Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

[spotify95]

That would trash the lucrative first class market on the route...

Out of all the customers on the route, how many will be travelling Kettering to Corby? And out of those, how many will be travelling via 1st class?

As mentioned before, the best way of resolving the HST issue (if there is a lack of rolling stock to replace the HST) is to use a shuttle service Corby to Bedford, interchanging with the Thameslink services at Bedford. That would free up 222s for the other services.

Also, does anyone know which HSTs are still running and which are off lease/stored? The last one I rode was before Christmas and was an ex-GC 6 car service. I know the EMT blue sets cannot be operated any more - any of those Mk3s still about or have they been fed to the Newport crushers?

 

[DB]

Also, does anyone know which HSTs are still running and which are off lease/stored? The last one I rode was before Christmas and was an ex-GC 6 car service. I know the EMT blue sets cannot be operated any more - any of those Mk3s still about or have they been fed to the Newport crushers?

ex-GC and ex-EMT ones are all now withdrawn.

Those still operating are all ex-LNER, and the fleet is currently being reduced - four power cars due to go to Ely for storage imminently, and there have been a numebr of scrap runs taking Mk3s to Newport (last one yesterday) with probably more to follow.

I believe the GC sets are all stored at Ely. Some of the withdrawn EMT sets and withdrawn or not used ex-LNER sets have been scrapped and some are stored at Gascoigne Wood (former railhead for the Selby coalfield)

No power cars have been scrapped yet - withdrawn Angel Trains ones are mostly at Ely and Porterbrook ones mostly at Burton.

 

[WesternLancer]

Out of all the customers on the route, how many will be travelling Kettering to Corby? And out of those, how many will be travelling via 1st class?

As mentioned before, the best way of resolving the HST issue (if there is a lack of rolling stock to replace the HST) is to use a shuttle service Corby to Bedford, interchanging with the Thameslink services at Bedford. That would free up 222s for the other services.

I trust the emoji indicated I was joking on that one!
My guess on the other point is they do not have enough spare 156/158s etc to commit to that and they can keep the HSTs until May (which was planned already) so are minded to do so. But anything could change I guess.

Mind you if they want to make the EMUs look good when they start in May - one way to do that would be to operate the service with a 156 for a while before then....

Or even set aside a dedicated 153 pool.

 

[43074]

Out of all the customers on the route, how many will be travelling Kettering to Corby? And out of those, how many will be travelling via 1st class?

As mentioned before, the best way of resolving the HST issue (if there is a lack of rolling stock to replace the HST) is to use a shuttle service Corby to Bedford, interchanging with the Thameslink services at Bedford. That would free up 222s for the other services.

There's no capacity at Bedford and scarcely enough DMUs to cover the regional routes most of the time, nevermind problems with resourcing enough traincrew who sign both 15x and the mainline, or route conducting crew on different traction which is hardly ideal when traincrew are being affected by Covid. It absolutely isn't the best way of resolving it.

If they're that desperate cancel the London to Corby services throughout and use a 222 on a Kettering to Corby shuttle.

 

[Hairy Bear]

Out of all the customers on the route, how many will be travelling Kettering to Corby? And out of those, how many will be travelling via 1st class?

Just the drug couriers, their the only ones in Corby that can afford the fares !!

 

[Mack91]

Hi, is this a Sunday HST diagram?

TIA

Realtime Trains - 1C43 1050 Leeds to St Pancras International

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43055]

Hi, is this a Sunday HST diagram?

TIA

Realtime Trains - 1C43 1050 Leeds to St Pancras International

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It looks like one for this Sunday. They seem to change weekly at the moment due to engineering works.

 

[Mack91]

It looks like one for this Sunday. They seem to change weekly at the moment due to engineering works.

Brilliant, thank you.

 

[43055]

Also, does anyone know which HSTs are still running and which are off lease/stored? The last one I rode was before Christmas and was an ex-GC 6 car service. I know the EMT blue sets cannot be operated any more - any of those Mk3s still about or have they been fed to the Newport crushers?

Current state of the HST fleet including withdrawn stock below. Two sets went to Newport recently (NL12, NL54) both from Gascoigne Wood so I would imagine the remaining 4 up there will make the one way trip at some point.

