London Northwestern Class 730s

RealTrains07

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A 730 was moved from Old Dalby to Crewe today, top and tailed by some 37s and barrier wagons. Saw it on my daily walk reversing at Melton Mowbray. Didn't know what it was tbh when I first saw it. Dark body with orange ends.

730002

thats now 2 down and 34 to go
 
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Wyrleybart

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The WMT and LNR business units will move further away from each other in months/years to come, the 730/0's will stay in their own business unit and the 730/1's and 2's in theirs. 350's will continue to cross over at least in the short term.

That is how I perceive it when they were ordered.
730/0 = 3 car Birmingham Cross City replacing 323
730/1 = 5 car
730/2 = 5 car

Retaining Siemens 350/1 350/3 and 350/4

I am assuming the 730/1 and 730/2 are identical under the vinyl wraps and paint, but the franchise was supposed to split into "Central" and "Silverlink" leaving both business units with 4 car Siemens and 5 car Aventras, but with "Central" replacing the 323s with 730/0s.


Fun times ahead
 

Bletchleyite

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I am assuming the 730/1 and 730/2 are identical under the vinyl wraps and paint, but the franchise was supposed to split into "Central" and "Silverlink" leaving both business units with 4 car Siemens and 5 car Aventras, but with "Central" replacing the 323s with 730/0s.

It wasn't "Central" and "Silverlink", but rather WMR and LNR, the latter would have all the 350s and 5-car Aventras. 3+2 for south WCML locals, 2+2 for fast services and Liverpools, 350s for everything else on LNR including the Crewes (8 car).
 

Wyrleybart

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It wasn't "Central" and "Silverlink", but rather WMR and LNR, the latter would have all the 350s and 5-car Aventras. 3+2 for south WCML locals, 2+2 for fast services and Liverpools, 350s for everything else on LNR including the Crewes (8 car).
Are you suggesting that WMR aren't keeping any 350s then ?
They have to because a number of platforms are not long enough for five car Aventras surely ?
As I said WMR (Central) have 730/0s, 5 car 730 and 350s. LNR have 5 car 730 and 4 car 350.
 

Bletchleyite

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Are you suggesting that WMR aren't keeping any 350s then ?
They have to because a number of platforms are not long enough for five car Aventras surely ?
As I said WMR (Central) have 730/0s, 5 car 730 and 350s. LNR have 5 car 730 and 4 car 350.

You're still thinking "Central". WMR isn't Central Trains, it's much smaller. It's more like Merseyrail of the West Midlands plus the Herefords. There is no reason WMR would have any 5-car Aventras at all.

They might have ended up with some 350s depending on who ended up operating the Rugeleys and Wolves/Cov locals which 350s presently run on, though, or those services might have just been LNR-operated, in the manner that not all Merseyside PTE area services are operated by Merseyrail Electrics Ltd.

However, the Rugeley-Euston through operation (unlikely to return) made a right mess of it all, and I'd now venture that the split is very unlikely to ever happen.
 

Mordac

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You're still thinking "Central". WMR isn't Central Trains, it's much smaller. It's more like Merseyrail of the West Midlands plus the Herefords. There is no reason WMR would have any 5-car Aventras at all.

They might have ended up with some 350s depending on who ended up operating the Rugeleys and Wolves/Cov locals which 350s presently run on, though, or those services might have just been LNR-operated, in the manner that not all Merseyside PTE area services are operated by Merseyrail Electrics Ltd.

However, the Rugeley-Euston through operation (unlikely to return) made a right mess of it all, and I'd now venture that the split is very unlikely to ever happen.
Don't forget the Shrewsbury and the Snow Hill stuff!
 

Merle Haggard

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However, the Rugeley-Euston through operation (unlikely to return) made a right mess of it all, and I'd now venture that the split is very unlikely to ever happen.

You're absolutely right about the lack of success, shall we say; but they were introduced to fulfil the promise of 'Through London services from Walsall'. How do they get out of that?
 

Bletchleyite

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Don't forget the Shrewsbury and the Snow Hill stuff!

Shrewsbury, yes, I forgot about that.

