Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[ijmad]

I'm expecting, eventually, not immediately, an increase in patronage of the Central Line north of Stratford by people in places like Hainault and Epping using it to access the Elizabeth Line. Similarly, at the other end, will any residents of Ruislip abandon the Metropolitan Line for the Central Line?

It will be interesting to see if fewer people change at Tottenham Hale and Seven Sisters for the Victoria Line, changing instead at Liverpool Street for the Elizabeth.

In my neck of the woods, there should be decreased pressure on the Jubilee line which will be nice. Before covid the crowing levels between Canada Water and Canary Wharf were getting pretty bad, and Canada Water was being regularly overwhelmed. It's approaching those levels again now. I think enough passengers might switch to changing Whitechapel that Canada Water will get a a good number of extra years before it needs a radical capacity enhancement. There should also be some effect on London Bridge and Cannon Street as many from the South East who take trains into central London only to head back out to Canary Wharf will now be able to change at Abbey Wood. Passenger numbers at Cannon Street may drop quite significantly.

So are the Crossrail platforms at Abbey Wood fully accessible then (from street to train) even though the Southeastern ones aren't?

Platforms are accessible but the trains don't have level boarding.

 

[samulih]

^yes, is that not the Crossrail idea too, being accessible to all.

 

[Mikey C]

Platforms are accessible but the trains don't have level boarding.

Platform 4 (eastbound) is a completely new and separate platform, so why doesn't this have level boarding?

The island westbound platform 3 is shared with the Southeastern platform 2, but surely there's a way to raise one side up?

 

[JaJaWa]

Abbey Wood has the wrong on. It’s step free to trai, but it shows step free to platfor.

Originally it was

The new stations between Paddington and Abbey Wood have all been designed to provide level boarding with the new Elizabeth line trains. The platforms at the Heathrow stations are also at the same height to provide level boarding. At the other stations along the Elizabeth line customers may need assistance to access the train, with staff on hand to deploy boarding ramps between the platform and the train.

which then became

Nine of the 10 new stations (when fully open) plus Heathrow will have step free access from street to trains. At Custom House station, wheelchair users should board the fifth carriage of Elizabeth line trains for level access.

and

At Abbey Wood station some customers may want to use a manual boarding ramp to board Elizabeth line services.

Sounds like the Abbey Wood platforms aren't at completely the right level

 

[ijmad]

Does anyone know why that happened? Was there a mistake, or perhaps is it something to do with ground settling or something causing the trackbed to slightly change levels? I guess it must be a lot harder to deliver level boarding in an outside station vs one completely built in an underground concrete box or bored tunnel.

 

[Acton1991]

Central line in-car diagrams have been updated with ‘line’ - I thought this went against their guidelines… strange

 

[ijmad]

Central line in-car diagrams have been updated with ‘line’ - I thought this went against their guidelines… strange

No, entirely the opposite.

It's always supposed to be "Elizabeth line", never just "Elizabeth", which is why people are getting so confused because the other tube lines don't get named as "... line", so we get this confusing situation where it's 'Jubilee' but 'Elizabeth line'. This is because the EL is a mode switch like the Overground, not an Underground line name.

Personally I don't think the average travelling joe/jane public gives a hoot about whether it's a mode or a line most of the time if it's a train on wheels, so long as it gets them to their destination. The only place the modal distinction is useful is when there's a different service level expectation. Busses and trams certainly have a different service level expectation than a tube line, Overground is questionable (although in some places it might only be 2tph, but that's also true on the tube in some places at the edge as well). Same with EL.

When the Overground gets its line names (as Mayor Khan said they would) I wonder if we'll continue to see 'Overground' on the tube map or the line names themselves. Current guidance would suggest the former but the latter would seem far more useful.

 

[Dstock7080]

Central line in-car diagrams have been updated with ‘line’ - I thought this went against their guidelines… strange

If it was a Line name rather than a new mode, it would be placed alphabetically at the top

 

[Tim_UK]

Indeed - Is Canary Wharf DLR station even the closest?

It's not that far. Down the escalator into the shopping centre and then you can go over the road or under the road depend how many levels you go down. There might be a quicker way that wasn't open/sign posted.

 

[Kite159]

Platform 4 (eastbound) is a completely new and separate platform, so why doesn't this have level boarding?

The island westbound platform 3 is shared with the Southeastern platform 2, but surely there's a way to raise one side up?

At Abbey Wood?

South Eastern have one island platform and Crossrail have a separate island platform. There is no platform sharing.