In Service:
Class 43 HST power cars:
43238 - LNER red, EMR branding
43251 - LNER red, EMR branding
43257 - LNER red, EMR branding
43272 - LNER red, EMR branding
43274 - LNER red, EMR branding
43295 - LNER red, EMR branding
43302 - Currently in the paint shop.
43309 - LNER red, EMR branding
43310 - LNER red, EMR branding
43320 - LNER red, EMR branding

MK3 Coach sets:
'red' sets (Ex LNER). All 6 coaches.
NL56
NL57
NL58

Withdrawn Stock:
Class 43 HST power cars:
43044, 300, 305, 306, 316, 319 are withdrawn but still at Neville Hill
43045, 050, 060 are at Derby RTC with Colas Rail on test trains.
43048, 052, 054, 066, 076, 089 are at Leicester (D.A.T.S). 43048, 089 are now part of the 125group.
43046, 055, 058, 059, 083 are now with LSL
43043, 047, 049, 064, 073, 081, 082, 277, 290, 299 are now at Burton West Yard.
43296, 308, 314, 318, 423, 465, 467, 468, 480, 484 are at Ely
43307, 317 are at Barrow Hill

Mk3's:
NL01 Scrapped/3 coaches to 125 group
NL06, NL07, NL10, NL12, NL52, NL53, NL54 Scrapped
NL03, NL04, NL08, NL11 stored at Gascoigne Wood (Part of NL03 will be going to the 125group.)
DY21, DY22, DY23 are at Ely
NL55 is withdrawn but still at Neville Hill
NL51 is stored at Barrow Hill

 

[DB]

Current state of the HST fleet including withdrawn stock below. Two sets went to Newport recently (NL12, NL54) both from Gascoigne Wood so I would imagine the remaining 4 up there will make the one way trip at some point.

In Service:
Class 43 HST power cars:
43238 - LNER red, EMR branding
43251 - LNER red, EMR branding
43257 - LNER red, EMR branding
43272 - LNER red, EMR branding
43274 - LNER red, EMR branding
43295 - LNER red, EMR branding
43302 - Currently in the paint shop.
43309 - LNER red, EMR branding
43310 - LNER red, EMR branding
43320 - LNER red, EMR branding

MK3 Coach sets:
'red' sets (Ex LNER). All 6 coaches.
NL56
NL57
NL58

Withdrawn Stock:
Class 43 HST power cars:
43044, 305, 306, 316, 319 are withdrawn but still at Neville Hill
43045, 050, 060 are at Derby RTC with Colas Rail on test trains.
43048, 052, 054, 066, 076, 089 are at Leicester (D.A.T.S). 43048, 089 are now part of the 125group.
43046, 055, 058, 059, 083 are now with LSL
43043, 047, 049, 064, 073, 081, 082, 277, 290, 299 are now at Burton West Yard.
43296, 308, 314, 318, 423, 465, 467, 468, 480, 484 are at Ely
43307, 317 are at Barrow Hill

Mk3's:
NL01 Scrapped/3 coaches to 125 group
NL06, NL07, NL10, NL12, NL52, NL53, NL54 Scrapped
NL03, NL04, NL08, NL11 stored at Gascoigne Wood
DY21, DY22, DY23 are at Ely
NL55 is withdrawn but still at Neville Hill
NL51 is stored at Barrow Hill

Part of NL03 is going to the 125 group.

There are also some other Mk3s, including two in EMT blue livery, still at Neville Hill (or there were on Tuesday, and I've not seen any mention of them moving).

In addition 43300 is at Neville Hill as a spares donor.

 

[43055]

Part of NL03 is going to the 125 group.

There are also some other Mk3s, including two in EMT blue livery, still at Neville Hill (or there were on Tuesday, and I've not seen any mention of them moving).

In addition 43300 is at Neville Hill as a spares donor.

Thanks. I imagine the EMT Mk3's could be spare ones or the ones heading to the 125group?

 

[DB]

Thanks. I imagine the EMT Mk3's could be spare ones or the ones heading to the 125group?

There is mention in the latest 125 group magazine that they are looking at possibly obtaining an additional two Mk3s - I don't know whether it's these two though.

 

[spotify95]

ex-GC and ex-EMT ones are all now withdrawn.

Those still operating are all ex-LNER, and the fleet is currently being reduced - four power cars due to go to Ely for storage imminently, and there have been a numebr of scrap runs taking Mk3s to Newport (last one yesterday) with probably more to follow.