The Snow Hill stuff surely falls under the 'merseyrail of the west midlands' category?

It does indeed. It's diesel, but it's a self contained "metro style" local service within the West Midlands.

You're absolutely right about the lack of success, shall we say; but they were introduced to fulfil the promise of 'Through London services from Walsall'. How do they get out of that?

Franchises have effectively been abolished so any franchise commitments are now null and void. Though to be fair you could still do Walsall-London an an extension of one of the Brum terminators without messing it up too much.
 

southern442

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I believe there are plans to try all the London-Birmingham-beyond services again after HS2 although that of course could be ages.
 

Bletchleyite

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I believe there are plans to try all the London-Birmingham-beyond services again after HS2 although that of course could be ages.

To be fair the "fix" that was going to be implemented in 2020, had COVID not happened, which was going to have them "step back" at Birmingham with a 20 minute layover, would probably have largely fixed the issue, which was mainly caused by importing delays across Birmingham and excessively tight (unit and crew) diagramming.

XC is far more complex than those services were in principle, and that doesn't have anything like the same degree of issues, so you can operate very-long-distance services punctually and reliably if you just ensure there's enough slack.
 

Wyrleybart

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Franchises have effectively been abolished so any franchise commitments are now null and void. Though to be fair you could still do Walsall-London an an extension of one of the Brum terminators without messing it up too much.

But wasn't Avanti's franchise promising a Walsall - London service in the morning ?
 

Bletchleyite

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Franchises have effectively been abolished so any franchise commitments are now null and void. Though to be fair you could still do Walsall-London an an extension of one of the Brum terminators without messing it up too much.

But wasn't Avanti's franchise promising a Walsall - London service in the morning ?

Franchises are dead, so commitments made for them are meaningless. See above.
 

samuelmorris

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You're absolutely right about the lack of success, shall we say; but they were introduced to fulfil the promise of 'Through London services from Walsall'. How do they get out of that?
By not doing it. Even before the franchise system was abolished it was common for franchises to make promises that were later silently abolished without any notice to the public. Franchise agreement commitments in truth, were never really worth the paper they were written on.
 

Merle Haggard

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By not doing it. Even before the franchise system was abolished it was common for franchises to make promises that were later silently abolished without any notice to the public. Franchise agreement commitments in truth, were never really worth the paper they were written on.

Thanks; I remember the unfulfilled promises about East Midlands Airport/Parkway (even though the franchise had, in effect, been paid to provide it).
But the Walsall commitment came, I thought, from political pressure rather than being volunteered by the franchisee. The days of marginal seats affecting railway policy are presumably over, though...
 

capital12

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Surely franchise commitments were commitments to the DfT, not the public, in any case - so if the DfT were happy with them being dropped there was no real issue in franchise terms?
 

Energy

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How are they handling going from 20m to 24m? I don't think its too hard given the Pendolinos already being 24m.
 

Bletchleyite

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How are they handling going from 20m to 24m? I don't think its too hard given the Pendolinos already being 24m.

The WCML is already cleared for 24m, as you say the Pendolinos are 25 (end) and 24 (intermediate). It's only ended up a 4 x 20 railway by default, really, as for a long time all suburban EMUs were 20m, and the 350/1s were moved in from a cancelled order for SWT.
 

norbitonflyer

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Thanks; I remember the unfulfilled promises about East Midlands Airport/Parkway (even though the franchise had, in effect, been paid to provide it).
But the Walsall commitment came, I thought, from political pressure rather than being volunteered by the franchisee. The days of marginal seats affecting railway policy are presumably over, though...
...and the direct services from London to Lincoln, required by DfT in 2011 but dropped when DfT took over the franchise from National Express. It took two more changes of franchise before

The direct service would have been a real boon to my father in his eighties, as he was always deterred from making the rail journey to visit family down south (and likewise teenage grandchildren from visiting him) because of the unreliable connections, and poor facilities, at Newark. Sadly, he died a few months before the service was eventually launched, eight and a half years later, and after two more franchise changes. (I note it is currently suspended again)
 
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Chiltern006

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730002 testing somewhere between Stafford and Rugby. Full credit given where due
 

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