Transfer of LNER HST 125s to East Midlands Railway (EMR)

43096

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They are only keeping three sets so that would be a little tricky!
Are they? As I understand it the remaining 6 sets (of which one still being worked on at NL) stay and will be rotated round the remaining 2 diagrams, pending a return to a more normal timetable.
 
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WesternLancer

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To keep the crews familiar with the route.
Thanks - not to turn the set then:lol:

Are they? As I understand it the remaining 6 sets (of which one still being worked on at NL) stay and will be rotated round the remaining 2 diagrams, pending a return to a more normal timetable.
kind of sounds more logical - esp less loss of face at DfT given the ££s spent on readying the 'red sets'
 

43 302

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As far as I understand it three of the six sets to go off lease with two in traffic and one spare. I imagine more PCs will go off lease too.
 

43096

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As far as I understand it three of the six sets to go off lease with two in traffic and one spare. I imagine more PCs will go off lease too.
After what I heard last night, believe that is correct. Change of plan, obviously!
 

ClnRe

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On the theme - what's this ECS move - almost looks like a railtour! St P to St P via Corby - Melton - Leicester and Kettering

EMR could make some extra revenue by opening this journey up to rail enthusiasts as a daily circular railtour before the HSTs are withdrawn in May. :D
 

WesternLancer

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Many thanks for this information.
I don't know which journeys these codes refer to through, so would you list the services included in these two workings please.

I think it is basically this (weekdays from Mon 18th Jan) - not sure about sats or sundays (maybe they are variable but presumably also operated with 2 sets so not many trains) Posts of w/end diags would be handy to see

First set Does

Leeds dept 05.19 (via Derby 07.03) arr St P 08.54 (1C15)

Then to Cricklewood sidings, then later on in day:

St P 15.34 to Nottm arr 17.10 (1D48)
then
Nottm 17.45 arr St P 19.36 (1B69)
then
St P 20.01 to Leeds (via Derby 21.36) Leeds arr 23.11 (1F70)


Second set does

Leeds 06.34 to St P via Nottm arr St P 10.11 (1B23)

then to Cricklewood sidings or ECS trip 5M17 St P to St P via Corby and Leicester
then

St P 14.34 to Nottm arr 16.10 (1D43)
then

Nottm 16.45 arr St P 18.34 (1B63)
then

St P 19.04 to Leeds via Nottm. Leeds arr 22.49 (1D66)


Note:
St P = London St Pancras International
Nottm = Nottingham Midland

any corrections welcome!


I suspect there is a risk of even this being reduced, but if lock down eases I guess passenger numbers would increase into spring (and those vaccinated will start to demand ability to be more mobile I would think), which would suggest sense in longer trains - ie fewer short Meridians) - for that reason I would have thought it made better sense to keep the 6 train HST fleet until the May cascades happen as planned - but I suspect HM Treasury has told DfT "your not getting the money you got in lockdown 1 to run all your trainset"
 

43 302

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I think it is basically this (weekdays from Mon 18th Jan) - not sure about sats or sundays (maybe they are variable but presumably also operated with 2 sets so not many trains) Posts of w/end diags would be handy to see

First set Does

Leeds dept 05.19 (via Derby 07.03) arr St P 08.54 (1C15)

Then to Cricklewood sidings, then later on in day:

St P 15.34 to Nottm arr 17.10 (1D48)
then
Nottm 17.45 arr St P 19.36 (1B69)
then
St P 20.01 to Leeds (via Derby 21.36) Leeds arr 23.11 (1F70)


Second set does

Leeds 06.34 to St P via Nottm arr St P 10.11 (1B23)

then to Cricklewood sidings or ECS trip 5M17 St P to St P via Corby and Leicester
then

St P 14.34 to Nottm arr 16.10 (1D43)
then

Nottm 16.45 arr St P 18.34 (1B63)
then

St P 19.04 to Leeds via Nottm. Leeds arr 22.49 (1D66)


Note:
St P = London St Pancras International
Nottm = Nottingham Midland

any corrections welcome!


I suspect there is a risk of even this being reduced, but if lock down eases I guess passenger numbers would increase into spring (and those vaccinated will start to demand ability to be more mobile I would think), which would suggest sense in longer trains - ie fewer short Meridians) - for that reason I would have thought it made better sense to keep the 6 train HST fleet until the May cascades happen as planned - but I suspect HM Treasury has told DfT "your not getting the money you got in lockdown 1 to run all your trainset"
Weekday diagrams already posted up thread in post #954.

Unfortunately I expect I have been on my last MML HST.
 

WesternLancer

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Of course if some red sets are going off lease it should release enough spare carriages to return the 3 sets being kept to 8 carriage trains from their current 6...
 

ClnRe

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I think it is basically this (weekdays from Mon 18th Jan) - not sure about sats or sundays (maybe they are variable but presumably also operated with 2 sets so not many trains) Posts of w/end diags would be handy to see

First set Does

Leeds dept 05.19 (via Derby 07.03) arr St P 08.54 (1C15)

Then to Cricklewood sidings, then later on in day:

St P 15.34 to Nottm arr 17.10 (1D48)
then
Nottm 17.45 arr St P 19.36 (1B69)
then
St P 20.01 to Leeds (via Derby 21.36) Leeds arr 23.11 (1F70)


Second set does

Leeds 06.34 to St P via Nottm arr St P 10.11 (1B23)

then to Cricklewood sidings or ECS trip 5M17 St P to St P via Corby and Leicester
then

St P 14.34 to Nottm arr 16.10 (1D43)
then

Nottm 16.45 arr St P 18.34 (1B63)
then

St P 19.04 to Leeds via Nottm. Leeds arr 22.49 (1D66)


Note:
St P = London St Pancras International
Nottm = Nottingham Midland

any corrections welcome!


