GTR Electrostar refurbishments: 377s and 387s

[Aictos]

I hope this refresh does not ruin the current PIS system on the 377 units.
Compared to the SWR Desiro units and the dreadful external displays on the class 700, the current 377 external and internal PIS is clear, concise and reasonably reliable.

The only dreadful thing about the Class 700 PIS displays is I wish the destination above the cab was bigger as it's too small at the moment.

Apart from that, both internal and external PIS screens on the Class 700s are clear, pretty reliable and display information such as special notices, toilets in use, how busy the service is, service information eg Tube lines etc all together so much more advanced then the Class 377s which show their age daily.

And yes I use both types on a daily basis, the only plus point of the 377s/387s (377/6s and 377/7s) is power sockets at all seats whereas on the Class 700 it's only in 1st Class.

 

[westcoaster]

There is a class 377 parked up next to the wash road at Selhurst. It has digital screens fitted throughout the 4 car unit. (Looks to be mid point and carriage ends).

 

[Southern Dvr]

There is a class 377 parked up next to the wash road at Selhurst. It has digital screens fitted throughout the 4 car unit. (Looks to be mid point and carriage ends).

That’s 377430

 

[Flinn Reed]

Will there be any changes to liveries as part of these refurbishments (exterior or interior)?

Perhaps the Southern livery might be updated to reflect the revised lime green logo? Will the Gatwick Express brand return post-covid, or could these 387s remain on Southern services (maybe allowing 377s to replace 313s?) - in which case being branded for Southern when refurbished? Or maybe GTR might even use the Thameslink/Great Northern scheme across all brands for standardisation? (Otherwise, why don't Thameslink and Great Northern have separate liveries?)

 

[RichardKing]

Will there be any changes to liveries as part of these refurbishments (exterior or interior)?

Perhaps the Southern livery might be updated to reflect the revised lime green logo? Will the Gatwick Express brand return post-covid, or could these 387s remain on Southern services (maybe allowing 377s to replace 313s?) - in which case being branded for Southern when refurbished? Or maybe GTR might even use the Thameslink/Great Northern scheme across all brands for standardisation? (Otherwise, why don't Thameslink and Great Northern have separate liveries?)

I think the 'Thank you NHS' livery on 377 111 is close to what a 377 exterior refresh would look like (obviously, minus the NHS wording).

Can't wait to see photos of 377 430's interior.

 

[387star]

Surely the opportunity could be taken to remove seats in the centre coaches

 

[OTRail]

My guess is that it will have a similar design (minus the seat types) as the 387/1s/3s and the 377/6s/7s

Can't wait to see photos of 377 430's interior.

 

[physics34]

Will there be any changes to liveries as part of these refurbishments (exterior or interior)?

Perhaps the Southern livery might be updated to reflect the revised lime green logo? Will the Gatwick Express brand return post-covid, or could these 387s remain on Southern services (maybe allowing 377s to replace 313s?) - in which case being branded for Southern when refurbished? Or maybe GTR might even use the Thameslink/Great Northern scheme across all brands for standardisation? (Otherwise, why don't Thameslink and Great Northern have separate liveries?)

No changes inside or out, livery or colour scheme wise for 377430 anyway. Its basically just an electrical refit to standardise the fleet. Electronic advert boards, new pis, new cab camera (and light) and plug sockets.

Ive called for standardised liveries for a while, for example one livery for all non intercity style services,with maybe just the TOCs logo and franchise name being specified.

Also id have got rid of southerns awful astroterf style seat covers but the company seem to love em even though they get warn and dirty quickly

I think the 'Thank you NHS' livery on 377 111 is close to what a 377 exterior refresh would look like (obviously, minus the NHS wording).

Can't wait to see photos of 377 430's interior.

Dont get too excited

 

[foggy69]

The only dreadful thing about the Class 700 PIS displays is I wish the destination above the cab was bigger as it's too small at the moment.

Apart from that, both internal and external PIS screens on the Class 700s are clear, pretty reliable and display information such as special notices, toilets in use, how busy the service is, service information eg Tube lines etc all together so much more advanced then the Class 377s which show their age daily.

And yes I use both types on a daily basis, the only plus point of the 377s/387s (377/6s and 377/7s) is power sockets at all seats whereas on the Class 700 it's only in 1st Class.

The exterior screens on the 700's are woeful, the screen on the front is way to small and the side screens are also small, and if memory serves me right, just state the destination. The interior screens are great when they are working, but quite often they just say listen to announcements.
The screen on the front of the 377 is much larger and the side screens give the destination and calling pattern.