 

[Acton1991]

If it was a Line name rather than a new mode, it would be placed alphabetically at the top

Exactly my point - we all know it's a train instead of a tube (because we're interested in this topic). But a lot of the public don't - and this is what's confusing when it's placed alongside tube lines that don't have line.

It just looks messy.

 

[ijmad]

Indeed - Is Canary Wharf DLR station even the closest?

West India Quay is probably closer and Poplar might be more useful once they build the bridge

Exactly my point - we all know it's a train instead of a tube (because we're interested in this topic). But a lot of the public don't - and this is what's confusing when it's placed alongside tube lines that don't have line.

It just looks messy.

Compare this with Paris which makes no distinction between the RER and the Metro:



Essentially I think TfL have made a right hash of this (perhaps as a result of political interference from the previous Mayor), and it'll continue to bite them especially if they ever build Crossrail 2 or bring Thameslink under the modal brand (which i wish they'd do).

 

[JaJaWa]

No, entirely the opposite.

It's always supposed to be "Elizabeth line", never just "Elizabeth", which is why people are getting so confused because the other tube lines don't get named as "... line", so we get this confusing situation where it's 'Jubilee' but 'Elizabeth line'. This is because the EL is a mode switch like the Overground, not an Underground line name.

Not sure which definition of 'always' you are using...

Anyway – all of these signs are wrong. The signage standard says that "line" should be added to the other lines when appearing alongside Elizabeth line on the Tube Map for consistency, and on line diagrams they should all appear without "line" (presumably also for consistency without having to replace every single line diagram to change the other lines to "line"):
View attachment 113689
View attachment 113690
Credit: TfL

 

[TheDon88]

Anyway – all of these signs are wrong. The signage standard says that "line" should be added to the other lines when appearing alongside Elizabeth line on the Tube Map for consistency, and on line diagrams they should all appear without "line" (presumably also for consistency without having to replace every single line diagram to change the other lines to "line"):
View attachment 113689
View attachment 113690
Credit: TfL

@JaJaWa, is there a link to the document / presentation with these guidelines? I can't seem to find them in the documents on the TfL website

 

[JaJaWa]

@JaJaWa, is there a link to the document / presentation with these guidelines? I can't seem to find them in the documents on the TfL website

They come from a Freedom of Information request to TfL (the 4 returned slides attached)

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Exactly my point - we all know it's a train instead of a tube (because we're interested in this topic). But a lot of the public don't - and this is what's confusing when it's placed alongside tube lines that don't have line.

It just looks messy.

And also it's not like the normal Underground lines don't have stations or even tracks shared with National Rail either (Metropolitan or Bakerloo line, anyone?), so to be honest, I don't actually see why the Elizabeth line couldn't be branded like a Tube line too. After Sub-surface and Deep-level tube it would just be a new third category, RER-style or whatever. The average passenger is not gonna care all that much.

 

[eldomtom2]

And also it's not like the normal Underground lines don't have stations or even tracks shared with National Rail either (Metropolitan or Bakerloo line, anyone?), so to be honest, I don't actually see why the Elizabeth line couldn't be branded like a Tube line too. After Sub-surface and Deep-level tube it would just be a new third category, RER-style or whatever. The average passenger is not gonna care all that much.

That same line of logic can be applied (quite fairly) to the Overground as well...

 

[AM9]

That same line of logic can be applied (quite fairly) to the Overground as well...

This is surely a transitional thing. When the Central (london Electirc Railway/District Railway/Metropolitan Railway) went under the LPTB aegis, did they suddernly become the XYZ 'Line' or was it straight to just 'XYZ'?

 

[Taunton]

Indeed - Is Canary Wharf DLR station even the closest?

No, the closest DLR station to Canary Wharf Crossrail is West India Quay. It's probably less distance than Waterloo Jubilee line to Waterloo Bakerloo. It's also quite obviously right in front of you, unlike Canary Wharf DLR where you have to know your way through the shopping centre.

I'm surprised there's no big Crossrail sign on the west end of the station, only the prominent Big Easy restaurant (which is actually in the Crossrail station building) signage.

 

[James H]

Essentially I think TfL have made a right hash of this (perhaps as a result of political interference from the previous Mayor)

Exactly this - the whole Elizabeth Line thing was entirely Boris Johnson's doing.

 

[theking]

To the average punter its probably more like a tube line than national rail anyway doo, underground/tfl managed stations, no toilets on the trains, longitudinal seating, roundels etc etc

 

[JaJaWa]

No, the closest DLR station to Canary Wharf Crossrail is West India Quay. It's probably less distance than Waterloo Jubilee line to Waterloo Bakerloo. It's also quite obviously right in front of you, unlike Canary Wharf DLR where you have to know your way through the shopping centre.