I believe the GC sets are all stored at Ely. Some of the withdrawn EMT sets and withdrawn or not used ex-LNER sets have been scrapped and some are stored at Gascoigne Wood (former railhead for the Selby coalfield)

No power cars have been scrapped yet - withdrawn Angel Trains ones are mostly at Ely and Porterbrook ones mostly at Burton.

Thanks for the info - I guess the only HSTs and Mk3s that had the extension to May 2021 were the LNER sets then? The last set I rode (just before Christmas) was an ex-GC set (when introduced to EMR, they were the only 6-car HSTs) so it's a shame they won't be run on the MML again. I can't remember if these ones had power plugs in Standard Class (I know the original EMT ones didn't!). Hopefully someone can buy these (or salvage them for re-use or parts) before the crushers at Newport get their hands on them!

I trust the emoji indicated I was joking on that one!
My guess on the other point is they do not have enough spare 156/158s etc to commit to that and they can keep the HSTs until May (which was planned already) so are minded to do so. But anything could change I guess.

Mind you if they want to make the EMUs look good when they start in May - one way to do that would be to operate the service with a 156 for a while before then....

Or even set aside a dedicated 153 pool.

Haha I suppose that the 360s would be an upgrade on a 153 or 156. Then again, given that I've heard they are entering service as 2+3 trains (yet the MML has always been 2+2, including the HSTs) then most people would probably wish the HSTs were staying!

There's no capacity at Bedford and scarcely enough DMUs to cover the regional routes most of the time, nevermind problems with resourcing enough traincrew who sign both 15x and the mainline, or route conducting crew on different traction which is hardly ideal when traincrew are being affected by Covid. It absolutely isn't the best way of resolving it.

If they're that desperate cancel the London to Corby services throughout and use a 222 on a Kettering to Corby shuttle.

Thanks for the info. So basically a logistical nightmare then, and it would be better to keep the HSTs running longer (which is a good thing, as I like the HSTs). Having said that, the only other thing EMR had (prior to the 180s and 360s) are 222s, and I'd say that pretty much anything other than a 220 or 221 would be an upgrade over a 222.

Indeed, a Kettering to Corby shuttle would work nicely, and interchange at Kettering if you need to go to Corby.

Just the drug couriers, their the only ones in Corby that can afford the fares !!

Surprised that Corby was that popular though having said that, they are getting two trains an hour of up to 12 coahces long when the 360s come into use!
It's a shame that the MML couldn't be electrified throughout, then they could have used 810s (or the current 222s) for the fasts, the 360s for semi fasts (for commuters of intermediate stations), and then people like myself (and many others) wouldn't have to change trains at Kettering in order to get to Leicester (and beyond).

Current state of the HST fleet including withdrawn stock below. Two sets went to Newport recently (NL12, NL54) both from Gascoigne Wood so I would imagine the remaining 4 up there will make the one way trip at some point.

In Service:
Class 43 HST power cars:
43238 - LNER red, EMR branding
43251 - LNER red, EMR branding
43257 - LNER red, EMR branding
43272 - LNER red, EMR branding
43274 - LNER red, EMR branding
43295 - LNER red, EMR branding
43302 - Currently in the paint shop.
43309 - LNER red, EMR branding
43310 - LNER red, EMR branding
43320 - LNER red, EMR branding

MK3 Coach sets:
'red' sets (Ex LNER). All 6 coaches.
NL56
NL57
NL58

Withdrawn Stock:
Class 43 HST power cars:
43044, 300, 305, 306, 316, 319 are withdrawn but still at Neville Hill
43045, 050, 060 are at Derby RTC with Colas Rail on test trains.
43048, 052, 054, 066, 076, 089 are at Leicester (D.A.T.S). 43048, 089 are now part of the 125group.
43046, 055, 058, 059, 083 are now with LSL
43043, 047, 049, 064, 073, 081, 082, 277, 290, 299 are now at Burton West Yard.
43296, 308, 314, 318, 423, 465, 467, 468, 480, 484 are at Ely
43307, 317 are at Barrow Hill

Mk3's:
NL01 Scrapped/3 coaches to 125 group
NL06, NL07, NL10, NL12, NL52, NL53, NL54 Scrapped
NL03, NL04, NL08, NL11 stored at Gascoigne Wood (Part of NL03 will be going to the 125group.)
DY21, DY22, DY23 are at Ely
NL55 is withdrawn but still at Neville Hill
NL51 is stored at Barrow Hill