I suspect there is a risk of even this being reduced, but if lock down eases I guess passenger numbers would increase into spring (and those vaccinated will start to demand ability to be more mobile I would think), which would suggest sense in longer trains - ie fewer short Meridians) - for that reason I would have thought it made better sense to keep the 6 train HST fleet until the May cascades happen as planned - but I suspect HM Treasury has told DfT "your not getting the money you got in lockdown 1 to run all your trainset"
Many thanks
 

HST43257

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EMR could make some extra revenue by opening this journey up to rail enthusiasts as a daily circular railtour before the HSTs are withdrawn in May. :D
No idea how serious you are about this one, but when the lockdown is over, why not? Perhaps adding in a stop at Kettering on the outward might help sales (in case leisure travellers don’t want to travel into London).
 

43 302

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No idea how serious you are about this one, but when the lockdown is over, why not? Perhaps adding in a stop at Kettering on the outward might help sales (in case leisure travellers don’t want to travel into London).
When lockdown is over, the dispensation will have run out ;)
 

HST43257

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When lockdown is over, the dispensation will have run out ;)
Isn’t optimism a wonderful thing :( Hoping that by the Easter Holidays we can be (in some way) free. Even if they did just do it for those 2 weeks or so, I reckon it could generate some revenue.
 
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Isn’t optimism a wonderful thing :( Hoping that by the Easter Holidays we can be (in some way) free. Even if they did just do it for those 2 weeks or so, I reckon it could generate some revenue.

Not sure generating revenue is the highest priority at the moment.
 
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With the low number of passengers at the moment the railways need as much revenue as they can get. Maybe just a drop in the ocean but every penny should count.
Not whilst we are functioning as essential travel only which isn’t likely to be the first restriction lifted (schools are).

There must be doubt the HSTs will ever work again on the MML under a non-restricted travel set-up
 

WesternLancer

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Not whilst we are functioning as essential travel only which isn’t likely to be the first restriction lifted (schools are).

There must be doubt the HSTs will ever work again on the MML under a non-restricted travel set-up
or, if the Treasury get their way a lot of other rolling stock (or even staff....) I fear
 

HST43257

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Not whilst we are functioning as essential travel only which isn’t likely to be the first restriction lifted (schools are).
My hope is that travel restrictions will have gone by the time the Easter Holidays come along. Given that full lockdown could finish at the end of February and we will enter some sort of tier system again somewhere along the line, we should be able to find some sort of way to get it going.

This sort of defeats the point of a bank holiday, but could they run the ECS as a revenue earning service on the 3rd May (Early May Bank Holiday) and maybe also bringing a set back (assuming they’ve all gone by then) for the Spring Bank Holiday weekend (Sat, Sun, Mon) at the very end of its dispensation. It could operate passenger (booked diagram workings) and enthusiast services (probably just the Monday ECS) over that weekend, then a farewell tour during that half term if that’s possible.
 
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43055

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NL53 went to scrap at Newport yesterday as well as NL51 having its last day in traffic. There is also talk of 6 power cars being withdrawn and will be stored at Barrow Hill.
 

43096

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NL53 went to scrap at Newport yesterday as well as NL51 having its last day in traffic. There is also talk of 6 power cars being withdrawn and will be stored at Barrow Hill.
The fleet is being reduced to three sets and ten power cars. So three sets plus six power cars going.
 

43096

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Scrap or storage?
Latter then the former probably. No point in keeping them, but given the other ex-LNER sets are still stood rotting at Ely with no prospect of re-use, who knows?
 

ClnRe

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The six PCs going off lease are Angels: 305, 306, 307, 316, 317 & 319. NL56-58 to stay.
Is there any chance that these PCs and sets could be put back in service should a full timetable be reintroduced before May?
 

43096

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Is there any chance that these PCs and sets could be put back in service should a full timetable be reintroduced before May?
Unlikely. If they need to revert to a full timetable, I'd say it is more likely they'd find a way to put 360s on the existing Corby trains (despite platform occupancy issues at St. Pancras) to release 222s.
 
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Is there any chance that these PCs and sets could be put back in service should a full timetable be reintroduced before May?

There is also currently no expectation that the ‘full’ timetables will be resumed that quickly if ever. The longer the pandemic has gone on the more it’s becoming apparent the railway won’t in general revert to the pre-Covid service in many areas.

As HSTs worked peak time additionals and this is where the demand has really dropped off there is no particular logic to bring them back.

Most operators are working up revised plans for the rest of this year with DfT to match what is likely to be the actual demand bearing in mind the total collapse of commuting as we knew it before.
 
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DDB

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Is there any chance that these PCs and sets could be put back in service should a full timetable be reintroduced before May?
I wonder how far off the finishing the things needed to support the planned new zero HST timetable are. Given it was originally planned for December just gone but has had to be slightly postponed they could be ready to go straight to the new timetable before the standard May timetable chageover date if they had to, due to a sudden hugh increase in demand.
 

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