I'm surprised there's no big Crossrail sign on the west end of the station, only the prominent Big Easy restaurant (which is actually in the Crossrail station building) signage.

I believe the Elizabeth line station also interchanges (or was planned to) with Poplar DLR

 

[Mikey C]

At Abbey Wood?

South Eastern have one island platform and Crossrail have a separate island platform. There is no platform sharing.

My mistake, I hadn't realised it had been rebuilt in that way. Which makes the lack of full accessibility even less acceptable

 

[Lifelong]

I believe the Elizabeth line station also interchanges (or was planned to) with Poplar DLR

I walked this a couple of weeks ago and it's not very far. There's mention of an extension to the Poplar station bridge in this thread which will make it very doable. At the moment it's not very obvious TBH because of the building site you have to walk around...I then had to walk to Canary Wharf Jubilee Line and that's not particularly simple either. WI Quay did look much closer to me

 

[Basil Jet]

That same line of logic can be applied (quite fairly) to the Overground as well...

I think the point of the distinction between the Underground and Overground is that Underground makes a promise of frequent electric services to Central London. The Overground largely fails to deliver on that promise, so to brand LO as part of LU would dilute and damage the LU reputation.

 

[Horizon22]

That same line of logic can be applied (quite fairly) to the Overground as well...

A lot of people think the Overground is a tube line though...The similarity of TfL branding and a distinct style have led people to think that it is, especially when they just see a train turn up that looks similar to a Tube train and that the majority of the Underground network is above ground anyway. Most people won't care about the sort of distinction, however it is slightly more relevant when a large portion of it is on NR metals and quite some considerable distance away from London.

 

[Nottingham59]

To the average punter its probably more like a tube line than national rail anyway

I think the main time it will become important will be ticketing, especially for cross-London travel. I'll expect to see more NR tickets being sold without the Maltese Cross or routed "not underground", forcing people to travel via Farringdon.

 

[Kite159]

Regarding West India Quay DLR to Canary Wharf Crossrail, this is a photo I took back in January showing how close they are (I was standing on the bridge at the North-western corner of the building).



Only time West India Quay might not be useful is when you want a Lewisham bound train as those don't call there.

 

[ijmad]

Only time West India Quay might not be useful is when you want a Lewisham bound train as those don't call there.

When the new DLR stock arrives they're going to extend the Stratford to Canary Wharf service to be Stratford to Lewisham all day, and those will call at West India Quay.

I walked this a couple of weeks ago and it's not very far. There's mention of an extension to the Poplar station bridge in this thread which will make it very doable. At the moment it's not very obvious TBH because of the building site you have to walk around...I then had to walk to Canary Wharf Jubilee Line and that's not particularly simple either. WI Quay did look much closer to me

Yep, part of the North Quay development:

In the latest plans the bridge proposal has been kept, introducing a new walkway that should enable you to walk directly from Poplar High street all the way south through North Quay and Crossrail Place into Canary Wharf.

The two bridges don't line up but my impression from the plans is that the plaza will be at that level allowing quite an easy walk.

 

[AlbertBeale]

A lot of people think the Overground is a tube line though...The similarity of TfL branding and a distinct style have led people to think that it is, especially when they just see a train turn up that looks similar to a Tube train and that the majority of the Underground network is above ground anyway. Most people won't care about the sort of distinction, however it is slightly more relevant when a large portion of it is on NR metals and quite some considerable distance away from London.

On the contrary (in my experience) - most occasional users I know think of the Overground as part of the mainline railway system. Partly because long-time Londoners have always referred colloquially to "the overground" to mean local London "mainline trains" to distinguish them from the Underground for rail journeys within London. (Hence the silliness of branding some of the "overground" as the Overground - I now sometimes hear people specifying "with a capital O" when that's specifically what they mean - I've done it myself sometimes with people who I know have historically used the generic "overground" description.)

In fact, someone on a thread on this website - just the other day - when trying to explain where on Marylebone station they were picked up for an alleged ticketing infringement, used the Underground/overground distinction when explaining that the incident took place in connection with the Chiltern services, not the Bakerloo line.

I certainly agree with those suggesting that Crossrail and Thameslink should have some joint modal brand (like the RER in Paris), since they have somewhat similar functions to one another - and to the RER. But I doubt that the Overground sharing the same brand would be appropriate.