That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you for the information! I had not been made aware of the recent Newport runs, as no one else had posted about them on here before. It's a shame that a lot of these Mk3s are going to Newport as they just dispose of the sets via the machinery that they have; don't they know that there are rail enthusiasts that wouldn't mind buying parts of train interiors, such as the seating? In fact, a lot of the refurbished HSTs ended up getting LED lights installed (at least in some areas) - crushing LEDs that are barely a couple of years old (which could be used elsewhere) seems rather counter intuitive where we are being encouraged to reduce waste and re-use more?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess that the DY sets were the ex GC sets, the low number NL sets were the original EMT blue sets, and the high number NL sets are the ex LNER sts?

Furthermore, what will likely happen with the power cars that are currently in storage? Will they eventually be repurposed (I don't know if they are compatible with newer coaches that meet PRM?) or will they eventually be scrapped, like the Mk3s?

Part of NL03 is going to the 125 group.

There are also some other Mk3s, including two in EMT blue livery, still at Neville Hill (or there were on Tuesday, and I've not seen any mention of them moving).

In addition 43300 is at Neville Hill as a spares donor.

Glad to hear that there are more Mk3s that are being saved from the crushers!

 

[greatvoyager]

Anyone know progress on 43302?

 

[DB]

Thanks for the info - I guess the only HSTs and Mk3s that had the extension to May 2021 were the LNER sets then? The last set I rode (just before Christmas) was an ex-GC set (when introduced to EMR, they were the only 6-car HSTs) so it's a shame they won't be run on the MML again. I can't remember if these ones had power plugs in Standard Class (I know the original EMT ones didn't!). Hopefully someone can buy these (or salvage them for re-use or parts) before the crushers at Newport get their hands on them!

It was just the LNER sets which got the extension, although some EMT sets were in use right up to the line.

The ex-GC sets had sockets throughout (and USB sockets as well in the buffets, which were ex-GWR). EMT sets only had sockets (no USB) in first class.

That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you for the information! I had not been made aware of the recent Newport runs, as no one else had posted about them on here before. It's a shame that a lot of these Mk3s are going to Newport as they just dispose of the sets via the machinery that they have; don't they know that there are rail enthusiasts that wouldn't mind buying parts of train interiors, such as the seating? In fact, a lot of the refurbished HSTs ended up getting LED lights installed (at least in some areas) - crushing LEDs that are barely a couple of years old (which could be used elsewhere) seems rather counter intuitive where we are being encouraged to reduce waste and re-use more?

They work on a massive scale and tight timescales, so pretty much anything coming in (whether it's trains or anything else) will get processed quickly - they aren't set up for having old railway stock hanging around for weeks or months while people pick over it, and the cost of trying to do so would be more than they'd get from selling bits and pieces.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I guess that the DY sets were the ex GC sets, the low number NL sets were the original EMT blue sets, and the high number NL sets are the ex LNER sts?

Yes

Furthermore, what will likely happen with the power cars that are currently in storage? Will they eventually be repurposed (I don't know if they are compatible with newer coaches that meet PRM?) or will they eventually be scrapped, like the Mk3s?

Has to be likely that many will be scrapped - a few more might go for test trains use, but I'm not aware of any other likely uses for them.

 

[greatvoyager]

There is mention in the latest 125 group magazine that they are looking at possibly obtaining an additional two Mk3s - I don't know whether it's these two though.

Is the plan to make a full length consist?

 

[43096]

Is the plan to make a full length consist?

Why not join the group and find out?!

 

[greatvoyager]

Why not join the group and find out?!

What’s the harm in asking the question?

 

[43096]

What’s the harm in asking the question?

No harm in asking. No harm in suggesting joining, either!

 

[greatvoyager]

No harm in asking. No harm in suggesting joining, either!

Fair enough

 

[Railperf]

Is the plan to make a full length consist?

I would imagine a full length consist would be essential for generating enough revenue for future rail tours - COVID-19 situation permitting. The group expressed their desire to preserve a full set.
But an 8/9-car probably not that essential for running up and down the ex GCR at 25mph. Though i do recall an ex EMT 8-car set being hauled by the prototype power car on occasion up and down the line.