 

[Aictos]

The exterior screens on the 700's are woeful, the screen on the front is way to small and the side screens are also small, and if memory serves me right, just state the destination. The interior screens are great when they are working, but quite often they just say listen to announcements.
The screen on the front of the 377 is much larger and the side screens give the destination and calling pattern.

I travel and use both fleets daily so I can say safely that only the front destination on the Class 700s are too small because the ones on the side are big enough to read from a passing train which you're right only show the destination.

As to claiming that the interior screens often don't work as they just say listen to announcements, all I can say is you must be travelling on a lot of disrupted services or when there's booked engineering works because I've been using the Class 700 daily for over two years now and not once have I encountered what you claim in fact the most common problem I've found with the fleet is idiots forcing the accessible toilet door open so it jams.

I can't say that the screens are bigger on the 377s so yes while you get the stopping pattern on the side, you don't get any travel information eg what service the Underground is operating etc which I hope (I'm not sure as I don't encounter the class 707 fleet) do on the Class 700s so I see the 707s as a much needed upgrade above anything the SE has.

 

[Fincra5]

Will there be any changes to liveries as part of these refurbishments (exterior or interior)?

Perhaps the Southern livery might be updated to reflect the revised lime green logo? Will the Gatwick Express brand return post-covid, or could these 387s remain on Southern services (maybe allowing 377s to replace 313s?) - in which case being branded for Southern when refurbished? Or maybe GTR might even use the Thameslink/Great Northern scheme across all brands for standardisation? (Otherwise, why don't Thameslink and Great Northern have separate liveries?)

Whilst I'd love a return of "Network Southeast" for all London Commuter Services (etc)... Like Below
There's nothing wrong with the current SN livery. At the moment, it would be a complete waste of "Taxpayers" money from the DfT. SN only recently refreshed the outer livery (after 10years-ish).

 

[RichardKing]

No changes inside or out, livery or colour scheme wise for 377430 anyway. Its basically just an electrical refit to standardise the fleet. Electronic advert boards, new pis, new cab camera (and light) and plug sockets.

Will the announcements remain the same? I ask because of the shift towards informal announcements that TOCs seem to be making, mainly on platforms. For instance, the Phil Sayer announcements were far clearer and flowed a lot better than what we have now.

The current announcements on 377s are just right IMO, especially when compared with other stock. The 387 version seems unnaturally slowed down.

Dont get too excited

 

[bramling]

Whilst I'd love a return of "Network Southeast" for all London Commuter Services (etc)... Like Below
There's nothing wrong with the current SN livery. At the moment, it would be a complete waste of "Taxpayers" money from the DfT. SN only recently refreshed the outer livery (after 10years-ish).


View attachment 88626

The Southern livery has certainly dated well. It still looks pretty fresh and sleek (IMO).

 

[Recessio]

Whilst I'd love a return of "Network Southeast" for all London Commuter Services (etc)... Like Below
There's nothing wrong with the current SN livery. At the moment, it would be a complete waste of "Taxpayers" money from the DfT. SN only recently refreshed the outer livery (after 10years-ish).


View attachment 88626

Not sure that meets disability legislation due to not having high-contrast doors!

I agree though, it would be a waste to relivery trains that don't need it. I do hope London commuter services get one livery in the future though, that livery being London Overground...

...plug sockets ... Dont get too excited

I'm very excited about plug sockets!

 

[03_179]

Whilst I'd love a return of "Network Southeast" for all London Commuter Services (etc)... Like Below
There's nothing wrong with the current SN livery. At the moment, it would be a complete waste of "Taxpayers" money from the DfT. SN only recently refreshed the outer livery (after 10years-ish).


View attachment 88626

That Looks AWESOME - 377/387 in NSE, how about the 700 & 717s.


Actually 395s NSE ... Yes please.

 

[AM9]

The Southern livery has certainly dated well. It still looks pretty fresh and sleek (IMO).

I agree, green seems to be a good choice for EMUs, like the LM scheme. blue on the other hand looks good on day one but soon looks tatty.

 

[RichJF]

I agree, green seems to be a good choice for EMUs, like the LM scheme. blue on the other hand looks good on day one but soon looks tatty.

Case in point. When the Southern-liveried 377163/164 are coupled with SE 377/5s, the Southern units look much more modern!

