but both sets out today have first class at one end again. Maybe it was just a quick way of shunting the coach into the set?

We are EMR have posted 2 more pictures of 43302 which is now getting its primer coat.

https://mobile.twitter.com/weareEMR/status/1358751194391396352

 

[WesternLancer]

Two sets were like this late last week but both sets out today have first class at one end again. Maybe it was just a quick way of shunting the coach into the set?

We are EMR have posted 2 more pictures of 43302 which is now getting its primer coat.

https://mobile.twitter.com/weareEMR/status/1358751194391396352

Thanks - sounds logical - thanks also for that link - something o look forward to and ref comments up thread I think this is nice to see and money well spent in my view. It's a shame the small fleet they have now is generally looking rather scruffy and dirty so this is a +ve move in a small way.

 

[43055]

Looking at the comments on the HST group on Facebook it sounds like 43302 has now been renumbered back to 43102 on TOPS.

 

[greatvoyager]

Looking at the comments on the HST group on Facebook it sounds like 43302 has now been renumbered back to 43102 on TOPS.

Is the renumbering back to its original number giving a hint to the livery?