 

[43096]

I would imagine a full length consist would be essential for generating enough revenue for future rail tours - COVID-19 situation permitting. The group expressed their desire to preserve a full set.
But an 8/9-car probably not that essential for running up and down the ex GCR at 25mph. Though i do recall an ex EMT 8-car set being hauled by the prototype power car on occasion up and down the line.

You can’t run a full 2+8 set on the GCRN in any case due to the length limit at Fifty Steps. Maximum that can be (and has been run) is a 2+6 which fits - just. The visiting sets from EMT have been 6-car, the first time was a standard set that had two TS taken out at Etches Park before the tour, the second time was one of the ex-GC 6-car sets.

 

[Railperf]

You can’t run a full 2+8 set on the GCRN in any case due to the length limit at Fifty Steps. Maximum that can be (and has been run) is a 2+6 which fits - just. The visiting sets from EMT have been 6-car, the first time was a standard set that had two TS taken out at Etches Park before the tour, the second time was one of the ex-GC 6-car sets.

Ahhh. Thanks for the correction. I hadn't counted the coaches in the videos, but the sets looked quite long. LoL

 

[InTheEastMids]

It's a shame that the MML couldn't be electrified throughout, then they could have used 810s (or the current 222s) for the fasts, the 360s for semi fasts (for commuters of intermediate stations), and then people like myself (and many others) wouldn't have to change trains at Kettering in order to get to Leicester (and beyond)

This comes up on a fairly regular basis, sometimes so people can find something for the Heathrow Connect 360/2 to do

However, it's currently a non starter given constraints South of Luton and at Leicester. Unless NR can conjure additional paths, any post Electrification fantasy of sending 360s to Leicester is actually an argument for substituting a Nottingham or Sheffield fast service with a Leicester stopper.

 

[43096]

This comes up on a fairly regular basis, sometimes so people can find something for the Heathrow Connect 360/2 to do

However, it's currently a non starter given constraints South of Luton and at Leicester. Unless NR can conjure additional paths, any post Electrification fantasy of sending 360s to Leicester is actually an argument for substituting a Nottingham or Sheffield fast service with a Leicester stopper.

That or sending one of the two Corby services as a stopper to Leicester, which probably isn't going to need any extra units.

 

[greatvoyager]

Ahhh. Thanks for the correction. I hadn't counted the coaches in the videos, but the sets looked quite long. LoL

I guess they’ll get however many vehicles they need, considering we’ve had everything from 2+6 to 2+9.

 

[Railperf]

This comes up on a fairly regular basis, sometimes so people can find something for the Heathrow Connect 360/2 to do

However, it's currently a non starter given constraints South of Luton and at Leicester. Unless NR can conjure additional paths, any post Electrification fantasy of sending 360s to Leicester is actually an argument for substituting a Nottingham or Sheffield fast service with a Leicester stopper.

The best solution would have been to segregate the commuter and semi fast traffic - confining Thameslink to the slow lines allowing greater flexibility and pathing on the main lines for EMR. Trains bound for the North could then have been confined to pickup at Luton/Luton airport and Bedford, and set down only at the same stations for selected services.
I know that means slightly longer journey times for Thameslink customers, but at least that would be offest by the greater frequency. Bedford really needed a southbound platform on the main line too, rather than the very slow entry and exit on the up lines.
The Corby services could have stopped at all stations North of Bedford using the slow lines there, with the fast Intercity service picking up at Bedford and Kettering. Northbound HST's would have been perfect for a limited stop service with first stop Kettering to pickup passengers interchanging off the 360 electric service.

 

[duffman82]

https://twitter.com/weareEMR/status/1357705686499606530

43302 in for repaint into a new livery

 

[XCTurbostar]

https://twitter.com/weareEMR/status/1357705686499606530

43302 in for repaint into a new livery

Any ideas what livery this could be?

Let’s not forget that 43302 (43102) was one of the powercars in the fastest diesel locomotive run.

EDIT: It apparently carried the Intercity Exec livery when it set the record.

 

[DB]

Any ideas what livery this could be?

Let’s not forget that 43302 (43102) was one of the powercars in the fastest diesel locomotive run.

EDIT: It apparently carried the Intercity Exec livery when it set the record.

It carried Swallow livery when it set the record (the other power car had Exec). Seems very likely that Swallow is what it will be getting (remember this one is destined for the NRM when EMR have finished with it).