 

[physics34]

377430 ran on a test train yesterday Selhurst Depot - London Bridge - Selhurst Depot. 5Z50

 

[Class455]

Great to hear that the first unit is being tested, looking forward to seeing the interior!

 

[physics34]

Great to hear that the first unit is being tested, looking forward to seeing the interior!

Like i said to someone else dont get too excited. I think its plug sockets, new PIS and that's about it.

377401 looks like the next one to be done

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Like i said to someone else dont get too excited. I think its plug sockets, new PIS and that's about it.

377401 looks like the next one to be done

That’s a shame, I rather like the PIS as fitted to the 357/375 and 377/1-5 (also features on ScotRail 318/320.3), it has quite a classy font.

 

[physics34]

That’s a shame, I rather like the PIS as fitted to the 357/375 and 377/1-5 (also features on ScotRail 318/320.3), it has quite a classy font.

we'll see as there is very little info. There are definately new screen inside, but they may just be for adverts.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

We talk about the Electrostar PIS being good but it isn't, visually impaired people who struggle with it due to the fast moving nature of it the orange on black font becomes a blur.
During a recent video with Geoff Marshall and a inclusion & mobility manager for RDG it showed the new Class 720s, 745s & 755s PIS is great because it allows VI people to make out shapes with a black text on white background screen, it doesn't move quickly as the amount of space on the screen allows for the text to hang around longer and all in all makes for a better PRM experience.
The question is have Southern spent a decent amount on these lovely displays...probably not, just another botched job with another LCD display attached to the dividing panels but hey its an improvement I guess.

 

[387star]

Like i said to someone else dont get too excited. I think its plug sockets, new PIS and that's about it.

377401 looks like the next one to be done

Surely the 3 plus 2 seating could be reduced to a more spacious layout in this new world

 

[foggy69]

We talk about the Electrostar PIS being good but it isn't, visually impaired people who struggle with it due to the fast moving nature of it the orange on black font becomes a blur.
During a recent video with Geoff Marshall and a inclusion & mobility manager for RDG it showed the new Class 720s, 745s & 755s PIS is great because it allows VI people to make out shapes with a black text on white background screen, it doesn't move quickly as the amount of space on the screen allows for the text to hang around longer and all in all makes for a better PRM experience.
The question is have Southern spent a decent amount on these lovely displays...probably not, just another botched job with another LCD display attached to the dividing panels but hey its an improvement I guess.

I haven't seen the 720 or 745/755 screens, but I really hope that the new 377 PIS is nowhere as bad as the ones installed on the refreshed WMT 323 units. I don't know why but I found them really difficult to read.

 

[OTRail]

I haven't seen the 720 or 745/755 screens, but I really hope that the new 377 PIS is nowhere as bad as the ones installed on the refreshed WMT 323 units. I don't know why but I found them really difficult to read.

My guess is it’ll just be like the LNR 350s with the display screens on the glass panels by the doors.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

I haven't seen the 720 or 745/755 screens, but I really hope that the new 377 PIS is nowhere as bad as the ones installed on the refreshed WMT 323 units. I don't know why but I found them really difficult to read.

Here you go Geoffs Video and a chat about PRM

 

[AAO]

Would be nice if the class 377 refurbishment retains its current seats but optimise its for a 2x2 layout across all coaches and provide more 2 seaters. Would also be helpful if they improved first class because its abysmal compared to other TOC's. Secondly, but most importantly, why is southern doing this massive refurbishment on relatively modern stock when they have old class 455 cattle carriages running around the network that are in bad need of replacing. If they are not going to replace it, which is clearly the case at the moment, then refurbish it with a modern interior and put 2X2 seating, arm rests, tables, coat hooks, luggage racks, air-con, plugs and please please CHANGE THE MOTOR. The acceleration is awfully slow and bumpy. Literally just shudders the whole train when pulling away from the station and when putting the acceleration into neutral. Horrible ride!

Also do we know when Class 377 430 is expected to come out. Its been in the depot for refurbishing for quite some time now and I believe its the first 377 for refurbishing with the track light, sockets etc.

One last thing: I cannot stand the southern livery they should take this opportunity to change it.

 

[Energy]

Would also be helpful if they improved first class because its abysmal compared to other TOC's.

I would remove first class personally. I don't see much point of it on these services.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

One last thing: I cannot stand the southern livery they should take this opportunity to change it.

To be honest, I quite like the Southern livery and I find it looks reasonably smart. One which I really don't like, however, is the new white Northern livery which just looks awfully bland and uninspiring.